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I'm not sure if transition is right...

Started by TheWalkingSadness, November 15, 2016, 08:23:28 AM

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Sophia Sage

Quote from: TheWalkingSadness on November 15, 2016, 08:23:28 AMI mean I've read some stuff on the internet and they make sense, I mean I'm still a man, no matter what I do. I'm just lying to myself. my chromosomes and everything are the same... I don't see why gender should even matter to anyone, I mean i can do what I want despite my gender why should it even matter to me?

Identity is rooted in your interiority, in your subjectivity.  To think it's based on external "objective" factors is a mistake.  This might be why you're so keen on scientific methods -- because it's a way to avoid dealing with your interiority, of putting that into a box and locked away. 

Well, interiority can't be locked up, and any dysphoria you have about your embodiment and social role will inevitably come out.  Our emotions precede conscious thought (Antonio Damasio, The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness, Harcourt, 1999) and furthermore, our entire process of determining what is "good" or "bad" is actually rooted in our specific embodiment; these values come from feelings, not reason. 

You have no choice in your feelings.

Furthermore, what you "are" is kind of a myth -- yes, there are many different criteria by which you may be categorized, even by yourself, but categories themselves are not bound by set logic, which is certainly unfortunate for certain philosophers (George Lakoff, Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things: What Categories Reveal About the Mind, University of Chicago Press, 1987).  Categories do not exist ontologically; they are simply ways for the human brain to parse out the data of the world around us. 

So maybe, if this is true of your interiority, you're still a woman, no matter what you do.  And any attempt to avoid that fundamental truth is simply lying to yourself. 

Quoteinstead of wasting money on hrt and wasting my time, I could work on...

Attending to the truth of yourself is not a waste of time.  Because you are inherently valuable.  Which is the very same reason we "do science" -- to create better experiences for people, because people are inherently valuable. 

Why do people take caffeine?  To make themselves feel like they have more energy than they actually do.  It's not lying, it's self-modification.  The same with taking pain-killers -- they don't treat the underlying cause, but they do make the experience so much better.  But HRT is much more powerful than that -- not only can it change your psychology (in my experience it primarily opened me up to my feelings) but it produces physiological changes in your body as well.  And those changes are no lie.

Here's how you ascertain the truth about yourself:  How do you feel about having a male body, and being perceived by everyone around you as male?  Compare that to how you feel about having a female body, and being perceived by everyone around you as female.  If one makes you feel dysphoric (a combination of sad, mad, scared, and/or disgust) and the other makes feel good or at least relieved, there's your answer.

Making yourself happy is making the world a better place.  And like you say, you can still do all the other things in the world that you want... but wouldn't it be better if you were doing those things as your true self?
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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TheWalkingSadness

Quote from: Paige on November 15, 2016, 01:05:35 PM
Just curious what country are you from?

If you wish to wait 5 years, you may want to consider anti-androgens while you're waiting.  They will prevent your features from getting more masculine but not make you feminine.  After 5 years on anti-androgens you'll be in great shape to start taking estrogen.

Good luck,
Paige :)

I sadly live in Iran :( It's not a not place to live at all... specially for a person like me which in terms of culture or anything is not like them at all.
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TheWalkingSadness

Quote from: Denise on November 15, 2016, 01:54:51 PM
It sounds like you are still living at home which implies you may be in school.  Some schools have counselors that may be able to help.   

Possibly ask your parents for a physical, some excuse like it's required for after school activities.  Talk to the doctor then.

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

Oh dear... our school doesn't even have a proper bathroom. schools are basically prison in my country.
I'll go to college (I'm 17) after my last exam which is in 8 months. but I'm way behind schedule. I'm sure I'll fail and not have a chance at living here. I'll then finally get rid of that torture house.
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TheWalkingSadness

#23
Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 16, 2016, 08:17:34 AM
Identity is rooted in your interiority, in your subjectivity.  To think it's based on external "objective" factors is a mistake.  This might be why you're so keen on scientific methods -- because it's a way to avoid dealing with your interiority, of putting that into a box and locked away. 

Well, interiority can't be locked up, and any dysphoria you have about your embodiment and social role will inevitably come out.  Our emotions precede conscious thought (Antonio Damasio, The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness, Harcourt, 1999) and furthermore, our entire process of determining what is "good" or "bad" is actually rooted in our specific embodiment; these values come from feelings, not reason. 

You have no choice in your feelings.

Furthermore, what you "are" is kind of a myth -- yes, there are many different criteria by which you may be categorized, even by yourself, but categories themselves are not bound by set logic, which is certainly unfortunate for certain philosophers (George Lakoff, Women, Fire, and Dangerous Things: What Categories Reveal About the Mind, University of Chicago Press, 1987).  Categories do not exist ontologically; they are simply ways for the human brain to parse out the data of the world around us. 

So maybe, if this is true of your interiority, you're still a woman, no matter what you do.  And any attempt to avoid that fundamental truth is simply lying to yourself. 

Attending to the truth of yourself is not a waste of time.  Because you are inherently valuable.  Which is the very same reason we "do science" -- to create better experiences for people, because people are inherently valuable. 

Why do people take caffeine?  To make themselves feel like they have more energy than they actually do.  It's not lying, it's self-modification.  The same with taking pain-killers -- they don't treat the underlying cause, but they do make the experience so much better.  But HRT is much more powerful than that -- not only can it change your psychology (in my experience it primarily opened me up to my feelings) but it produces physiological changes in your body as well.  And those changes are no lie.

