Mirror dysphoria

[flytrap]

This is a really interesting topic to me because mirrors are the only way I can be sure if I am me or my guy alter Primary. When you have Multiple Personality (Dissociative Identity) Disorder you can't always tell. If I look in the mirror and see me, I know I'm not him!

[DuchessBianca]

This is something that depresses me greatly. A little over 7.5 months on HRT, my emotional/mental state is infinitely better compared to pre-hrt, I actually want to live and enjoy life. Breasts bordering B cup, (not close to full of course) softer skin, slightly less body hair, no gross male smell, feels like my butts a little nicer too etc... just more happier then I ever thought was possible as I was in the mindset for years that my body was too huge/masculine to ever get any benefits of HRT. The the mirror..... no matter how much one of my friends tells me he no longer is able to see my as anything but female physicaly (He's been my friend since we were kids) my therapist says I've clearly changed looks wise, mother so, and since being full time since Dec 30th everytime I look in a mirror I still feel see a gross guy.... No matter how feminine I feel during the day, no mater how much happier I am, finally able to smile during the day everytime I look in a mirror I have no clue how those people are seeing what they are seeing and it feels awful. I know we are always the last people to notice changes and the most biased but bleh it's just awful not knowing what I actually look like thanks to dysphoria.

[MjaGi]

I experienced the same, hated mirrors. Now I love them. give HRT time and things will work out not from one day to another but from month to month. Eventually you will love mirrors too 

[Sno]

...
Is this what dysphoria feels like?  At least, for some people?  When who you are -- or could be -- on the inside clashes so horribly with what you see in the mirror?

I'm reminded of the monster in Frankenstein.  In the book, at least, Frankenstein's monster (he is never given a name) looks so repulsive that his maker (Dr. Frankenstein) drives him away, even as he calls Frankenstein "father" and pleads for him to recognize and accept him.  Everywhere he turns, people see his repulsive appearance and hate him and attack him and drive him away.  The most poignant scene is when he is in a Swiss village where a blind old man is left each day as everyone else goes out to work in the fields.  The monster cares for the man, brings him food, and they develop a tender relationship, until the day the man's daughter comes home during the day and sees the monster and calls the other villagers to try to kill him and end up driving him away.  Even the old man rejects him, once he is told what his unseen friend looks like.  No one can see the gentle person inside for the horrible appearance of his body.

Well sweetie, it's a yes from me. As the 'monster', or the 'alien', I am aware continuously that I am seen as terrible. Or horrible, and feel ugly in the worst senses of the word. It's not helped at all that I was a 'failure' in every aspect of parental judgement, and roundly condemned.

So now I sit as gollum. I hide in my cave, I have folk who care, and enjoy my company even if it's a bit weird. it hurts so much when my motives are questioned, and treated with suspicion, especially because of my birth assigned gender... it hurts so much I stopped trying decades ago. I practise mindfulness to stop it from getting me down, but it takes my breath away, and is crushing in its intensity. It's not a view in a mirror, but the mirror of people for me.. I see their response, and the only conclusion is I'm a monster.

Off to make dinner for some pleasant companions, my loathing of me is countered by my desire to care and love for others.

Rowan.

[Steph Eigen]

Rowan,
I guess the question is what defines a monster--is it the external physical appearance or the internal being and personality?

The appearance we manifest in the physical body and the incongruent physical body sex and internal mental gender give the perception of the monster.  I'd propose the monster is the dysphoria, the conflict not the being in the setting of inconguent sex and gender.  Even if you view yourself as being physically hideous in the wrong physical sex body, the ability of any individual to  care, have friends, engage in meaningful relationships with others suggests to me you are not a monster.  Corny as it may seem, the analogy is more consistent with the Disney Beauty and the Beast character.

Aside from appearance, the problem with the Frankenstein monster was the fact that he had a defective brain which created his grim situation more so that his physical appearance. 

