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SRS: New Techique by Dr. Schaff (Germany)

Started by LiliFee, December 01, 2016, 05:18:21 AM

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LiliFee

I'm going to Schaff (summer 2017), Suporn's German counterpart. He developed his own technique in 2003, after having seen many sub-par results with the traditional PI, and superb results from Thai surgeons such as Suporn. Unfortunately, there aren't many non-german girls going there, since he's rather expensive (20k), and most (if not all) documentation is in German. Still, over here, he's considered to be the best, on par with Suporn, Chett, Meltzer and the like. There are ever more surgeons picking up on his success, Marci Bowers has adopted his technique last spring, and Brassard is offering his own take on it. So it's gaining ground.

Dr. Schaff is trained as a plastic surgeon, with most of his career focusing on hand surgery. He has been an accomplished microsurgeon for years, and has lots of experience with very fine, nitty-gritty surgical steps like attaching nerves etc... About 25 years ago, he started doing PI-inversions and FTM metoidioplasty surgery and phalloplasties as well. Unfortunately, German law generally forbids to place photos of genitalia online. Therefore, it is rather hard to find example pictures, but they are out there. From what I've seen myself, the results are spectacular, definitely on par with Suporn and Chettawut. A friend who went to a gynecologist told me, the gyn couldn't tell the difference with a cis-vagina.

His technique for MTFs is called the "combined method", for reasons I'll describe below... I'll offer you a translation of the German info lying around here. It comes down to this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Schaff offers his technique in two surgeries. Why two? His technique is very complicated, and due to esthetic concerns over swelling, most of his girls have a revision after 6 months.

First surgery in steps:

- First: an orchiectomy

- The dorsal (back) part of the scrotal skin is de-epithelialized, meaning the layer of the skin containing the hair follicles is removed, thus making it hair-free. Suporn does the same. Schaff uses this part of the scrotum for the vagina. The ventral (foremost) part of the scrotum is left intact and is used for the labia majora.

- The upper penile shaft skin is removed, and the foreskin is divided into its inner and outer skin. The glans is then taken aside, and the upper most layer is removed from most of it to make it more sensitive (microsurgery). Furthermore, Schaff removes the innermost part, the uninnervated cavernous body. The rest of the glans is kept completely, and is made into a Chonburi Organ and clitoral glans. The inner layer of the foreskin is used for the preputium clitoridis (clitoral hood) and labia minora. All of the nerves and bloodvessels are kept intact. In doing all of this, he follows Suporn's technique.

- Both of the penile corpora cavernosa are removed until the pubic bone. The parts of the corpora cavernosa that are attached to the pubic bone are left intact, since cis-women also have these same corpora (clitoridis). Suporn does the same.

- Next, he creates space between the urethra/prostate/bladder on the one side and the rectum on the other, for the placement of the vagina.

- The actual clitoris is made out of the parts he has made available (see above). All of the nerves and blood vessels are left intact and are positioned there where they would have been in cis-women. Suporn does the same.

- The entrance of the vaginal opening is created by folding the leftover penile skin (bottom) into the vaginal cavity (it's de-epithelialized first). Suporn uses a meshed scrotal skin for this.

- The penile urethra and the attached urethral cavernous body are removed from the penis. Schaff then places these inside the vagina, covering the front side (where the bladder is etc). The innervation and blood vessels are left intact. The point of doing this, is that the urethra has a mucous membrane, it's not normal surface skin. Furthermore, the penile urethral skin contains Littre glands. Their normal function is to keep the urethra wet and during sexual arousal, they lubricate the urethra in expectation of the ejaculation. The mucous membrane in the urethra is very similar to the vaginal wall in cis-women. By placing the urethral membrane (which by itself is lubricating) and its glands in the vagina, it adapts to its new environment and thus offers lubrication and self-cleaning properties to the vagina. Furthermore, the urethral mucous membrane later adapts to the estrogen in your blood stream and transforms into a normal vaginal mucous membrane, thus offering the necessary binding factors for the lactic bacilli that regulate the vaginal PH and allowing for a completely normal bio-flora to develop inside. The corpus spongiosum can't be removed because doing so would cause irreparable damage to the urethra itself. The urethra is placed length-wise on the front of the vagina, with the corpus spongiosum being placed in the abdominal cavity. This entire step is unique to Schaff's technique.

