We had 'the talk'

[Lisbeth]

The spouse and I had the talk about GRS this weekend.  We now have agreement that there is a finite length to our marriage.  Now we only have the end date to negotiate.

[BeverlyAnn]

Oh Lisbeth, I'm so sorry.  I was soooooo hoping....

Beverly

[Kate]

The spouse and I had the talk about GRS this weekend.  We now have agreement that there is a finite length to our marriage.  Now we only have the end date to negotiate.

I'm so sorry, Lisbeth!

GRS really does seem to be the deal-breaker for many marriages

~Kate~

[Lisbeth]

GRS really does seem to be the deal-breaker for many marriages

Indeed.  I already knew it was her final deal-breaker.

And we agreed that the children are our main priority in setting the end date.

Oh Lisbeth, I'm so sorry.  I was soooooo hoping....

Beverly

Some hopes die before their time.  And some outlive their usefulness.  I'm looking to the future, not the past.

[Sheila]

I'm so sorry Lisbeth, I know most marriages end when transitioning starts. I'm very sorry for the both of you.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth in here. I may not understand but I'm still married. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes and I'm just looking for some understanding of why.

What I don't understand is if you are expressing yourself in the opposite gender that the doctor said you were when you were born, then why would a marriage break up because of the surgery. I would imagine, in my case, you would have been on hormones so there would be no sex, like in the Male/Female standard. You would have been presenting to the world and your family as female/male. Then why would you get divorced if you love this person. Now, if you were wanting to try the equipment out and wanted your life to be a woman/man, then I could understand. If you do love this person, then you could find a way to be intimate or not.

Again, I wanted to say something on this subject and I didn't want to step on anyones toes or make something out of nothing. Just looking at why this happens.
Sheila

[Berliegh]

I'm gobsmaked and amazed how many people who are TS are still married or even married in the first place. It's still an alien area to me........but best wishes to you Lisbeth whatever the outcome..

[Kate]

Then why would you get divorced if you love this person. Now, if you were wanting to try the equipment out and wanted your life to be a woman/man, then I could understand. If you do love this person, then you could find a way to be intimate or not.

Speaking for my own wife, she wants the dynamic of a male/female relationship. And frankly, so do I. Yes, we love one another. And we'll always be wonderful friends. But we're not "spouses," and as she'll tell you, we never were. We tried to find a way to be intimate for almost 20 years, and it just never worked. And that's WITH contrasting genitals.

Now, living together as very good (platonic) girlfriends for the rest of our lives isn't the worst thing in the world, I'll agree. BUT, both of us can't help but wonder if that's fair. We're getting older, and I don't know if EITHER of us can live with never experiencing a relationship the way we were both meant to.

So I don't think divorces necessarily mean the wife doesn't love her partner anymore. It's just that emotional needs are complex, and sometimes even love isn't enough to fulfill one's needs for intimacy and relations.

~Kate~

[Sheila]

Thank you Kate.
Sheila

[Melissa-kitty]

 

[louise000]

I'm gobsmaked and amazed how many people who are TS are still married or even married in the first place. It's still an alien area to me........but best wishes to you Lisbeth whatever the outcome..

I think the reason is, Kim, is that some of us fight against our feelings when we reach adulthood and try to prove to ourselves and others that we can be 'real men', thinking that marriage will 'cure' us of wanting to be female. In other words we go into denial, which can continue for many years as we try to function as 'normal' males. That is not to say that the love we have for our wives and partners was never real, that would just not be true. For the same reasons some of us take up stereotypically male occupations which few women would be physically able to do. Then when our true nature comes to the surface everyone is shocked and dismayed because they think we've been conning them all those years. That's when marriages fall apart and friends and family head for the exit.

Lisbeth, I am so sorry for you.

Louise

[Enigma]

I'm gobsmaked and amazed how many people who are TS are still married or even married in the first place. It's still an alien area to me........but best wishes to you Lisbeth whatever the outcome..

