I was born with 'ambiguous genitalia'...

[staciM]

My wife was born with vaginal agenesis.  A rare birth defect that results in no vagina (without dilation), no uterus, no fallopian tubes, no cervix... basically just ovaries.  The only "advantage", never a period....saves on tampons/pads . We met as teenagers and it had absolutely no bearing on my attraction to her or us falling in love.  As an interesting side note, i actually helped her create her vagina with dilation, a task that I hope she can help me with in a few years.....I bet that's unique

  Due to her condition we figured that the only way we could ever have a baby was through adoption, something we planned on and were ok with.   However, science is an amazing thing.  Our sister in law offered to be our gestational surrogate.  The Dr. was able to harvest eggs via a foot long needle through her abdomen into her ovaries, fertilize them and implant them via IVF into our sister in law.  One cycle and 9 months later our beautiful and perfect son was born.

My point is that there are people in this world that can love you regardless of your condition .... and science is a hell of a thing....I don't know your entire medical history or plumbing, but amazing things (almost miracles) can happen, it happened to us.  Perhaps you can't carry, but maybe having your own child via IVF is possible?  If not, you can always experience the love of parenting via an adoption.  Regardless, keep your head up and be proud of how far you've come and the wonderful possibilities in your future.

Staci

[HappyMoni]

Missy,
   I think you are talking about two different things in my opinion. I think you are mourning the loss of your ability to become pregnant. This is understandable. Even if you don't want a baby at this point, the idea that you can't is really tough to deal with. You deserve to be sad about this. I can relate because of all the things I have missed out on because of "finding myself" so late in life. I get bummed out and I allow myself to do this for a while. Then I don't allow it to go on. Every minute I agonize over what I have lost is time I don't enjoy what I have now. So, if you have just realized this loss, mourn it. You have the right. Don't let it ruin what you have accomplished in your recent past.
   As for men being able to pick infertility up on some sort of radar, I don't see it. So many don't want kids to start with. Love is a very tough thing to find. I tend to lean toward the idea that you keep trying. Maybe luck has not been with you. You are not alone in not finding your soulmate. Men and women with no history of any gender circumstances have  this issue all the time. Of course this is only my perspective.
   Moni

[MissGendered]

My point is that there are people in this world that can love you regardless of your condition ....

Hi Staci!

Thank you for such a warm and kind message, I really do appreciate you taking the time to be both reassuring and encouraging!

I do realize that finding somebody that wants to love me is not impossible, though my initial post certainly did indicate a despair in that regard. My introspection this last week while participating on this site, though, has lead me a deeper understanding of what it is I have been really needing in a life partner. Though I am probably still truly bisexual, my recent epiphany has been that what I have been really wanting, and not actually finding, is a very masculine, very hetero, very virile man. This does of course make my situation more challenging than if I were pansexual or still actively dating other women. I don't know where my search for love will lead, perhaps I am on a round trip journey, and I will find happiness in the arms of another woman someday. But at the moment, that just doesn't feel right. Maybe it's my adolescence, maybe my optimism, but I just don't want to give up on the hope of finding my hercules, lol.

Your story with your wife and her sister is sooo amazingly beautiful and thought-provoking in the best possible way. My uterus was mostly removed when I was 18 months old, my ovaries had been transplanted into a neo-scrotum, and were removed when my vagina was reconstructed a few years ago. Uterine transplants are off somewhere in the future, though I would go in for one today if I could, believe me. I have so much surgery ahead of me and behind me already, I am amazed that I am even willing to consider being cut up again even one more time, but apparently I just can't get enough, ha!

I am so far in debt already (and need another $25,000 to finish my surgeries), that I cannot imagine how I could  ever afford a child, especially with no apparent job history, so I guess kids are just not in my future. Besides, my DID, though essentially resolved, still distorts my perceptions of time enough as to perhaps make my fitness for parenthood something worth considering, also.