- Next, Schaff uses the inner part of the foreskin to form the clitorial hood and the inside of the labia minora. The outside of the labia minora is created by using the outer foreskin. Suporn does the same.

- The labia majora are formed out of the ventral scrotal skin. Usually, Schaff leaves lots of skin in the beginning, so the area can swell if need be. This excess skin is removed in the second operative step, if necessary/wanted.

- The deepest part of the vagina is created out of the bottom of the scrotal skin, again de-epithelialized to make it hair free. By doing so, the vagina consists out of three parts: penile skin (around the opening, except for front), the urethra (front, running all the way inwards) and the deepest part by the non-meshed scrotal skin. Therefore, the tension on the mons-pubis (created by the traditional PI) is avoided, greatly improving blood flow and thus reducing the chance of complications. Because the vagina is constructed out three combined parts of tissue, the method is called 'the combined method'. Figures ;)

- Schaff keeps the Cowper glands and prostate intact, leaving them where they are naturally (secretions exiting in the urethra, thus later lubricating the vulva)

After the first surgery

- A placeholder is inserted into the vaginal cavity, same goes for a bladder catheter. This is the same in all methods. After 7-9 days the catheter is removed and the patient can start dilating.

- The patient has to dilate three times a day, 45 min each for the first six months after surgery. This is significantly more than required in the traditional Penile Inversion, but still less than Suporn's technique requires (12 months)

Second surgery

After six months of healing, the body has created all of the scar tissue it will, and the vagina itself is healed. The second operation will focus primarily on the vulva. First and foremost: due to the fact that a part of the penile skin is still turned into the vagina, the typical 'donkey ear' skin flaps can be present. These will be taken care of. Second, the excess skin for the labia majora is removed, and any further cosmetic changes to the vulva are made as requested. Even though severe complications rarely happen (fistulas etc), these are also taken care of.

Also, the second surgery can be combined with breast augmentations, FFS, tracheal shaves etc

Advantages of the Combined Method

- Except for the testes and the penile corpora cavernosa, all parts of the male reproductive organs are used

- Because Suporn's technique is followed for the creation of the vulva, outer scarring is reduced to a minimum

- Because there is no tension on the mons pubis, there are no problems with the post-operative blood-flow, thus promoting healing. Furthermore, this neglects the need to construct a mon pubis afterwards, it's already there because of the natural (homologous) nature of the vulva

- The clitoris has, same as with Suporn's technique, a sensitive hood.

- The labia minora are quite large, and cover the vulva and vagina completely. Furthermore, the vulva is created out of homologous tissues, thus maintaining the appearance and color of a cis-vagina

- Depth: Schaff has a statistical mean of 13,2 centimeters, varying between 11 and 21 centimeters in total.

- The vagina is self-cleaning, has a natural bio-flora and is self-lubricating. Furthermore, it is hair-free.

Limits and complications

These good results can only be guaranteed when you have:

- No circumcision
- No bilateral orchiectomy
- No prolonged use of anti-androgens (due to shrinkage of the penis and scrotum)
- No medical problems (diabetes, previous DVT incident, etc...)
- No scar tissues (piercings)
- No smoking
- Not being overweight
- After-care (proper dilation!)

Homologous results

This is the only method in the world that reaches complete homologous results with the natal (cis) vagina:

- Glans: Clitoris
- Clitorial hood and inner side of labia minora: Inner foreskin
- Outer side of labia minora: Outer foreskin
- Entrance of vaginal cavity: Penile shaft skin
- Labia majora: Scrotal skin

One cannot get closer to the natal female vagina and vulva, within the limits of what science currently offers of course

Differences to Suporn's techique

Dr Schaff's technique offers many similarities to Suporn's. There are some differences:

- Schaff does create a Chonburi Organ, but he doesn't divide the penile glans into three parts, as Suporn does. The reason for this is that he's afraid of additional and unnecessary scarring.