I would second that, I'd also have this issue out in therapy.  I can only speak from my perspective of not having been married.  The short answer, at least it was 10 years ago, is that it always blew my mind when married TSs would be absolutely shocked when their spouse reacted this way.  Naieve little old me would think, "Duh!  Shes not a lesbian!"

I don't think its that simple anymore, as other people have pointed to marriage is a complex relationship on a number of different levels.  I think the issues can be worked out and it may be that seperation and divorce is the only answer.

You can still be friends, but one your transition is permanent (yeah that's rather simplistic, but that's how most non-TG people see it), you're not ever going to be the same person she married.  People get divorced for that reason all the time.

[Kim]

So sorry Lisabeth to hear your news. Luckily I am in same boat as Sheila except I haven't had GRS and probably won't due to finances. Oh we don't have money issues, but with 3 kids and one more due for Christmas time there are priorities to look at. I am fully transitioned otherwise though and we are blissfull together. She finds me more the person she fell in love with, the one that started fading away the more I pushed my reality deep inside to hide it. Now that I am not feeling weird showing my feelings and emotions and treating her the way she loves to be treated we are again stronger than when I was trying to be a guy. I think our situations are the same idea as military life. some women can handle it and some can't. Some try and crash and burn which is a shame. And as far as intimacy goes there are ways without intercourse. I also feel another fear some women may have (not that I am a professional here mind you) is that as we embrace our feminne selves our orientation will change too. We all know that one has nothing to do with the other but the fear does root itself into our spouses. I know my wife's first concern she voiced was just that. Once I assured her I am lesbian and find the male anatomy revolting she was content. Good luck as you journey forward Lisabeth,
                Kim   

[Shana A]

Sorry to hear the news Lisbeth. I hope things go reasonably well for you during this process!

zythyra

[Enigma]

I also feel another fear some women may have (not that I am a professional here mind you) is that as we embrace our feminne selves our orientation will change too. We all know that one has nothing to do with the other but the fear does root itself into our spouses.

Again, I think it exists on a number of different levels.  Lots of MtF start out as lesbians only to find out as their bodies, emotions, etc change so does who they're attracted to.  Its only fair that wives at least fear that outcome.

Its more then just a physical issue though.  Its not just our anatomy that our significant others are attracted to.  Years of hiding, etc may have created the personality traits that attracted them to us, just as transitioning strips all that away.  Changing who we are, physically, emotionally, etc changes the relationship.

Its more then physical, its more then sex.

[Lisbeth]

What I don't understand is if you are expressing yourself in the opposite gender that the doctor said you were when you were born, then why would a marriage break up because of the surgery. I would imagine, in my case, you would have been on hormones so there would be no sex, like in the Male/Female standard. You would have been presenting to the world and your family as female/male. Then why would you get divorced if you love this person. Now, if you were wanting to try the equipment out and wanted your life to be a woman/man, then I could understand. If you do love this person, then you could find a way to be intimate or not.

The answer is really quite simple.  She does not want to be a lesbian.  I have known this quite painfully for years now.  To turn your question around, why would I want to remain married to someone who does not want to remain married to me?  Please, do not anyone feel sorry for me.  I came out to her ten years ago, went full-time almost six years ago, have been on HRT for 2 1/2 years.  There aren't any surprises in this happening now.  We have been drifting apart for all that time.  It will be a relief to finally have closure on it, so I can get on with the rest of my life.

As for my sexual orientation, I'm bi and always have been.  I don't care what kind of parts anyone I love has.

[BeverlyAnn]

Please, do not anyone feel sorry for me.  I came out to her ten years ago, went full-time almost six years ago, have been on HRT for 2 1/2 years.  There aren't any surprises in this happening now. 

I understand hon.  But I always had a little hope that maybe she would become as understanding as my "D".  We both know someone who's wife was always saying "If you (insert next step in transition) I'm leaving" and they are still together.  Her wife even accompanied her to Montreal if you remember.  So I'll still hold out hope even if it's hopeless.