Here's how you ascertain the truth about yourself:  How do you feel about having a male body, and being perceived by everyone around you as male?  Compare that to how you feel about having a female body, and being perceived by everyone around you as female.  If one makes you feel dysphoric (a combination of sad, mad, scared, and/or disgust) and the other makes feel good or at least relieved, there's your answer.

Making yourself happy is making the world a better place.  And like you say, you can still do all the other things in the world that you want... but wouldn't it be better if you were doing those things as your true self?

That was really nice... :) thanks!
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Annarko

Quote from: Sophia Sage on November 16, 2016, 08:17:34 AM

Here's how you ascertain the truth about yourself:  How do you feel about having a male body, and being perceived by everyone around you as male?  Compare that to how you feel about having a female body, and being perceived by everyone around you as female.  If one makes you feel dysphoric (a combination of sad, mad, scared, and/or disgust) and the other makes feel good or at least relieved, there's your answer.


What if like in my case i have had quite an easy time being male my whole life, but only now am realizing the struggle that i have had since puberty? I really don't like myself as a male, and being any part female makes me feel great especially at home, but its super scary to think that people that i have known for decades may not accept my change, also learning all this makeup stuff and learning to dress for my body type is no easy task, hats off to all you ladies that have made the change and are successful.
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Sophia Sage

Quote from: Annarko on November 16, 2016, 09:15:19 AMWhat if like in my case i have had quite an easy time being male my whole life, but only now am realizing the struggle that i have had since puberty? I really don't like myself as a male, and being any part female makes me feel great especially at home, but its super scary to think that people that i have known for decades may not accept my change, also learning all this makeup stuff and learning to dress for my body type is no easy task, hats off to all you ladies that have made the change and are successful.

First, the past no longer exists. Only the present exists. What you're experiencing now is what matters.

Like you, I wasn't actively dysphoric growing up. I was very good at repressing my true self, being very responsive to the social cues and praise for behaving "appropriately."  But that didn't matter once the genie (Jeannie?) got out of the bottle.  And yeah, it was scary as all get out!  I was having panic attacks about what doing this meant.  But I had to do it.  I had to, or I would have been dead by now.

No, it's not easy.  Makeup and clothes, that was very stressful, but in comparison to voice work? To electrolysis? At least makeup and clothes are fun.  Or can be... it depends, because the wrong clothes can certainly stir up dysphoria.  It takes practice and eventually a keen eye to discern what's going to work and what isn't.  (For me, it's V-neck and U-neck tops, boot-cut slacks, and full skirts that work best on my frame.) 

As to other people, we can't control their reactions. We can only be true to ourselves. Which for me meant maintaining my boundaries. Anyone who wasn't going to gender me properly was cut out of my life -- and once my parents saw I was serious about that, they quickly whipped themselves into shape. I was extremely lucky in this respect. Practically speaking, then, the only people I kept in my life were my immediate family. So it goes. But I realized that being in an unhealthy relationship was worse than the pain of letting those people go.

The way I see it, if you want to go all the way, you have to put everything on the table, including yourself. 
What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it.
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katiemoz

First, the video posted above on gender dysphoria was spot on for me, and I was as confused as you years ago. Some believe (and there's other theories) that a transgender woman starts as a male embryo, and is bathed in female hormones at a certain stage of pregnancy, effectively creating a female baby with male genitals and hence, hormones.  So there is a disconnect between what the brain is expecting and what the testicles are producing.  Now you throw on all the cultural/social overlays and the confusion only grows. Therapy can help unpeel the onion, so to speak, and hormones will correct the chemical imbalance.  Both may be necessary, but start with therapy.


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JoanneB

Whenever I start slipping into one of my "Why even bother?", "This is crazy, why am I doing what I am?", "I think I got this beat now, this time for sure", etc.  moods; my therapist simply says "Everyone deserves to have joy and happiness in their life, even you"
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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Janes Groove

Quote from: TheWalkingSadness on November 16, 2016, 08:49:51 AM
I sadly live in Iran :(

According to the BBC Iran is actually more tolerant to transsexuals who want to fully transition to female, i.e., live full time as a woman, start HRT and have Gender Confirming Surgery (GCS) than many other moslem countries.  The Government of Iran will pay the costs of all of this.

If you want to remain a pre-op transsexual, however, then that is not allowed. Also, homosexuality is illegal.  So it's not very progressive as pertains to the LGBTQ community as a whole.
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TheWalkingSadness

Quote from: Jane Emily on November 16, 2016, 10:19:51 PM
According to the BBC Iran is actually more tolerant to transsexuals who want to fully transition to female, i.e., live full time as a woman, start HRT and have Gender Confirming Surgery (GCS) than many other moslem countries.  The Government of Iran will pay the costs of all of this.

If you want to remain a pre-op transsexual, however, then that is not allowed. Also, homosexuality is illegal.  So it's not very progressive as pertains to the LGBTQ community as a whole.

Funny I googled it myself. That sounds true! It's a bit shocking..... But the main problem are the people... I would do it of I lived alone. Maybe in a year I'll secretly visit a therapist. But I'm not sure if I can find one in my city! And all the stigma and the Shame is breathtaking.

And... I have to say. I'm not interested in men at all. It's not about well... Intercourse! But doing anything from having children (Which I would love to have someday) and basically living together for the rest of my life. I can't imagine the person to be man.

But I can always pretend ^_^

And I just remembered one of my other worried. I'm worried if I transition I would never marry anyone :(
I mean I can't imagine being the men in a relationship. But if I do it I would end up all alone!
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