How important is passing and how do you handle criticism/honest feedback?

[Asche]

I'm with StephanieC.

The whole "passing" thing is just a too-close relative to the sort of lookism that (cis-)women face all the time.

As others have pointed out, "passing" vs. "not passing" is not something we do.  What actually happens is that we are judged by others as being "real women" or "not real women," and that judgement depends far more on the person judging than on how we actually look or behave.

Whether cis or trans, and regardless of how we look, some people will use our appearance as an excuse to judge us women and find us wanting, or criticize and attack us, or dismiss and disparage us, or to exclude us.

I have enough issues with my body as it is; the last thing I need to do is to also submit myself to the judgement of hostile strangers.  (And if you're dissing me for "not passing," I don't care who you are, you're now a hostile stranger to me!)

[Michelle_P]

Asche makes a very good point.  It is also worth bearing in mind that the whole pass/don't pass thing is something that I see primarily from the 'More Trans Than Thou' crowd.

Yeah, classism within the trans community.     Like we need more divisive behaviors.

[Raell]

Thailand seems to be the place to be if you want to escape the US religious gender binary convention.

Thai Buddhism allows a Third Gender so few transgender Thai take hormones or have operations and mixed gender presentations are acceptable-they simply dress in the way that makes them most comfortable.

Two months ago a visiting Thai school director wore a beautiful pantsuit, had coiffed hair, makeup, and jewelry, with masculine body, manner, deep voice, etc. Nobody else at the meeting seemed to notice or care.

But it's not just the Thai..Europeans I meet here, and many Filipino friends are so gender ambiguous it's difficult to tell their birth genders also. Asians believe in yin and yang; that we are both female and male on a gender sliding scale, which science confirms.

I had no idea the US was so gender binary-bound until I came here.

[TransAm]

- If you'd have asked me a year ago how important being consistently read as male was, I'd have said it was my #1 goal. Prior to HRT or surgery, my two biggest downfalls were my voice (low for a female, but... definitely not a male range) and my chest. If neither of those things were noticed, I tended to be correctly gendered.
After having been on HRT for a little over a year now, I'm never misgendered. Choosing to have top surgery before starting HRT was one of my best decisions, I think; HRT made my voice drop quickly and that, in conjunction with the flat chest, really worked in my favor. Two months in and I was solid.
If someone used female pronouns with me at this point... honestly, I'd probably just see it as a mistake, chuckle and shrug it off.

- To be honest, I've never been brutally criticized by anyone but myself. Pre-everything, I'd imagine that I'd have taken it rather hard. I'm really just living my life at this point, though, and I don't put too much stock into the opinions of others when it comes to my appearance or preferences.

- Like I said... I was the one beating myself up and there were no means too brutal. My internal dialogue was terribly unhealthy and pushed me towards feeling suicidal more times than I'd care to admit.

- It used to be important to me because I felt invisible--akin to a parasite mechanically controlling an unwitting host--and meaningless. These days, being seen as the man that I am is important to me simply because it just feels right. I no longer waste the vast majority of my day away concocting any number of gimmicks to 'pass' (IE: carefully layering, binding, hunching, avoiding speaking, only wearing certain clothes, etc) that only semi work for me. It's really freed up my life and given me a newfound confidence in all aspects. I'm no longer invisible.

- There are few greater miseries that I could imagine than being read as a female for the rest of my life. If that were the case... I don't think it would've been a particularly lengthy existence. I only made it to 28 before I was broken enough to justify a major rebuild.

[Sophia Sage]

Asche makes a very good point.  It is also worth bearing in mind that the whole pass/don't pass thing is something that I see primarily from the 'More Trans Than Thou' crowd.

Yeah, classism within the trans community.     Like we need more divisive behaviors.

I would say this is the most divisive issue among people with gender dysphoria.  In large part because it's the basis for how gender is socially constructed by the world at large, and hence has tremendous implications for those afflicted with GD.  Don't bury your head in the sand -- it plays a huge part in how the rest of the world will treat you. 

Also divisive is the idea that one is actually the gender of one's identity, and not "trans" (which can be just a temporary "transitory" state of being). Which makes the "more trans than thou" observation rather ironic.

