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Catholic hospital says it refused surgery to trans man over religious directives

Started by stephaniec, January 06, 2017, 12:08:10 AM

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stephaniec

Catholic hospital says it refused surgery to trans man over religious directives

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/06/catholic-hospital-says-it-refused-surgery-to-trans-man-over-religious-directives/

Pink News/by. Joseph Patrick  McCormick  2017/01/06

'The plaintiff in the case, Jionni Conforti, alleges that the St Joseph's Regional Medical Center in Paterson, New Jersey, refused to allow him to have a hysterectomy on medical grounds. '
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Sydney_NYC

That hospital is 10 min away from my house. Thankfully Hackensack Medical Center is 5 minutes away and has anti-discrimination transgender policies in place for both staff and patients. St Josephs is also breaking NJ State Law as gender identity is protected against discrimination for jobs, housing and public accommodations. Lambda Legal is suing both in ACA and NJ State law. More info here:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/blog/20170104_lambda_legal_sues_nj_catholic_hospital-for-trans-man
Sydney





Born - 1970
Came Out To Self/Wife - Sept-21-2013
Started therapy - Oct-15-2013
Laser and Electrolysis - Oct-24-2013
HRT - Dec-12-2013
Full time - Mar-15-2014
Name change  - June-23-2014
GCS - Nov-2-2017 (Dr Rachel Bluebond-Langner)


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jentay1367

Religion may be the reason....but federal funding trumps jesus. If they want to keep receiving it, they'll need to toe the line.
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Abbiem

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Chris8080

I wouldn't say that Federal law trumps Jesus, my money is a private Catholic hospital quite willingly giving up any Fed money (assuming of course they are getting Fed money) over their Constitutionally protected religious rights and beliefs.

They have every bit as much right to live their beliefs as anyone else has to theirs. To tell someone else that they must forfeit their own beliefs because others don't like it is a good definition of insanity. I'm not religious myself, haven't been in any kind of church in over 50 years. Not defending the Catholic Church or the hospital beyond that their rights are every bit as important as anyone else's rights. It was posted in this thread that there is another hospital 10 minutes away that would welcome him, why sue someone that doesn't agree with you and is at odds with your beliefs? Would be the last place I would want to go.
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Asche

Quote from: Chris8080 on April 13, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
They have every bit as much right to live their beliefs as anyone else has to theirs. To tell someone else that they must forfeit their own beliefs because others don't like it is a good definition of insanity.

And if their beliefs were that it's against God's will to treat black people?  (There definitely were and probably still are Christian sects that say exactly that.)

If they were saying they didn't want trans people in their churches, I'd say you were right.  You can live perfectly well without attending a church, lots of people do it.  But most people who go to a hospital don't have the option of not going.  Medical services are considered a necessity, and as such medical providers are subject to laws about what they can and cannot do, not to mention having to get licensed and certified that they know what they are doing.  Refusing to treat a patient because of "lifestyle choices" is not something they are allowed to do.

Also, it may be true that there are other hospitals near this one, but a lot of hospitals are in areas where they are the only hospital, and some are Catholic.  (The Catholic Church has been buying up a lot of hospitals, so there are now areas where even though there are several hospitals, they are all Catholic.)  Would you say Catholic hospitals are only allowed to restrict their treatment to what the Pope allows if there are within X miles of another hospital that doesn't?


"...  I think I'm great just the way I am, and so are you." -- Jazz Jennings



CPTSD
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DawnOday

Quote from: Chris8080 on April 13, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
I wouldn't say that Federal law trumps Jesus, my money is a private Catholic hospital quite willingly giving up any Fed money (assuming of course they are getting Fed money) over their Constitutionally protected religious rights and beliefs.

They have every bit as much right to live their beliefs as anyone else has to theirs. To tell someone else that they must forfeit their own beliefs because others don't like it is a good definition of insanity. I'm not religious myself, haven't been in any kind of church in over 50 years. Not defending the Catholic Church or the hospital beyond that their rights are every bit as important as anyone else's rights. It was posted in this thread that there is another hospital 10 minutes away that would welcome him, why sue someone that doesn't agree with you and is at odds with your beliefs? Would be the last place I would want to go.

But if your insurance is for the Catholic Hospital, It could be next door and not make a difference.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Chris8080

This hospital did not refuse to treat any needed medical issue, they refused elective surgery. I don't buy the argument that my rights are important and you have none and you will bend to my wishes regardless of how wrong you feel about it. People with gender issues travel to Thailand and who knows where else so what's with across town, across state or even across the country. But no, better to sue to deny others their life long held beliefs and rights.

