Hi

[Kylie9]

Hi, my name's Kylie. I'm new here. I've been reading around here for a while actually. I thought I'd join to eventually make some friends since I don't know any trans people IRL. I'm from Southern California. I've been here most of my life. I'm ethnically mostly Asian. I was raised in a strict traditional upper class Buddhist Asian family.

I'm transgender. I've been this way since when I was 5 years old. I like spending quiet time with myself reading books and writing all day. I don't see a psychologist. Don't take hormones. Don't wear girl clothes, nor makeup. Don't have any friends, acquaintances, or associates in the LGBT 'community'... except for one of my close friends who is a Lesbian. I'm a "hardcore" private person; meaning I don't tell anybody around me, in real life, about anything, unless I have to tell them.

So, I don't tell anybody in my life about my inner issues (my dysphoria). But, those close to me suspect things. It's hard not to suspect. I have long hair, my ears are pierced, I get manicures. I'm naturally very feminine in demeanor and how I carry myself, since puberty. I walk feminine. And if I talk a lot, my feminine infection/cadence bleeds thru. But I can act like a "normal" guy for a few hours, around friends... as long as I don't say much, don't move around much, don't talk about my thoughts, feelings, likes, interests, taste in music, past experiences, etc. 

Whatever I have, is so deeply embedded in my psyche, that since childhood, when I have dreams at night, in my dreams I am always a girl. Even in those haunting dreams where you dream of being back in the old house where you were raised in as a young child... the memories are all fairly accurate, with the exception that I'm a girl. I have an odd coping mechanism I have had since I was a pre-teen. I cope with the discomfort of being in the wrong body by reliving the day I experienced in my bed as I go to sleep, but with me as a girl.

I thought I'd join this place, to eventually make some new friends who can understand me. I like to read, a lot. I love philosophy, ontology, metaphysics, and natural philosophy. My drive for a philosophical understanding of the "mysteries" of life and existence is stronger than my sex drive; so I'm not preoccupied with searching for boyfriends or whatever.

I use Buddhism to help me deal with my secret issues of gender dysphoria as well. In meditation you learn to control and train your mind and heart, to keep them still. So that you aren't affected/effected and controlled by your thoughts and feelings. Equanimity (upekkha) as its called, where your mind and heart and body are not disturbed by external and internal stimuli/agitation.

One thing I've been doing everyday for the past three years is voice training. I've reached my target girl voice after three years. But I don't use it to talk with anybody. I just wanted my own voice. I've gotten so use to recording my voice (as you do when training your voice) that I now use my recorder as a vocal diary. I speak my diary entries in my girl voice; then save my entries in my flash drive. It's become therapeutic for me. It's like how when you look in the mirror sometimes, and you feel discomfort not seeing the "real" you, the person you are inside. In the same way; for me at least; hearing a masculine voice come out of my throat is disturbing, because it's not the voice of my inner person.

I like to keep things subtle, as possible. Nothing overt or obvious. I've gotten used to keeping my dysphoria to myself over the years. I've become good at shapeshifting, becoming different characters with slightly different personas depending on the people I hang out with. I've been a Freemason since I was 21; I hang out with lots of conservative men, many years older than me. In most cases, the lodge is made up of such religious conservatives. So, for example, it's hard to be openly gay and be accepted in most lodges. I was surprised I passed. After I was accepted and passed, and after getting to know everybody, I was curious once and I asked our lodge master a question concerning a long establish tradition in Freemasonry. It is the tradition of only allowing boys to join the 'club.' I asked our master once: "Suppose a man became a Mason, and later he became a woman... is that possible?" He gave me a curious look, and pondered for a while, and said: "You know... I don't think there has ever been a case of a transexual joining the fraternity? I'm not sure how we'd deal with that." I thought that was funny, in its time and place.

Anyways, my name is Kylie. Pleased to meet you.

[V M]

Hi Kylie 

Welcome to Susan's Place    Glad to have you here, join on in the fun

Here are some links to the site rules and stuff that we offer to all new members to help them along

Please be sure to review:

Things that you should read

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
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Hugs

V M

[Shy]

Pleased to meet you Kylie, and here your story. Glad you've found your female voice on many levels. 