- Schaff connects the labia minora to the clitorial hood directly, he doesn't offer a fenulum clitoridis, as he believes the frenulum Suporn builds is only scar tissue.

- Schaff uses the scrotal skin for the labia majora, whereas Suporn uses penile skin. His reasoning for this is that the scrotal skin is homologous to the labia majora. Furthermore, Suporn uses the entire scrotum for the vagina (meshing it for additional size). This also requires the patient to dilate less (6 months vs 12)

- Schaff puts the penile urethra in the vagina, making sure it self-cleans and self-lubricates.

Hope this helps anybody!

:D
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
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AnonyMs

There was a previous post on this topic

srs experiences in munich (germany) / dr. schaff
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=166078.0

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LiliFee

Thanks for the link!

I know about that topic, but to my feeling it's much better to have somebody describe WHAT actually happens, instead of just saying "It's so good!" :D
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
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warlockmaker

SRS is not rocket science. Its practice makes perfect. From my experience and the girls that my foundation has sponsored I have had the fortune to look carefully at Suporn, Chettuwat, Kamoi and PAI work. First every girl will always say their surgeon is the best. Unless a major issue occurs. Most major issues have been caused by swelling. The surgeons carefully measure their aesthetic creation but swelling will distort the final outcome and the surgeons above willl do corrections a year after. I also have discussed openly the depth of the vagina and ability to have orgasms both clitoral and vaginal.

I have posted often on this topic and I always recommend surgeons that perform over 200 a year. Practice makes perfect. I am also very concious of the negative effects of GA. Thus I now know that with enough assistants in the operating theatre. Namely , scrotal scraping, that the surgery take no more than 3 hours. I was also a major playboy can have been with hundreds of cis females. The s urgeons above all produce very realistic features.

Certain comnents makes me ask questions. 45 minites dilation 3 times a day seems to be unusual. I only did 2x a day for 20 minutes.  I have 6 inches of depth with the largest dilator. And my girls even with Chett and Suporn abondoned the 3 times a day dilation after 3 months. They all have 6 plus inches in depth and orgasm. If you do 3 times at 45 minites plus the prep and cleaning thats 3 hours.In real life thats really affects quality of life.

I am not a fan of 2 stage srs. Its 2x the risk of problems occuring. The surgeons above do a one year revision after you can go without dilating for a couple of weeks. The revision surgery is to correct any uneveness due to swelling in the labia and clitoris hood. In addition, they now make the labia minora more natural by extending down the vagina opening. They dont do this initially because you have to dilate asap after srs. This surgery is done under local anesthetics.

Just some observations.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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AnonyMs

Quote from: LiliFee on December 01, 2016, 05:18:21 AM
I'm going to Schaff (summer 2017), Suporn's German counterpart. He developed his own technique in 2003, after having seen many sub-par results with the traditional PI, and superb results from Thai surgeons such as Suporn.

Suporn presented his new technique in 2002, and before that did penile inversion. Chances are Dr Schaff didn't see too many, if any at all, of the new technique. Suporn's done some huge number since then and he's only known for the new technique.
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LiliFee

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 02, 2016, 04:05:16 AM
Suporn presented his new technique in 2002, and before that did penile inversion. Chances are Dr Schaff didn't see too many, if any at all, of the new technique. Suporn's done some huge number since then and he's only known for the new technique.

Seriously? Are we really gonna start the bashing already? Without any proper information? Because I KNOW for a fact that you don't have the information, since I translated it from German for you.

PLEASE stop it! This thread is there to inform those who are willing to look into a European alternative to the Thai surgeons. I don't mean to discredit Suporn in any way, as much is clear from my initial post. This topic isn't about Suporn at all, so please leave your uninformed opinions where they should be: at home.

Quote from: warlockmaker on December 02, 2016, 03:54:25 AM
I have posted often on this topic and I always recommend surgeons that perform over 200 a year. Practice makes perfect. I am also very concious of the negative effects of GA. Thus I now know that with enough assistants in the operating theatre. Namely , scrotal scraping, that the surgery take no more than 3 hours. I was also a major playboy can have been with hundreds of cis females. The s urgeons above all produce very realistic features.