Anyway, you know where I am and you've got my number if you ever need a shoulder or even just someone to chat with.

Hugs,
Beverly

[Berliegh]

I think the reason is, Kim, is that some of us fight against our feelings when we reach adulthood and try to prove to ourselves and others that we can be 'real men', thinking that marriage will 'cure' us of wanting to be female. In other words we go into denial, which can continue for many years as we try to function as 'normal' males. That is not to say that the love we have for our wives and partners was never real, that would just not be true. For the same reasons some of us take up stereotypically male occupations which few women would be physically able to do. Then when our true nature comes to the surface everyone is shocked and dismayed because they think we've been conning them all those years. That's when marriages fall apart and friends and family head for the exit.

Lisbeth, I am so sorry for you.

Louise

Seriously why get married? with the intention that later you will transition and hurt the person you marry? I didn't get married on the basis that I knew I was transsexual and I didn't want to dress or look like a man or walk down the isle as a man....

Some women may feel hurt and decieved that the 'man' they married is not really a man at all and they have been decieved for many years. To me that's not honest and I can't see why people don't come 'out' at the start, before they get married.....it would save a lot of heartache..

I do have a lot of sympathy for those in this situation but it is to a certain extent self created. Those women who stick by their husbands who later decide to transition are extreamely tolerent and understanding and they too may face the same ridiclule and prejiduces...

Am I wrong to stick to my beliefs and have enough repect not to drag someone through that awful situation. I don't believe in the inforced conditioning.... 'I tried to conform'' arguement or the age factor as I grew up in the 70's and 80's.....I know I'm in the minority..

[Kate]

Seriously why get married? with the intention that later you will transition and hurt the person you marry?

I didn't get married on the basis that I knew I was transsexual and I didn't want to dress or look like a man or walk down the isle as a man....

Am I wrong to stick to my beliefs and have enough repect not to drag someone through that awful situation...

I don't believe in the inforced conditioning.... 'I tried to conform'' arguement or the age factor...

I resent the implications in all this, painting a picture of all married TSs as selfish, uncaring, male-life-loving cruel people. You've made it *abundantly* clear in many other marriage threads as well that you don't accept or believe the many explanations you've been given. I don't know what more to offer you.

~Kate~

[Kim]

Seriously why get married? with the intention that later you will transition and hurt the person you marry? I didn't get married on the basis that I knew I was transsexual and I didn't want to dress or look like a man or walk down the isle as a man

I can't speak for others but myself here. Due to a same sex person rape ( as I have mentioned through other threads) my mind worked overtime (subconciously) to supress my ISism down to the point I didn't really know it existed, even controlling my estrogen - ah the mind is a mystery and weird thingy isn't it? So when I married I honestly didn't deceive my wife, at least not intentionally. It was only over the years of our marriage that I knew something was wrong. The more my mind supressed my true self so to did it supress some of my charecteristics, which caused great frustrations in me-knowing I am changing but not knowing why or how to stop it. I also knew I was trying to be like other guys around me but didn't know why or how to stop it. But once my mind couldn't go any further in this contoll and I realized who I was, all the characteristics that are natural to me and my wife adored when we dated came flowing back quickly and the person she really married was alive again to stay. And my estrogen did what it was always suppose to. Yes, I know my story is different from most but all I know is that all is much better in our marriage and happiness is abound for us. I guess I would make a good science experiment someday but they have to catch me first!!lol
                                                                                  Kim  

[Enigma]

Am I wrong to stick to my beliefs and have enough repect not to drag someone through that awful situation. I don't believe in the inforced conditioning.... 'I tried to conform'' arguement or the age factor as I grew up in the 70's and 80's.....I know I'm in the minority..

I think its a weak argument, at best, that married MtFs did it only to prove their manhood.  Love, and Marriage, is a complex emotion.  It's just not as simple as you might believe it to be.  Neither are the reasons some marriages fail and some dont post disclosure and transition.

If all of this wasn't complicated by conflicting emotions, social values, etc, none of us would be here trying to work out our issues.