Again, thank you for the kindness, and support, and acknowledgement of progress. I do realize how lucky I have been, but also how much of that luck was self-made. Yes, I am proud of what I have managed to do. But still self-aware enough not to let it go to my head, I really only did what had to be done. Had it been up to me, I would have chosen a normal, uneventful life. Such as it was, normalcy was never an option, lol.

Big hugs for you and yours, thanks again!

Missy

[Dena]

There is a sad truth about sex and that is it's easy to find a man who will have sex with you but it's difficult to find one that will commit to you. This is the reason for the traditional idea of no sex before marriage that became far less common as the result of the sexual revolution. If you want a lasting relationship, you should consider meeting men though charity work, church or some other social activity away from bars. There are many good men out there and some even have families just looking for a good mother. Yes, they may not be your own flesh and blood but they can love you just the same.

[MissGendered]

Missy,
   I think you are talking about two different things in my opinion. I think you are mourning the loss of your ability to become pregnant. This is understandable. Even if you don't want a baby at this point, the idea that you can't is really tough to deal with. You deserve to be sad about this. I can relate because of all the things I have missed out on because of "finding myself" so late in life. I get bummed out and I allow myself to do this for a while. Then I don't allow it to go on. Every minute I agonize over what I have lost is time I don't enjoy what I have now. So, if you have just realized this loss, mourn it. You have the right. Don't let it ruin what you have accomplished in your recent past.
   As for men being able to pick infertility up on some sort of radar, I don't see it. So many don't want kids to start with. Love is a very tough thing to find. I tend to lean toward the idea that you keep trying. Maybe luck has not been with you. You are not alone in not finding your soulmate. Men and women with no history of any gender circumstances have  this issue all the time. Of course this is only my perspective.
   Moni

Moni,

You are right about me having things mixed up. I am also mourning the loss of not only being able to bear a child, but having lost the chance to share the conceiving of a new life with a man that wants me for that purpose. i have lost abilities, and roles, and partnerships, and the lifestyles of a mother, grandmother, and so on...

The layers of loss keep unfolding in my mind, things I never realized before while I was busy struggling with merely de-transitioning from the Frankensteinian life I was assigned to..

Now that I am actually me, and not somebody busy undoing that other stuff, reality is sinking in, and it sucks on more levels than I realized. I have a lot to process, thank you for trying to help. You are very sweet, and I do appreciate your input.

My sex life with men is not as good as it should be, and I am trying so hard to get it right. My fear is that having been altered as much as I had been, I may have deficits that straight guys sense, and which I may never ever be able to overcome. I want to be wanted as if nothing was ever wrong with me or my body. I hope that can happen, I really do..

Missy

[MissGendered]

There is a sad truth about sex and that is it's easy to find a man who will have sex with you but it's difficult to find one that will commit to you. This is the reason for the traditional idea of no sex before marriage that's became far less common as the result of the sexual revolution. If you want a lasting relationship, you should consider meeting men though charity work, church or some other social activity away from bars. There are many good men out there and some even have families just looking for a good mother. Yes, they may not be your own flesh and blood but they can love you just the same.

Hey, Dena, how have you been? :-)

Well, I have certainly considered the no sex angle, but I am still learning how to have sex with men, to be frighteningly honest, I have only had intercourse with 6 or 7 guys, and only 3 were boyfriends. At first I was so busy worrying about not being clocked, I wasn't really able to explore my own needs at all. The guy I am seeing now is the only guy I have ever dated that knows my history, so I am a bit more relaxed, though super self-conscious since he can now plainly see where my body is different than it would have been had my history been normal.

I am kinda trying to juggle a whole lot more feelings and insecurities than I even want to admit here.

So, the idea of giving up sex before marriage seems premature to me, I just don't have enough skills or confidence yet. Which is sooo weird, since I used to have such an easy time pleasing women while pretending to be male, even if I was super dysphoric, ugh!

Missy

[Dena]

I have a bit different approach. I am asexual and have never been in a relationship. I can envision someday possibly finding somebody I am interested in so I know my game plan. I will disclose before sex but things will have to get pretty serious before I consider sex. Should they not be willing to take me on as an amateur, that's there loss. The person I want in my life need to be somebody I don't need to hid things from and who will accept me as I am.