He does 200 a year, give or take. Again: the fact that Suporn and Chett are good doesn't make Schaff a bad choice. Discrediting somebody because you believe somebody else is better isn't a very sound, scientific way of approaching such a topic. Furthermore: it is dangerous for those who do actually have a change of looking into this surgeon. I'm all for Suporn and Chett, believe me. The fact is though, there are others out there who might be just as good.

Quote from: warlockmaker on December 02, 2016, 03:54:25 AM
Certain comnents makes me ask questions. 45 minites dilation 3 times a day seems to be unusual. I only did 2x a day for 20 minutes.  I have 6 inches of depth with the largest dilator. And my girls even with Chett and Suporn abondoned the 3 times a day dilation after 3 months. They all have 6 plus inches in depth and orgasm. If you do 3 times at 45 minites plus the prep and cleaning thats 3 hours.In real life thats really affects quality of life.

Yes, that's what he says in his brochure. Many also stop with the 3x45 min routine after three months and still have good results, but you know what they say about Germans: everything happens "gründlich", very thorough :D

Quote from: warlockmaker on December 02, 2016, 03:54:25 AM
I am not a fan of 2 stage srs. Its 2x the risk of problems occuring. The surgeons above do a one year revision after you can go without dilating for a couple of weeks. The revision surgery is to correct any uneveness due to swelling in the labia and clitoris hood. In addition, they now make the labia minora more natural by extending down the vagina opening. They dont do this initially because you have to dilate asap after srs. This surgery is done under local anesthetics.

Just some observations.

There are those who like 2 stage procedures, and those who don't. Since Schaff approaches SRS in a different way than Suporn and Chett, perhaps his method merits a two-stage approach. Especially the urethra merits this.

I'll say it one more time: This topic was written because I want the information to be OUT THERE. Mostly so because there was no real English info before I made this topic, I simply want to inform those who are interested about this technique and surgeon. So please: if you're simply interested in bashing anybody who isn't Suporn and Chett: please go and do so elsewhere.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
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AnonyMs

  •  

Miss Lux

Mine was done by Chettawut  many years ago.... compared it to my cis female sister side by side... Can't tell the difference .... My ex- bf for a few years is  an OB Gyne and he din't know/ discover that my vagina was manufactured up to this day... Though I am a little to tight for my liking but its working and is orgasmic.
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warlockmaker

I hope you did not think I'm bashing anyone, if thats how you saw it, then my apologies. The information is interesting and appreciated. Just some observations from people who studied their options of surgeons including the two step approach, before we took the big step. We only wanted to help with our observations.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
  •  

LiliFee

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 12:19:14 AM
This certainly is not bashing, just getting some simple facts right.

Simply put - Dr. Schaff is no German counterpart to Dr. Suporn in so many ways, but the most basic one being he has a very different technique.

1) Dr. Schaff does not guarantee a hair free vagina - other surgeons do.


Making assertions is one, getting back on them and proving them is two. All top-surgeons make the area hair-free by de-epithelialization. That's basically taking the skin and removing the layer which contains the hair follicles.

When Suporn, Chett and Schaff do the same thing, but make different promises about its outcome... What does that tell you about the surgeon, if they approach the problem the same way? A de-epithelialized skin is simply that: a layer taken away. That works in most of the situations, but not all. For that reason, Schaff doesn't make any guarantees. I consider that a measure of honesty.

And speaking of honesty: Go read up in the support groups of Chett and Suporn. There ARE girls with hair in unwanted places. Not a lot of them, but they're out there. So it seems like de-epithelialization works for the most part. The fact that Schaff wants you to know this technique doesn't always provide perfect results makes him, in my book, a good choice. At least he least you know what you're getting into.

Oh and: a two-stage procedure is a great benefit here. Since you're going in a second time anyway, any leftover hair can be removed there and then. In my opinion, that clearly makes Schaff a better choice than Chett or Suporn. They all de-epithelialize, and for all of them there are patients who still have some hair left. However, Schaff has a solid chance of correcting this, since he does offer a second surgery as a part of the technique anyway.