There is a pretty good hospital in my small town and I did talk with the only two Urologists, flat out denied in probably record time. So did I sue them because they have no right to believe differently than I do? No, I got on the phone and found another MD, Urologist and hospital where I was welcomed.

Same as the bakery that got sued for refusing to do a gay wedding. Look at the stink made over that. The baker has just as many rights as the gay couple that wanted to hire him. Ok, he's an idiot with rights but he still has rights and no one else's rights are more or less important. Why would they want him to cater the wedding, I wouldn't even want him at the wedding much less baking the cake.

There are more and more highly qualified counselors, MD's and hospitals that accept gender issues willingly than there has ever been and more all the time. Do some research and find a place where you are welcome, not one where you have to sue them to force them to bend to your wishes and abandon their beliefs.
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DawnOday

Quote from: Chris8080 on April 13, 2017, 04:52:35 PM
This hospital did not refuse to treat any needed medical issue, they refused elective surgery. I don't buy the argument that my rights are important and you have none and you will bend to my wishes regardless of how wrong you feel about it. People with gender issues travel to Thailand and who knows where else so what's with across town, across state or even across the country. But no, better to sue to deny others their life long held beliefs and rights.

There is a pretty good hospital in my small town and I did talk with the only two Urologists, flat out denied in probably record time. So did I sue them because they have no right to believe differently than I do? No, I got on the phone and found another MD, Urologist and hospital where I was welcomed.

Same as the bakery that got sued for refusing to do a gay wedding. Look at the stink made over that. The baker has just as many rights as the gay couple that wanted to hire him. Ok, he's an idiot with rights but he still has rights and no one else's rights are more or less important. Why would they want him to cater the wedding, I wouldn't even want him at the wedding much less baking the cake.

There are more and more highly qualified counselors, MD's and hospitals that accept gender issues willingly than there has ever been and more all the time. Do some research and find a place where you are welcome, not one where you have to sue them to force them to bend to your wishes and abandon their beliefs.

As in realty. Location, location, location. I know of people, people I have grown to know and love who have joined the sex trade to pay for their surgeries.  I would assume the hospital is in business to make money. There is nothing suggesting they are in business out of compassion or anything other than greed.  As a business you are there to make money not moral judgement.  Whether it be medical care or a wedding cake. If you don't want to service the desires of your clients, get out of the business. Morality can not be legislated it has to be mutually accepted. Your rights do not trump mine. And for every closely held religious belief, I can show you a crack in that facade. For example Kim Davis has closely held religious beliefs about same sex marriage. Yet she is on her fourth husband. If you are going to use the ruse that you are only following your religious beliefs at least be consistent. As far as the Catholic church? Child abuse is a sin but instead of seeking help Catholic clergy have covered it up, reassigned priests that have committed the atrocity. And lets not forget Ted Haggard who was so vociferous when Bill Clinton had an affair. Haggard had sex with a male prostitute while high on Meth. But then when clergy like Jimmy Swaggart confesses to adultery and exclaims "I have sinned" all the hands go in the air and praise Jesus, he has repented. So have your religion. It's great to believe in something, but please stop with the piety.
John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."  Moral  No one is without sin.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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jentay1367

Aside from Dawns very  sentient rationale, Catholic hospitals accept federal funding. If they chose to do that, they should not be allowed to have a private agenda. If the people are funding them, they have no right to exclude some people while coddling others. The argument that they should be able to use their own directives is fellacious on the face of it given these facts. My damn tax dollars funds you....do your damn job.
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Janes Groove

Quote from: Chris8080 on April 13, 2017, 04:52:35 PM
This hospital did not refuse to treat any needed medical issue, they refused elective surgery. I don't buy the argument that my rights are important and you have none and you will bend to my wishes regardless of how wrong you feel about it. People with gender issues travel to Thailand and who knows where else so what's with across town, across state or even across the country. But no, better to sue to deny others their life long held beliefs and rights.

There is a pretty good hospital in my small town and I did talk with the only two Urologists, flat out denied in probably record time. So did I sue them because they have no right to believe differently than I do? No, I got on the phone and found another MD, Urologist and hospital where I was welcomed.

Same as the bakery that got sued for refusing to do a gay wedding. Look at the stink made over that. The baker has just as many rights as the gay couple that wanted to hire him. Ok, he's an idiot with rights but he still has rights and no one else's rights are more or less important. Why would they want him to cater the wedding, I wouldn't even want him at the wedding much less baking the cake.

There are more and more highly qualified counselors, MD's and hospitals that accept gender issues willingly than there has ever been and more all the time. Do some research and find a place where you are welcome, not one where you have to sue them to force them to bend to your wishes and abandon their beliefs.

This is a very slippery slope you are attempting to stand on.  Good luck with that.