[chemistrygal]

Hi Kylie,

My name is Jackie, and I just signed up a few moments ago.  I haven't even introduced myself to the gals yet, but after reading your post, wanted to provide a simple response.  I suppose this is a "coming out" of sorts for me.  I'll just tell you a little something that I've discovered about myself.  In July 2016, the 5+ decades of me suppressing my true self, not only ended up costing me thousands and thousands of dollars, and far too many relationships.  But nearly cost me my life.  I had my own suppression techniques, as you do as well (but yours seem to be much more advanced than mine).  The psychological strains that I unnecessarily put myself through landed me in the hospital.  Simply put, there is a lot of truth to the effects that stress can have on a human being.  It was time for me to be my true self regardless of the perceptions of others.  Now, that said, I'm no hero.  I haven't dressed in public yet. So, in my case, I'm still traveling on my journey; how far along the non-binary scale am I?  But I will say this, the best thing I ever did was to seek out a psychologist.  While their position is apparently not to give advice, it felt wonderful to speak openly and honestly in a safe and compassionate atmosphere, and to someone who was there just to listen and allow me to think about certain things openly.  During this communication, I just scheduled my first appointment with a Gender Therapist.  But this is a process, and may take a while, but I'm on my way finally at 59 years young.  I was 20 yesterday, I'll be 80 tomorrow.  I'm not waiting any longer to happy, however it turns out.  And I've reached out to the local LGBTQ chapter to get involved in a support group.  I think, for me anyway, it will help me to be among others who feel the same as I do, in a safe and comfortable environment.  I wish you all the best for a happy and fun life!  Smiles,  Jackie

[Michelle_P]

Hi, Jackie, and welcome to the site.

There are a number of folks here who successfully repressed themselves, staying in hiding for decades.  I'm one of them, and my crash was a year ago next month.  I'm much better now.  You are definitely not alone.

I hope you feel welcome here.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment to go through them.

Things that you should read

• Site Terms of Service and rules to live by
  
• Standard Terms and Definitions
  
• Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
  
• Reputation rules
  
• News posting & quoting guidelines
  
• Photo, avatars, and signature images policy
  

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

[Yanira]

Welcome Kylie!

What an intriguing and interesting story. I can imagine the discomfort of the free mason trying to figure out what to say and I would love to have seen his face.

I share some of your philosophical curiosities and well as your desire for privacy. For me at least, being as private as I was eventually came with its own set of burdens and I have found a sense of relief in doing psychotherapy.

Anyways, nice to met you.

Yanira x

[Kylie9]

Thanks for responding everybody!

...decades of me suppressing my true self, not only ended up costing me thousands and thousands of dollars, and far too many relationships.  But nearly cost me my life.  I had my own suppression techniques, as you do as well (but yours seem to be much more advanced than mine).

"Suppression" is a good descriptor to use. I prefer the term "self-control." Where "self-control" here literally means a certain degree of self-imposed suppression, oppression, regulation, plus temperance. 

I'm glad you've begun the process of finding your happiness Jackie.

I share some of your philosophical curiosities and well as your desire for privacy. For me at least, being as private as I was eventually came with its own set of burdens and I have found a sense of relief in doing psychotherapy.

Someone of like mind Yeah... being very private comes with its burdens. But it has its perks: no drama, which in turn means reduced stress (dukkha).

I practice a Theravada Buddhist meditation generically called Sati, which in English is translated to mean "Mindfulness." When you do sati - either walking silently or seated silently - you allow thoughts and feelings to arise as they arise, and to dissipate as they dissipate, never holding onto such arising and dissipation of thoughts and feelings. Never chasing after them. And as they arise you focus your whole mind on it suchness, its essence, and just be simply mindful of such thoughts and feelings.

After many years of this, sati helps with the feeling of dysphoria, as it ebbs and flows. You learn to allow it to ebb and flow, come and go. And Let Go, never holding onto it, or chasing after it. It helps me at least to deal with things, to reduce stress and frustration.

[Michelle_P]

Kylie, that's interesting.  You Sati/Mindfulness meditation sounds very similar to one my first therapist taught me and very much like one we use in the Unitarian Universalist meditation services.

It is tremendously helpful with both the dysphoria, and with anxiety in general.  The process of letting go makes things much easier.

[Kylie9]

Kylie, that's interesting.  You Sati/Mindfulness meditation sounds very similar to one my first therapist taught me and very much like one we use in the Unitarian Universalist meditation services.

It is tremendously helpful with both the dysphoria, and with anxiety in general.  The process of letting go makes things much easier.

Hi Michelle!

That is actually very interesting! I didn't know UU had meditations. I once lived near downtown Riverside here in California and there is a UU church made of old red brick right in front of the library.

Sati, and apparently meditations similar to it, really does therapeutically help with dysphoria and anxiety as you said. It's kept me sane and content inside.

[Danielle834]

Hi Kylie.  Welcome.  I'm very new here too.  I feel your pain, I too know what it is like to hide it so much that you just close yourself off.  Imagine being married, having 5 kids and being a cop with this secret! I'm only out to my wife, but fortunately I've reached that point where I don't care what people think.  The funny thing is that in my open fairly fem style now, I get along with everyone so much better.  It makes me wonder what I was hiding all this time and why.