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 12:19:14 AM

2) Dr. Schaff does a clitoroplasty that doesn't at all look like a clitoris. He uses parts of the glans to wrap it from the top of the vulva alongside the inner labia - a clitoris in the CIS sense is neither visible nor present.


Wrong. Where did you get your information from? Schaff uses the inner foreskin for that. The glans is left intact, a part is turned into the visible clit and the rest is positioned under the skin, just like Suporn does. The only difference is, that he doesn't cut what's left of the glans into three "legs", since he considers that taking unnecessary risks.

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 12:19:14 AM

3) His incision line is different and mostly leaves visible scars - which he says he will correct in the stage 2 surgery, should the patient wish so.


My information on where the Thai surgeons make their incisions is lacking. What I do know, is that the Schaff girls I know, their experiences with doctors, lovers and the like etc verify there are no visible scars to speak of. Sure they're there, but they fall into the labial folds, same as for Suporn.

These girls DID have a revision. But in the grand scheme of things: his technique is meant to be carried out in two steps. So why compare an unfinished result from Schaff with a one-stage Thai result?

As you know the Thai surgeons mesh the scrotal skin so they have to work with different skin for the vulva. That might also lead to different incisions. Again: please compare 'finished' results, and you'll see Schaff hardly leaves any visible scarring. This has been confirmed by a few girls I know.

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 12:19:14 AM

4) During his presentation in Vienna in December 2015 he said he had performed more than 260 SRS surgeries with his new technique, so he thinks it's about time to write a medical paper on it.
Wherever you get a number of 200 surgeries per year I don't know, but this number is far from correct! He can operate 2 times per week, mich makes this a total of less than possible 100 surgeries per year, not counting his vacations and weeks off, it obviously will be clearly less than 100.


My bad. I've picked that info up in a haste online, when I was replying. I've since checked on Schaff's info about his surgery schedule. Basically, Schaff's clinic operates three times a week. One of them, he does on his own. The second, he does together with his protege, Dr. Morath. The third one, she does on her on. Mind you: Morath has been his protege since the beginnings, so she's got pretty much the same amount of experience under her belt. That also means my 200 a year number was a bit sturdy. Sorry for that.

Now I do know Suporn has been operating like a machine for the last 14 years. So I believe the 1000+ number. But I also think your number on his amount of surgeries is wrong.

To break it down: His clinic does THREE surgeries a week. A year has 52 weeks, but he might be gone a fair amount of them. Let's say he takes 12 weeks off for vacations and conferences, so 40 weeks are left. That makes for 120 surgeries a year.

Then you consider the amount of years he has been operating. By your logic, he should be operating for a bit over 2 years (since you say he had done 250 in late 2015). That's simply NOT the case, since he's been operating for much longer.

Even if you say he's gone half of the year (which he isn't), the numbers still don't add up. (26 weeks x 3 = 78 per year), since that would have him take three years to reach the 250 number. And he's been operating for a lot longer than that.

So: Please verify your facts. They're lacking.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
  •  

LiliFee

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 04:55:58 AM
Hy Lillifee,

Once you have hair deep in your vagina you can't remove them and they might still make you feel uncomfortable.
I had 6 consultations at Dr. Schaff's clinic and Dr. Morath told me herself: "If there is hair left or growing, simply pull it out, that's no big deal."
Well for me it was.


If that's true, than Suporn's and Chett's patiens have the same issues. That still makes Schaff more honest than Suporn and/or Chett, since they're all using the same technique to make the skin hair-free.

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 04:55:58 AM

Secondly, the number of surgeries Dr. Schaff himself announced at that presentation in Vienna was referring to his new technique - and his new technique/ combined technique only. Mind you - in earlier years he had the reputation as the "butcher of Munich" in Vienna circles - and he has sure improved since those times which speaks for him. And the number of surgeries he performs he told me himself (2 x times per week), but that was 2014 - and if he is now doing one surgery a week only potential patients want to make sure in writing who operates them, because Dr. Schaff and Mrs. Dr. Morath sure are two very different characters.