Who do you want deny service to next?
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Chris8080

First you are expecting me to defend religion and I have no intention of doing that, I disagree with much of organized religion which is why I belong to no church. While your bashing religion because you don't agree with it I was defending rights not religion. Just because someone's beliefs differ from yours does not mean they don't have rights. I belong to no religion whatsoever but I will defend their rights exactly as I do yours. No ones rights outweigh anyone else's and most especially based on ideology. Truth is I don't agree with the hospital or the baker I mentioned but that doesn't diminish their rights in the slightest. I too have rights and one of them is to do business somewhere else if something about a business offends me and that is exactly what I do, always have.

As for a private hospital excepting government handouts I have no idea if that is a fact and I doubt that you do either. Assuming they do as I said there can be little doubt they would forfeit it in favor of their beliefs. That's their right.

I knew when I made the first post in this thread that it would stir the pot but that doesn't change the right's that we all have, even those we disagree with.
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Chris8080

No Jane Emily rights are not a slippery slope we all have them equally. No again, I would not wish to deny service to anyone anymore than I wish to deny anyone's rights.
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NikkiB51

The one thing you miss, Chris, is that one person's rights end where it would infringe on another person's.  Since that is a legislative/judicial designation, we need the courts to step in.  I am sure there are people in America who would say it is their right to refuse service to African-Americans or any other group that they choose not to deal with, but the courts and Congress had to step in and say their rights ended where others rights were being denied.

You are correct that no one person's rights are more important than anyone else's but the minority HAS to be protected from the majority.
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jentay1367

QuoteAs for a private hospital excepting government handouts I have no idea if that is a fact and I doubt that you do either. Assuming they do as I said there can be little doubt they would forfeit it in favor of their beliefs.

Google can be your friend 

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/aclu-launches-campaign-to-strip-catholic-hospitals-of-federal-funds


Quote
No Jane Emily rights are not a slippery slope we all have them equally. No again, I would not wish to deny service to anyone anymore than I wish to deny anyone's rights.

Your argument is rather a "devil's advocate" position and gets lost in circular logic. Either that or you actually share none of the values this sites men and women hold dear and fight to protect. 


QuoteThat's their right.

No...no it's not....that's the point of this whole thread. You're wrong because like it or not, it's the law. So it's not their "right". Change the law and it becomes their "right". Same reasoning applied to why the homophobic Boy Scout Leadership was slapped down by the Fed's. Wanna play exclusionary hater guised in religious freedom? No Fed $$$ for you. Interesting that they dropped their religious piety in the face of losing dollars.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/14/obama-admin-rule-forces-hospitals-doctors-accepting-federal-funds-provide-gender-transition-services-abortions/

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DawnOday

Chris8080
For your edification. https://rewire.news/article/2014/06/24/dispelling-six-myths-catholic-hospital-care-united-states/. The church has religious freedom meaning if you want to be Hindu, you can. If you want to be Muslim, you can. Nowhere does it state Religious viewpoints take precedence over people that believe differently. Again If you accept taxpayer money or you go into business to sell cakes if you don't like your clients. Get out of the business. Here is my last question. How many businesses actually go into business to promote their dogma. I would venture none. There is a profit motive in every one. First, last and always. And as is your right you can go to another baker but remember "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Will you still feel this way when all of your rights are stripped?
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

If you have a a business or service that supports our community please submit for our Links Page.

First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Chris8080

Dawn, if one group has no choice but to submit to the will of any other group all of our rights have already been stripped.
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Chris8080

Quote from: NikkiB51 on April 14, 2017, 10:26:12 AMthe minority HAS to be protected from the majority.

By that thinking the majority needs to be protected from the minority because the minority rules.
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AnneK

QuoteDawn, if one group has no choice but to submit to the will of any other group all of our rights have already been stripped.

And what about those who have no choice but to go to a Catholic hospital?  According to one of the links further up, it's not just trans surgery that's denied, it's also birth control and more.  The whole point of this thread is that hospitals that receive funding from tax dollars have absolutely no right to impose their religious beliefs on anyone.  If those hospitals don't want to live by the rules, then they don't get public funding.  I bet that would slow down the number of hospitals taken over by the Catholic church.  One thing that's been proven over and over is when you let the church run things you cause lots of problems including loss of rights.

As far as I'm concerned, no religious institution should receive a nickle of public funds.  That includes any tax free status on churches.

QuoteBy that thinking the majority needs to be protected from the minority because the minority rules.

Quite so.  Given that less that 24% of the U.S. population is Catholic, the rest of the population must be protected from them.



I'm a 65 year old male who has been thinking about SRS for many years.  I also was a  full cross dresser for a few years.  I wear a bra, pantyhose and nail polish daily because it just feels right.

Started HRT April 17, 2019.
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