[ds1987]

I used to hate looking in the mirror, and there are still times I do and i get angry or start to cry.  But cameras are my true enemy.  I am pre HRT, and still in the early stages of exploration,so I have been experimenting a lot with makeup and clothing.  I'll have a glass of wine and go to town, the contouring and shading and lining, then adding the bra (with the sacks of rice  ) and a dress or top, then the wig...and I love who I see in the mirror.

But then I take a few pictures and feel like the entire endeavor was a farce, a waste of time.  And that I, in turn, am a waste of time, that I should just forget this altogether. It seems extreme to write that I have this reaction to a bad selfie, but it reflects the deep pain and hatred I've carried for so long.

But then the next day, I try again.  It's all I can do.  And sometimes, when I look at those photos that made me so horribly upset, after a couple days have gone by, I actually really like what I see. 

[Asche]

Aside from appearance, the problem with the Frankenstein monster was the fact that he had a defective brain which created his grim situation more so that his physical appearance.

That is not how I remember the book.  He eventually learns to hate, but he doesn't start out that way.  He starts out innocent, rather child-like.

I can't speak for the movies, as I've never seen any of the Frankenstein movies.

[Sophia Sage]

That is not how I remember the book.  He eventually learns to hate, but he doesn't start out that way.  He starts out innocent, rather child-like.

Exactly.

The monster isn't monstrous or defective in spirit or intellect at all, it's only the way Frankenstein and other adults treat him that curdles his soul.  He becomes "dysphoric" from the mirror of society.

[Sno]

That is not how I remember the book.  He eventually learns to hate, but he doesn't start out that way.  He starts out innocent, rather child-like.

I can't speak for the movies, as I've never seen any of the Frankenstein movies.

That ties in with my recollection of the book, the allegory being that what starts out innocent is formed and shaped by the environment around, including prejudice, through antagonism, and provoked response. The end result is a charicature.

My physical reflection is my man suit. When I look at it I see the genetic ghosts of myself. I feel that it is ugly. Monsterous hideous beyond compare.

That is the dysphoria, the image retrieving all of the physical baggage of sensation of movement, the social mis-fitting, the emotion of the incongruence of role and expectation, all learned through antagonism and provoked response - I am a charicature. That taints what I see, and it's why I loath having my photo taken too, why would someone desire a momento, of a moment with a twisted soul, unable to change thanks to other antagonisms that have created primal responses in my lizard brain, that I struggle to manage to allow myself care, (specifically, phobias and traumatic experiences, and the irony that one of my self harm methods involves items that I am phobic about, I do indeed inflict deeper wounds upon myself).

In life, I feel like Gollum, an inhabitant of an aspect of the world that is neither one thing or the other, unclearly defined, amorphous, uncertain - the product of societal antagonism, keenly aware of the blades of judgement from those around, and innocent of why the judgement gets passed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollum

Rowan.

[Raell]

@ds1987

I'm probably considered an "attractive woman," despite my age, and being partially transmale-thus unable to appreciate it, but even I know that "selfies" are the least flattering way to take a photo.

When you are close to the camera, the lens can distort your face, and any blemish or lack of symmetry is usually exaggerated.

I prefer using a small wire stand (bought cheaply) to hold my Galaxy Note 10.1 tablet, set the timer, then back away from the camera, making sure there is indirect lighting.

If you have a friend around to take the photos, even better, but make sure the person is holding the camera level with your eyes, or slightly below, or the photo could make you look short, etc.

In the end, the photos still look hideous to me, but if I come back to them weeks later, I'm more detached and don't shudder as much when I post them to Facebook.

Even better, photos taken from FAR away. At my age, further away is better.

[MeTony]

I have a love-hate relationship with mirrors. I love the fact that I can see I have bright hair in my face. Thick hair. Not visible on an armslength but I see it in the mirror. If I chose to go all the way, I believe I have potential for a thick beard. We have thick beards on both mom's and dad's sides.

I hate watching my body. It's all wrong. I hate my boobs more than my extra weight.