And the clitoroplasty he does can be seen and confirmed by all of the patients who are willing to show you their results - they look like I said, because I myself have a number of Schaff girls in my circles and we shared results, most of them in person. Show me a result picture that proves me wrong and I am willing to correct my statement here anytime.

"Butcher of Munich".... Seriously? And that isn't bashing? Especially since it's coming from somebody who'se running a consultancy company, with a primary business model to get people into Thai operating theaters?

And you're not in the least bit financially benefiting from discrediting German surgeons so you can help people search for their Thai surgeon? Please.

Quote from: monamtb on December 04, 2016, 04:55:58 AM
As far as the scars are concerned your information is incorrect.
He leaves so called "donkey ears" after the first stage of surgery and - should the patient not want to have them corrected, will remain there. Maybe not such a big thing if you prefer natural, but since I prefer my pussy shaved not a choice I ever would have wanted.

That's still following the same flawed reasoning strategy, as I've pointed out before.

Schaff does in fact invert the penile skin, only not for the full depth of the vagina. And those donkey ears appear when that happens. Since Suporn uses a scrotal graft, no donkey ears are present. I've even pointed this out in my initial post.

As I've said in my reply: Schaff's technique is MEANT to be two-stage, so please don't compare the Thai one-stage results to a Schaff girl who'se had only the first surgery. It's misleading.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
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AnonyMs

I'm just posting this for information. I have have very little opinion on Dr Schaff and I've only seen photo's of his results once. I know a fair bit about Suporn though.

There's a post here about hair in the vagina, from Brassard

Hair inside the vagina and scars outside vagina
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=203188.15

As far as I know Suporn doesn't guarantee no hair (or anything else), but he does recommend patients not have hair removal within a year of SRS as it can damage the skin. I know of a few cases of women who ended up with vaginal hair from Suporn, and in one case it was apparently easy to remove - I think it was something to do with his technique placing the at risk area where its easy to access.

Is "donkey ears" another name for "dog ears" at the end of a incision? I've heard of such a thing with Suporn.

I believe Suporn's done more than 2000 SRS now.
  •  

TechGirl



Quote from: LiliFee on December 01, 2016, 05:18:21 AM
Limits and complications

These good results can only be guaranteed when you have:

- No circumcision
- No bilateral orchiectomy
- No prolonged use of anti-androgens (due to shrinkage of the penis and scrotum)
- No medical problems (diabetes, previous DVT incident, etc...)
- No scar tissues (piercings)
- No smoking
- Not being overweight
- After-care (proper dilation!)


Has Dr. Schaff performed any surgeries on girls who HAVE been on hrt and been circumcised?  Also, what is considered "prolonged use" of anti-androgens?

Very well written article, but some of us didn't get a choice on circumcision 😉
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LiliFee

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 04, 2016, 05:46:15 AM
There's a post here about hair in the vagina, from Brassard

Hair inside the vagina and scars outside vagina
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=203188.15

As far as I know Suporn doesn't guarantee no hair (or anything else), but he does recommend patients not have hair removal within a year of SRS as it can damage the skin. I know of a few cases of women who ended up with vaginal hair from Suporn, and in one case it was apparently easy to remove - I think it was something to do with his technique placing the at risk area where its easy to access.

Is "donkey ears" another name for "dog ears" at the end of a incision? I've heard of such a thing with Suporn.

I believe Suporn's done more than 2000 SRS now.

Thanks for the info on the hair etc! Appreciate it!

The "donkey ears" form when folding the skin inwards, as far as I know. Perhaps it's the same as the "dog ears" that appear in Suporn's technique, but my info in that is seriously lacking. In any case, Schaff removes these scars in the second stage of SRS (unless the patient doesn't want it).

Quote from: TechGirl on December 04, 2016, 07:05:56 AM

Has Dr. Schaff performed any surgeries on girls who HAVE been on hrt and been circumcised?  Also, what is considered "prolonged use" of anti-androgens?