For me, sexuality is only  a small portion of a relationship. The human contact and the day to day company is what really makes a relationship. You can always figure out stuff in bed (and I am told it's a lot of fun) but relationships break up because couple can't get along with each other and not because of what happened in bed.

[HappyMoni]

Moni,

You are right about me having things mixed up. I am also mourning the loss of not only being able to bear a child, but having lost the chance to share the conceiving of a new life with a man that wants me for that purpose. i have lost abilities, and roles, and partnerships, and the lifestyles of a mother, grandmother, and so on...

The layers of loss keep unfolding in my mind, things I never realized before while I was busy struggling with merely de-transitioning from the Frankensteinian life I was assigned to..

Now that I am actually me, and not somebody busy undoing that other stuff, reality is sinking in, and it sucks on more levels than I realized. I have a lot to process, thank you for trying to help. You are very sweet, and I do appreciate your input.

My sex life with men is not as good as it should be, and I am trying so hard to get it right. My fear is that having been altered as much as I had been, I may have deficits that straight guys sense, and which I may never ever be able to overcome. I want to be wanted as if nothing was ever wrong with me or my body. I hope that can happen, I really do..

Missy

Missy,
   I am getting the sense that this is hitting you like a ton of bricks right now. In my talks with you I have come to know your amazing sensitivity. I think it is a wonderful quality that you have. Unfortunately, that quality can cause you some heart ache some times. I would hope that with these new revelations, you don't panic. Take a little time to take it in, to process it, and you will come to a place at some point where you can deal with it. I think some of these thoughts are new to you. Combined with your frustration with the male friend situation, you might tend  to be a bit more  negative in your outlook. Keep in mind, it won't always be this way. I think you must eventually find your positive outlook again. If you view your love prospects negatively, you run the risk of it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.
   Now that you are not so much focused  on returning your body to who you really are, it is not surprising that you might enter a turbulent period. Remember to breath, Hon. You will find it. You will figure it out. You are an awesome person and you deserve happiness.
Moni

[MissGendered]

Missy,
   I am getting the sense that this is hitting you like a ton of bricks right now.
Moni

Moni,

Your sense is correct. I am allowing myself to feel things that haven't even crossed my mind before, and I do know that it is a healthy process, no matter how much it hurts me. I am less than 2 months living with my full brain working as a single personality, and as such, there is much greater detail and depth to my emotional and intellectual experience. I have almost 40 alters, and the adult alters, about half of the total, were not present much at all for the last 5 years as I de-transitioned. Part of that is because they are all male alters, with the exception of the most current and most dominant alter, she is undeniably female, and a protector alter par excellence. She forbad the male alters to come forward and participate until they had completed their MTF transitions internally, lest they inadvertently out us and put the whole system in danger. That was an amazingly effective strategy, but it also effectively eliminated our entire adult life history and base of experience from our mind, so it was mostly children and teenage alters running amok, lol, and doing the best they could to enjoy their newly regained consciousness and the opportunities that living with a female body entailed. Those were heady days! OMG!! Soo much fun, so much joy, so many risks taken, lol. Yeah, it was good, mostly..

When my male alters began to resurface last summer, they did so as fully reformed females, and one by one, they emerged, and got caught up with our present life, and began to contribute to our forward progress in ways the little ones had not and could not. Material gains were made, our dating life became actual dating life, instead of dating site hit and run experiences, and new plans were hatched to help us find our way to better integration and finally, emergence as a unified person. I am only speaking of 'us' retroactively, my current perception is that of a single person, but I am still aware of the discrete persons that make up my whole, and I know that if my main core, me, were again disabled, the entire crew would again take over the helm, as before, and move forward as a multiple system. In that sense, I am not 'cured', but rather restored. I actually like knowing I have a back-up team behind my every thought and perception, and knowing the multiplicity of opinions and experiences they are able to contribute enriches my every moment. While the typical human brain functions much like a single core computer, my brain is very much a multi-core processor, and that explains much, if not all, of my sensitivity and perceptive advantages.

