Trans is a sin?

[RoryM]

Why do Christians assume transsexualism is a sin when it's nothing more than a medical condition? I've read the Bible and the closest thing I've come across to transsexualism is eunuchs and the Bible has mostly positive things to say. The Bible makes it clear that eunuchs can still be followers of Christ and also inherit the kingdom of heaven like any of His other children. My aunt, grandma, and maybe my mother think that it is a sin and definitely in the case of the first two is from Satan, yet I have read the Bible to see if God has anything to say on the subject and there really isn't anything. They argue that 'God doesn't make mistakes' but would you use that against someone born with a missing limb who wanted a prostetic? A person with a mental illness who is seeking treatment? They wouldn't, they would be completely supportive of getting medical help and yet it is somehow different with gender dysphoria which has been a documented medical condition for decades.

Sorry for the mini-rant. I am a Christian and my faith hasn't waned but I found that with this condition I don't really have a problem with God as much as with other Christians. Any advice?

[Deborah]

To them it's the same as homosexuality which is explicitly condemned in both the old and new testaments.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

[FTMax]

Yes, agree with Deborah.

A lot of cis people don't seem to understand that gender identity and sexual orientation are entirely separate things, likely due to the close association of the trans community with the wider LGBQ+ community. I would personally not worry too much about what other people have to say. You should be focused on reading your Bible, growing in your relationship with God, and finding peace about the path that you are on.

Not sure where you are located or what options are available, but you could consider joining a different church. There are a lot of options that are explicitly affirming/accepting these days, and many more that are but don't advertise it.

[Michelle_P]

These are the same people who would claim that a medical problem is God's punishment for a sin.

John 9:3 His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.

They're wrong, of course.  'Buffet' Christians, taking what reinforces their belief systems from the texts and ignoring the rest, using religion to justify their actions and beliefs.

Some folks seem to forget this bit.  It might be important...

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew 22:37-39)

But it is interesting that they feel fit to judge others...

James 2:3-4 And if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, "You sit here in a good place," while you say to the poor man, "You stand over there," or, "Sit down at my feet," have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

Matthew 7:1-29"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...

[GlobalPessimum]

Yes, it's a sin.

Not according to what Jesus said, but according to everything that the fathers of the church have said ever since Jesus ascended to the heavens. And even if they didn't say anything about transitionign explicitly, it's really the same thing. Religious doctrine is not proscriptive like secular law, instead in religious doctrine something is forbidden if it isn't explicitly allowed (and many things are forbidden explicitly). So unless you find a very strong precedent of the fathers of the church accepting and condoning transition (which you will not) then you can be assured that it's a sin.

Of course all this depends on what church you follow. Some are more tolerant than others. Most however are not at all. And for sure it's very hard to follow Jesus' word unless you're part of the church, so if you disagree with the church your only alternative is to go off and worship on your own.

Also, I don't believe you can pick and choose only what you like from what the chruch says Jesus was about. Because religious doctrine builds on itself. If the church says that it's not ok to be gay, and you feel you disagree with them because you're gay, but that's the only thing you disagree with... tough. You can't just follow the bits you like. That's not a church, that's a mob. A really big part of being a Christian, for most denominations, is to listen to what the people say who have authority in the church. It's a flock, remember? There's shepherds. You do what they say, or you're a lost sheep, wandering the wilderness on your own.

Btw, all of the above is what I learned from being born in a christian family, and that's the reason why I left when I realised I had to transition. Because I could not find it in me to reconcile the teachings of the church with what I know about myself. And I could not accept that I could keep loving Christ, but be apart from the church- his church. I could not accept that I could be a solitary Christian, believing in my own god, and drifting further and further away from the fold. It was either sever everything, or stay (and keep from transitioning). For me there was no rhyme or reason in having my very own sollipsistic faith. So I gave up and went away.

Note that there's a ray of light: the church accepts the trans person, they don't accept the transition. You can stay and get a lot of support to be who the church wants you to be. Or you can leave and get no support to be who you want to be.

Edit:

Sorry for the mini-rant. I am a Christian and my faith hasn't waned but I found that with this condition I don't really have a problem with God as much as with other Christians.

That's what I'm saying: god is the other christians. Exactly what god are you following when it's a god only you know?

[GlobalPessimum]

To them it's the same as homosexuality which is explicitly condemned in both the old and new testaments.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

Jesus never said a word about men sleeping with men. And anything in the bible that might be interpreted as god hating gays, well, Jesus came to fix the Law and his word overrules it.