Very well written article, but some of us didn't get a choice on circumcision 😉

Thanks for the compliments on writing the article :D

Unfortunately, I don't know whether or not Schaff has already performed surgery on circumcised patients. I'll place a call tomorrow, will figure it out for you!

As for the 'prolonged use of anti-androgens': I believe he means more than 5 years with that. He still operates though, but with severe shrinkage, less source material will be available. So it also depends on how the hormones worked, and that's different in every patient. He will want to see you before he operates anyway, including a check of what's down there. In any case: it's not a definitive show-stopper, as DVT incidents are for instance.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
  •  

AnonyMs

You can search surgery dog ears. Donkey ears though turns up some strange stuff.
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AnonyMs

Quote from: Uriahheep on December 04, 2016, 09:20:09 AM
Its impossible that ANY hairs would be inside vagina.. its just some dumb people (like that PDF person), who dont know there is a difference between vaginal entrance (which is a hairy perineal flap on the lower side), and actual vagina. Yes, there is a difference.

Why do you say that?
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AnonyMs

The perineal flap extends inside so I think that inside part would be catagorised as inside the vagina. Otherwise where is the boundary?
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LiliFee

Quote from: Uriahheep on December 04, 2016, 09:20:09 AM
Its impossible that ANY hairs would be inside vagina.. its just some dumb people (like that PDF person), who dont know there is a difference between vaginal entrance (which is a hairy perineal flap on the lower side), and actual vagina. Yes, there is a difference.

Wrong. De-epithelialization makes it UNLIKELY hair remains inside the vagina. However, unlikely and impossible are two very different things. Go searching on the Suporn and Chett boards, there are girls who do have hair in their vaginas. It's not common, but it happens.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
  •  

AnonyMs

Quote from: Uriahheep on December 04, 2016, 09:20:09 AM
Its impossible that ANY hairs would be inside vagina.. its just some dumb people (like that PDF person), who dont know there is a difference between vaginal entrance (which is a hairy perineal flap on the lower side), and actual vagina. Yes, there is a difference.

I'll quote from that PDF

QuoteI asked Dr Suporn about the possibility of vaginal hair and he reassured me that it was unlikely, but if it did it would only be around the entrance. Lucky me; I have vaginal hair. I can't easily see where it's located, and I'm leaving it a while before getting electrolysis.

She doesn't strike me as a dumb person, and I don't think you should call people stupid hons either. Apart from anything else it calls into question everything you say.

There's a photo and a number of posts in the Yahoo support group about this issue, including something reported to be from the Suporn Clinic. I've never heard of it deep in the vagina, its only near the entrance at varying depths. Its not technically correct, but common usage of vagina is if is not outside the body its in the vagina and I think that's the way women are using it. Whatever you call it, there is a hair problem, but its rare and relatively easily fixed. It is also quite different to the one reported from Brassard.
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LiliFee

I guess Uriah was carefully moderated out of the topic?  :police: Thanks mods! Don't like it when people start calling me names, for whatever reason.

And, since I'm such a nice person: I've just placed a phone-call to Dr. Schaff for y'all and got some answers:

Quote from: TechGirl on December 04, 2016, 07:05:56 AM
Has Dr. Schaff performed any surgeries on girls who HAVE been on hrt and been circumcised?

Very well written article, but some of us didn't get a choice on circumcision 😉

- Circumcisions are NOT a show-stopper, Dr Schaff performs his surgeries nonetheless. He might need a different skin graft though, but all of these things can be cleared in a personal examination.

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 04, 2016, 05:46:15 AM
As far as I know Suporn doesn't guarantee no hair (or anything else), but he does recommend patients not have hair removal within a year of SRS as it can damage the skin. I know of a few cases of women who ended up with vaginal hair from Suporn, and in one case it was apparently easy to remove - I think it was something to do with his technique placing the at risk area where its easy to access.

- The skin that's used INSIDE the vagina is prepared in such a way that "practically no hair remains in the skin". That still leaves the normal pubic hair on the outside, but that's what everybody has. No laser or electrolysis is required beforehand.
–  γνῶθι σεαυτόν  –

"Know then thyself, presume not God to scan, The proper study of mankind is Man"
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