Enough about that though, for now...

In my present, as I correlate my thoughts into some sort of cohesive whole, and turn my mind to what I am, versus what I needed to stop being, the depth of what I lost, instead of what I needed to lose, has come crashing down around me. It is one thing to say 'I am a woman', it is another thing altogether to believe that truth to one's core, and to see the world from that framework. Now that I am 'here', and I am done with the journey back from whatever it was I was, I am free to see and feel and absorb the consequence of my parents' choices and how my past lives impacted me as a woman. And, well, you are right, it will take time to assess and experience and plan and heal from those things. And you are also right about me eventually finding peace with the facts, once I know them accurately, and own them fully, and move beyond them emotionally.

I am fortunate to have the space and time to address these issues as deeply as I am now able. Thank you for being a part of this portion of my voyage, I really do appreciate it. I am also very appreciative to Susan's and the other members here for hosting me as I endeavor to know myself better, and to heal more completely. Such things are impossible to discuss in cis-dom, thank you all for your kindnesses and patience and considerations, as well as your feedback and support.

Much love..

Missy

[MissGendered]

I have a bit different approach. I am asexual and have never been in a relationship. I can envision someday possibly finding somebody I am interested in so I know my game plan. I will disclose before sex but things will have to get pretty serious before I consider sex. Should they not be willing to take me on as an amateur, that's there loss. The person I want in my life need to be somebody I don't need to hid things from and who will accept me as I am.

For me, sexuality is only  a small portion of a relationship. The human contact and the day to day company is what really makes a relationship. You can always figure out stuff in bed (and I am told it's a lot of fun) but relationships break up because couple can't get along with each other and not because of what happened in bed.

Well, I am a very sexual person, even hyper-sexual at some points of my life. I am sure that had a lot to do with having been sexualized as a very small child onward, but even so, sex is a major component of my needs array, lol. So, when you say that people don't break up because of what happens in bed, I have to respectfully disagree. I know plenty of people that have ended relationships because their sexual needs were not being met, male and female. Many, many people justify cheating for this very reason. Others open up marriages to accommodate this very reality. But I do agree that companionship and compatibility are the foundation of any lasting union, for sure.

That said, there exists a very wide variety of people out there, and with 7 billion peeps to choose from, I don't believe that there is only one possible 'soul-mate' for any given person. I believe we grow into love as often or more than we fall into it, and that putting oneself into positions where our odds are better at finding compatible partners is the way to go. I don't drink or smoke and I won't date anybody that uses tobacco at all, so that cuts out a huge portion of humanity from my potential dating pool, loll. I have used dating sites in the past when I was bonkers, and that did get me a lot of attention and experiences that I otherwise would not have had. Your suggestion about becoming involved with activities and organizations that attract 'good' people is spot on, and that is my plan going forward..

Also, thank you for mentioning men with families of their own. I have been avoiding single parents as dating partners up to now, simply because I didn't like all the extra crap that goes with ex-wives and having to pass muster with another woman's children. I can't compete with somebody's Mom, and I have no child-rearing experience, and I am a bit selfish and want all the attention for me. But, perhaps as I mature, and gain better insight into my long-term needs, this will be the way to go. I dunno, but when I read your suggestion, I liked it..

Thank you for your thoughts and support, Dena. You have been very sweet!

:-) Missy

[HughE]

I took that into my transition that I began at age 18.  Several years later (1982), I managed to convince doctors to do a physical exam because of my irregular external appearance.  They determined, in actuality, that I had an enlarged clitoris with fused labia obscuring a vagina.  They cut me open to examine my internal anatomy - nothing male inside.  Sure enough, they concluded that I am female inter-sexed.

I don't know if it's of any help knowing this, but if you were born in 1956 and don't have Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia, then it's highly likely that your mother was given a drug called ethisterone during her pregnancy with you. Ethisterone is a lot like DES in that it's a manmade hormone that turned out to have gender bending properties. Like DES, it was administered in pregnancies where the mother was thought to be at increased risk of miscarrying. The main difference is that, whereas DES usually causes female development in genetic males, ethisterone turned out to be capable of driving male development in genetic females. It causes phallic enlargement and labioscrotal fusion (and I suspect, male brain development if exposure occurs during the later stages of the pregnancy).