On the other hand, Paul did have a few choice words to say about men sleeping with men, and so did all of the fathers of the church after him. And that is why, even in this enlightened day and age, christians the world over will hold hands and chant to pray the gay away.

Btw, this is an example of the kind of thing I mention above: you seem to believe that being gay is wrong in the eyes of god, but being trans is not.

Well, you can't mix and match. If it's wrong to act out on gay desires it's because the church says that it's wrong, from Paul onwards. And the church says transitioning is wrong, so either they're both wrong or the church is wrong. Either your'e a christian and you listen to what the church says and act accordingly, or you're something else entirely and don't belong in the church (as I did not).

[Deborah]

You misunderstand what I believe. What I do believe is that the Bible is mythology and that Christianity as it exists  is superstition.

At the same time, I am very familiar with what the Bible says having studied it a graduate-level seminary.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

[RobynD]

Let's not forget the Bible is a set of books not one book. Whether you believe it is accurate and authoritative is another question all Christians should ask themselves and many do. You absolutely can be Christian and not believe that. You choose your identification, nobody does it for you.

Then there is the matter of the original intent of the authors and the cultural context from which the "clobber" verses were written.

Based on that, my conclusion is that Trans is in no way a sin.

[Devlyn]

Judging others is also a sin unless I'm mistaken. I wouldn't pay too much attention to them. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[GlobalPessimum]

You misunderstand what I believe. What I do believe is that the Bible is mythology and that Christianity as it exists  is superstition.

At the same time, I am very familiar with what the Bible says having studied it a graduate-level seminary.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

In that case, I apologise for misunderstanding you.

[Deborah]

In that case, I apologise.

:-).  No problem.  My beliefs have been convoluted and evolving quickly over the past two years as I attempt to unscrew my head from its previous twisted state of trying to reconcile two irreconcilable states of being.


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

[Dee Marshall]

With the caveat that I am not a Christian and haven't been one for almost half a century I will say this, those who say "God does not make mistakes" are setting themselves up as arbiters of what Deity would considering a mistake.

[Michelle_P]

God doesn't make mistakes. I'm the way I am deliberately, a gift from the Creator. 

What we do with the Creators gifts is the real test of ourselves and others. Do we bury the gift, in spite of the obvious warning signs, pain and discomfort, that this brings us?  The Parable of the Talents is pretty explicit that burying these things brings on problems. I take that parable to heart and embrace my gift, growing it, so that at the end of my days I can return it many fold.

Now, my gift may upset others, including religious leaders and those who claim to be faithful. They judge me, and they cast their stones. They fail the Creators test.

Only the Creator has the power to truly create. We know through medical research that our transgender natures have biological causes that appear to be set before birth. Being transgender is therefor a result of a creative act, manifested physically. Satan can only tempt, and does not have the power of creation. Those who claim that our transgender nature is evil, coming from Satan, are therefore guilty of the Manichaean Heresy, a grave sin assigning Satan creative powers, and will be rewarded accordingly.

12 years with Jesuit teachers... [emoji12]


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[LizK]

I read this yesterday

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/using-bible-lgbti-people-irresponsible/#gs.UtbodtU

Love it...spot on

"Christian Pastor says we don't use Bible to understand sexual orientation for the same reasons we don't use 2,000-year old medical books for health guidance"

Liz

[purplewuggybird]

I am a devout Christian, and also trans. My interpretation of the conservative evangelical haters is that their God and Bible is flawed. God told us to respect each other and live by positive values like Jesus did. Just because it didn't happen in the Bible doesn't mean we should break from Christian values to hate on other people. If they were coming at it from a perspective of love I would have different thoughts.


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[stephaniec]

Dear sweet Lord forgive me for I have sinned .People can think what they want ,, but don't even think of taking my Lord from me.

[EmilyMK03]

Why do Christians assume transsexualism is a sin when it's nothing more than a medical condition?

Because, quite simply, most Christians don't know that it's a medical condition.  And really, how could they know that?  What would motivate them to do the necessary research to find that out?  No, it's much easier to just assume that it's some kind of twisted sin.

It doesn't help that the media doesn't mention the underlying biological causes whatsoever.  Instead the focus is always on celebrities and bathrooms.  The science is too complicated for 60 sec news clips.