[tearsofash]

I got kicked out a women's homeless shelter for not "passing" well enough. It's moderately important to me, but I just started HRT and I also don't have a lot of fem clothes yet. So I have to make due with what I got.

[ChristiVee]

- How important is passing for you?

Pretty important. I don't want to be a trans female. I want to be a CIS Lesbian. XD

- How do you handle brutally honest feedback/criticism/opinions at your passing?

I still haven't gone out, until I'm "sure" I will mostly pass. I actually have an idea I may try, if trying it in cosplay at a distant convention first, since I'm into those anyhow.

- How brutal is too brutal for you when it comes to feedback at passing abilities?

Depends... what can you take? A former minister told me that socially, you want to take things said in the best possible way. Why? Because even if they mean you verbal harm, you're not granting them that power... So how brutal something is, verbally, is really relative to how you read into it, or how sensitive you are.

- Why is passing important for you?

This may seem to contradict my last point, but social things was never my strength... mostly because I associated more with the female ways of things for a while, even though I never considered being female was acceptable/possible.

- What would you think if you would never pass regardless what you did and that you would always look like the opposite gender?

I personally get great benefits from the HRT, outside of trying to pass as a female later. I'd probably keep on the HRT, and just live as what I could only pass as... but that's for me personally, because only half of my issue is GID itself... at least I'd be at comfort, knowing I'm better off than how I started... and no longer bound to psychiatric pills that sometimes are used just to control people.

[zamber74]

- How important is passing for you?
- How do you handle brutally honest feedback/criticism/opinions at your passing?
- How brutal is too brutal for you when it comes to feedback at passing abilities?
- Why is passing important for you?
- What would you think if you would never pass regardless what you did and that you would always look like the opposite gender?

If I were to be given a choice right now, to pass or not to pass I would choose the one where I was accepted by society as a whole living as a woman.  As it stands right now, I'm not on HRT yet, but passing is not the reason I am proceeding in the direction I am going.  I am doing this for me, not the rest of the world.

If I am unable to pass ever, I will live in stealth mode I believe.  I have grown used to being rather invisible to the world, and will carry on in such a manner.  Large baggy cargo shorts, large button up shirts, a hat.. it works for me.

The world may never see me, as the person I feel I have always been, but I will at the very least feel to be closer to being a woman.  It begs an interesting question that has been on my mind for a while, and that is exactly what is gender, is it defined by others?  If I accept myself for being a woman, is that not good enough?  The clothes, the jewelry, the perfect body frame, yes they are nice, but for me not a requirement.  Women need not wear the most elaborate of clothes, they can dress in jeans and a t-shirt, with no make up and that is fine in my case as well.

As I stated at the beginning of the post though, I would love to pass, but at this point in my life it is not as important as transitioning itself and being happy with myself.

If you found yourself to be the sole survivor of some sort of hypothetical apocalypse, where you there was no one to judge you, would your appearance be as important to you, or would self acceptance be the ultimate pursuit?  (I love hypothetical scenarios, sorry )

With all of the above said, who knows what I will be thinking once I start HRT, I'm not sure to what extent it will change my personality.  Also, I am hardly a voice of reason in such matters, as I have and remain to be in the closet. 

[Raell]

Well said, Zamber!

Most cis women wear comfortable jeans, T-shirts, flats, and little make up, unless going to work or on a date. But I suppose if someone is nervous about passing as female it would be easy to overcompensate.

I'm only partially trans so not concerned about "passing"-I just wear what I want, and that is usually androgynous clothing. If I buy casual clothes from a store, it's almost always from the men's section since they have the better quality T-shirts, sandals, sweatsuits, etc. Anything frilly or feminine embarrasses me.

But I make no attempt to pass as any particular gender since I'm androgynous..about 60% trans. Thai people usually correctly gender me just from the jaunty way I carry myself, though.

My ex recently emailed that she is planning to transition to live as a non-binary woman. We are both in our 60s and she already has the heavy male features from decades of testosterone, is 6' 1", balding, with wide shoulders, long arms, and thick body hair, yet she doesn't seem worried about passing and is very cavalier about it, so much so I am slightly suspicious of her story.
But maybe she is only about 60% trans also.