Ethisterone, and a similar drug called norethisterone, seem to have been in widespread use alongside DES throughout the 1950s and 60s, and there must surely be thousands if not more babies who ended up intersexed as a result of being exposed to them. I've been more looking at them as a possible cause of FTM transsexuality, but if your exposure was during the first trimester only, you could easily end up with the masculinized genitals but a brain that remained female.

I found a number of case reports, e.g.

I guess one advantage you (assuming you're a progestin baby) have over us genetic males that were exposed to DES, is that at least some case reports were actually written up and published in the medical literature, so the medical industry can't very well deny that it happened!

If you or anyone else reading this is interested, I've put a note on my newly created facebook page with links to some more case reports about intersexuality caused by progestin exposure.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/protect-the-unborn-child-from-synthetic-hormones/intersexuality-caused-by-progestin-exposure/1632158097087158

[MissGendered]

Hugh,

Thank you very much for this information, I have read the page you pasted, and I will dig more deeply into your FB links another time. My diagnoses are for DES exposure, indeterminate sex, ambiguous genitalia, pseudohermaphroditism, and gender dysphoria (and C-PTSD, and DID, for extra fun, lol). Whether there were other drugs involved in generating my physical anomolies is an open question, one I haven't even considered. It is not inconceivable that I was exposed to multiple drugs, since my mother was very much at risk for miscarriage, and her doctor was not shy about dispensing 'prenatal vitamins' of unknown contents, from his office, without a prescription, as well as prescribing anything, and everything, available. He was the doctor that treated me secretly, behind even my pediatrician's back, and it was he that referred me to additional specialists throughout my childhood. The whole thing was very hush-hush and creepy as hell..

Thanks again, your input is very welcome.

Missy

[MissGendered]

Hugh,

I just read your FB page. Sent a wave of goose-bumps down my body. Ugh!

I just want it all to stop now, and never to have happened.

I don't want anything male to be real. Not in my body, nor my brain. I want my original birthrights restored and all else forgotten and lost forever..

A girl can dream, can't she?

Ugh.

Missy

[MissGendered]

I just read a bit more and yes I am in the at risk age group for the worst of the drugs used.

Now I just want to puke.

[MissGendered]

Hugh,

I have been looking into norethisterone a bit more, and it does seem like the missing piece to my anatomical puzzle. My gyno is also the trans/intersex specialist at the university women's hospital near me, and when I first saw him he expressed doubt that DES alone explained my clitoral enlargement and ran a CAH test on me that came back negative. He wanted to run further tests, but I told him no, I was tired of being a research project and that I just wanted to live in peace from now on..

But, I have an appointment in a few weeks, so I will bring this topic up with him, and see what he thinks about it, and find out if there is any reliable diagnostic methodology he can employ...

Grrr. I am really mad about this all over again. I know you didn't mean to upset me, but I am almost beside myself with anger. And hurt. And the feeling that I will always feel like I am less than a normal woman..

Missy

[MissGendered]

Not a good night's sleep at all. Fitful dreams about my ex spouse, my mother, and the sense that I am not living any sort of real life at all, just treading water without even enough money to finish electro and see a dentist, let alone pay for facial remodeling.

Woke up earlier than I should have with my brain already spinning about my 'enlarged' clitoris and 'masculinized brain'...

A big clit and a mis-gendering can be surgically modified, but what does a binary woman like myself do about a chemically induced man-brain? How can I ever expect a binary man to want such an abomination? Is THIS why I cannot seem to bond with a hetero man is a meaningful way? Or rather, why HE cannot bond with me? And if I end up with a woman, will I always be seen as the 'less than female' partner? Will I have to be the sexual aggressor, and the calmer of her emotions, and play the male/dominant role again with her? Ugggghhhh!!!!!