[Artesia]

It's been a while since I've read the bible in it's entirety, but wasn't there a story in it about a Christian hiding themselves as a woman servant for a time?

Also:
Not just a legendary female warrior but also a Roman Catholic saint, Joan was but a girl when visions of the Archangel Michael drove her to approach the military of France's King Charles VII and offer to assist in his efforts to expel the occupying English in the later days of the Hundred Years' War. Though initially mocked by these men and soldiers, Joan was taken seriously once her influence ended the Siege of Orleans in nine days.
By age 17, she played a key role in commanding France's army, and her forte in the military seemed to be for strategy over slaying. The French owed much to Joan, and yet it was the Burgundians, Frenchmen loyal to England, that led to her demise. She was captured in 1430 and, despite several escape attempts and rescue efforts, Joan was put on trial by the English for heresy and cross-dressing. Her visions were now derided, and her armor called an atrocity. She was convicted, sentenced to death, and burned alive at the stake.
Even after her death, her strategies are said to have influenced the French battle model. More than 25 years later, the Catholic Church revisited Joan's trial for heresy, overturning the charges against her in a case of too little too late. It would be more than 460 years before Pope Benedict XV declared Joan a saint.

A sainted Transgender person.

[Deborah]

As stated above you can believe almost anything you want to believe and find a Church to support those beliefs. 

To me, this flies in the face of the notion that there is a single Holy Spirit of the Trinitarian God that is guiding these Churches.  By definition, that Holy Spirit must be of a single consistent mind.  What we see exhibited in Christendom on the other hand is a claimed Holy Spirit of diverse and contradictory minds.  If you can reconcile this with the idea of one God then just find a Church that agrees with your notions.

If you want to know what the overwhelming vast majority of the Church from the beginning has thought of men transitioning into women then those writings are available going way back to second century.  In those writings there is absolutely nothing but overwhelming condemnation and extreme bile rivaling the worst of anything that is written today.

When you strip away everything else, that is why those in the Church condemn us.  It's the same condemnation that they have been speaking for 1900 years.

If God actually does not condemn us, assuming he exists at all, it would be easy enough for him to say something, to tell his followers that they are wrongfully condemning other Christians.  But there has been only silence on this.  Why?

You can conclude one of three things.

- God does condemn us.
- God has willingly allowed his Church to wrongfully persecute and kill us now for 2000 years.
- The Jewish, Christian, Muslim God is a mythological superstition existing only in humanity's collective mind.

Given the nature of God as defined by the Church and in the Bible, which of the above three conclusions makes the best sense?


It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not.
André Gide, Autumn Leaves

[Eva Marie]

I grappled with this question when I accepted who I am, and I spent a lot of time thinking and praying about it and researching what I could find written about it.

My conclusion? First - there is a biological basis for transsexualism. Second - God made me the way He wants me to be for His purpose. God looks at my heart to know the kind of person that I am while everyone else looks at the outside and makes their own judgement (1 Samuel 16:7). Consider the verses concerning the eunuchs - God is clearly OK with them so it stands to reason that he is OK with me (Matthew 19:12, Isaiah 56:3-5).

So the question goes back to why the church is so virulently against us when God does not seem to be so? 

I can think of many reasons but the main ones to me seem to be a combination of the desires of mans heart combined with the fact people simply don't read their bible and study it's verses in the proper context  - instead, they rely on what they hear from the pulpit and they use cherry picked verses out of context to condemn what they "know" is a sin without any scriptural basis to support it. This comes from the human side of people wanting to think that they have a scriptural basis to support their bigotry.

What is taught from the pulpit comes from years of strict conformity to church doctrine and no religious leader is going to deviate from that doctrine if he wants to keep his job (google David P. Gushee to find out what happens when a church leader bucks the system). The church is fully vested in these incorrect teachings and anyone thinking outside of the accepted church teaching is punished. So the church is incapable of changing, trapped by centuries of it's own dogma.

God told us as Christians to love Him and to love our neighbors as the most important things. How the church continues to deliberately ignore that very explicit instruction from God in favor of hateful & incorrect teachings is beyond me.

Oh, and that one clobber verse that commonly gets rolled out by Christians against us - Deuteronomy 22:5 - has nothing to do with us. It is a prohibition against men dressing as women to avoid military duty, and a prohibition against women dressing as men to fight in the military - google John Gill's Exposition of the Bible on this verse to get a full explanation.