Dark dream fantasies of unspeakable things done to those that hurt me. Haven't swam in this muck and mire for a looong time. Not happy about any of it, this is not me, or is it?

I wanna go back to the unicorn forest now, please. Make it stop!

[Jacqueline]

Missy,

Are you doing any better? Sleep better? I hope so. I am no way qualified to calm down the dark thoughts and let you into the forest. But I can think good thoughts and hold  you in my prayers.

Breathing is always good. (face palming for such obvious comments) I wish I could just give you a calming hug. Perhaps, mind clearing meditation could help. Like me, you seem to think very quickly and perhaps to extremes.

I have to sleep soon myself.

I hope you are having a  better day...and more.

With warmth,

Joanna

[HughE]

Hugh,

I just read your FB page. Sent a wave of goose-bumps down my body. Ugh!

I just want it all to stop now, and never to have happened.

I don't want anything male to be real. Not in my body, nor my brain. I want my original birthrights restored and all else forgotten and lost forever..

A girl can dream, can't she?

Ugh.

Missy

I felt a lot like that too, when I first found out that my androgynous looks, my comparatively shy and unassertive personality, my difficulty making male friends and the bullying and social isolation I experienced at school, might all not just be a quirk of who I am, but due to a chemical I was exposed to in the womb that disrupted my sexually dimorphic development, and made me into a kind of a mixture of a man and a woman. However, I've long since got past that, and now I wish I'd known when I was a lot younger, so I wouldn't have spent most of my life hating myself and trying to force myself into a stereotypical male mold.

For me it was a lot like the 5 stages of grief: the denial stage I was stuck in for most of my adult life, anger, bargaining and depression when I first found out, and finally acceptance, learning to live with who I am and trying to figure out how to make the most of the rest of my life.

[MissGendered]

Missy,

Are you doing any better? Sleep better? I hope so. I am no way qualified to calm down the dark thoughts and let you into the forest. But I can think good thoughts and hold  you in my prayers.

Breathing is always good. (face palming for such obvious comments) I wish I could just give you a calming hug. Perhaps, mind clearing meditation could help. Like me, you seem to think very quickly and perhaps to extremes.

I have to sleep soon myself.

I hope you are having a  better day...and more.

With warmth,

Joanna

Joanna,

Thank you, I did sleep a bit longer and more deeply last night, but still with fitful dreams. Nothing like the unrelenting nightmares I had most of my life, thank goodness! Trauma therapy did wonders in that regard, and my lucid dreaming skills are very well developed, so no, no night terrors, just tossing and turning, and unpleasantness..

One cannot be reminded too often about the effectiveness of proper breathing techniques or mindfulness. The basics work best, most often. But anybody can forget about proper grounding techniques, thank you for the reminder!

I feel like I may have left the unicorn forest a bit too soon lately. I miss the quiet and gentle companionship of my friends there. Humans are okay, but, yeah, I miss what I miss...

Missy

[MissGendered]

I felt a lot like that too, when I first found out that my androgynous looks, my comparatively shy and unassertive personality, my difficulty making male friends and the bullying and social isolation I experienced at school, might all not just be a quirk of who I am, but due to a chemical I was exposed to in the womb that disrupted my sexually dimorphic development, and made me into a kind of a mixture of a man and a woman. However, I've long since got past that, and now I wish I'd known when I was a lot younger, so I wouldn't have spent most of my life hating myself and trying to force myself into a stereotypical male mold.

For me it was a lot like the 5 stages of grief: the denial stage I was stuck in for most of my adult life, anger, bargaining and depression when I first found out, and finally acceptance, learning to live with who I am and trying to figure out how to make the most of the rest of my life.

Hugh,

I have been through those 5 stages sooo many times, for so many unreasonable things, that I cannot believe I am still being challenged by fresh revelations and the fallout from them.

I have had enough. Really. Even for a survivor like myself, there are moments where I just don't care about being rational nor calm. I want to stand up tall and scream from the bottom of my feet through the top of my head. There is no relief from such things, just accommodation. I am not there yet. But I cannot be outraged again and again forever, logically, there must be a finite end to all this crap.

Missy