[Kylie9]

Hi Kylie.  Welcome.  I'm very new here too.  I feel your pain, I too know what it is like to hide it so much that you just close yourself off. 

Nice to meet you Danielle! I actually do close myself off... keep everyone away at an arm's length. Out of fear that if they get too close, get to know me well: they'll find out.

Imagine being married, having 5 kids and being a cop with this secret!

That's very tough Danielle. I can't imagine that. I wouldn't know what to do. With a wife, children, and being a police officer at the same time.

I've been thinking about this topic for the past few days. As I read around, I see many individuals here who were married and have children. It must have been a very sad and upsetting experience to go through the process of coming out to them and becoming the person you are no matter what.

I had a girlfriend for 5ish years once. I met her when I was 19. I told myself that having a girlfriend would fix my problems; plus I didn't want to be a 20 year old virgin. The first three years were okay. I enjoyed seeing her when we saw each other.

We moved out together into our own place during the fourth year. That's when everything turned into a nightmare for me, unexpectedly. I'm not quite sure how to explain it. But I'll try. I was working back then. And at work, I'd pretend - or try very hard - to be a "normal" guy, like the other guys around me. I can do this okay for 8 hours. But after that, I build up stress and frustration. And so I have to go home and be alone so I can be myself and not pretend anymore.

But when I moved into a place with my girlfriend, when I came home, I had to keep pretending! I had to keep playing a role all day long. Every day. Every week. Every month. Nonstop. The only place where I could stop role playing / pretending and be myself [a girl] was in the shower. So I took long showers, and usually cried for an hour... realizing something was really, really wrong [with myself], and realizing that having a girlfriend made things worse.

Well, I started to try and find a way out of the relationship. And I started to resent my girlfriend's presence in my life. In my mind/heart, I blamed the extreme frustration I felt on her. I closed myself off during the 5th year. I stopped going places with her, stop having conversations with her, stopped touching her, and so on.

Naturally, she eventually became very hurt and saddened. So the verbal fights happened. During our fights, she'd vent her frustrations by yelling strange things at me. She'd say things like: "I feel like a ->-bleeped-<-ing lesbian with you!" Or: "I want a real man!" Or: "You have sex like a girl!"

I was actually perplex, thinking to myself: "How does she know? I must suck at acting?" I found it kind of humorous. So after a few more of those odd outbursts from her, I told her. She was the first person I came out to [one of three people, the other two, eventually, are my best lesbian friend and my sister]. It was a relief to get it off my chest. She pondered for a while, and then said: "Oh... I see... it all makes sense now."

After I told her, I told her I was going step out of character and have a "girl talk" with her. I told her she needs to find a real boyfriend, because she wasn't happy with her current one. After our emotional girl talk, we became friends. She found herself a new boyfriend and introduced me to him. When she was happily involved with her new boyfriend, she came to me one day and said: "What can I do to help you be happy? I want you to be happy. You wanna go shopping together for girl clothes for you? How about a make over?"

I thought about it for a while. At the time I didn't know the term "transgender" existed; I didn't even know what a transsexual was. I came from a very religious and conservative family background, plus a sheltered life. This was back in the late 90s, and so the internet was new, and I really didn't use it. So I said to her [my now ex-gf]: "No... those are all superficial. Something is wrong with me inside. I need to figure out a way to make the testosterone in my body stop working or affecting my body; and I need to see if there is a way to get estrogen into my body." And so, she did some research at the college she went to. For me, I can feel the ebbing and flowing of testosterone in my body. When there is a lot of it, it feels to me like thick syrup in my vein. I hate that feeling.

Later, she took me shopping at a vitamin shop to look for items she had researched on. She bought me a bottle of Vitex and Saw Palmetto, which I think were androgen blockers. And then all these bottle with natural estrogen. I experimented with all of the herbal pills for a few months. Then I stopped before I messed up my body, and I did my own research on the internet.

So that's my story of my 5 year relationship with the only girlfriend I ever had. We were never married, but we did share a common bank account, credit cards, our car was paid with both our money, etc. So, when we broke up, we had to figure out how to split our money and credit card bills, and so on. It was like a divorce... an amicable one

It makes me wonder what I was hiding all this time and why.

I'll get to where you are at one day and wonder the same

[Danielle834]

I actually do close myself off... keep everyone away at an arm's length. Out of fear that if they get too close, get to know me well: they'll find out.

OMG, that sounds so familiar.  I am very glad for you that you are starting to sort through this sooner rather than later.  In a way, I'm very happy with the life I've built and my facade helped make that happen, but if I had it to do over again, I would have come to terms much younger.

It must have been a very sad and upsetting experience to go through the process of coming out to them and becoming the person you are no matter what.

I am proud and happy to say that my loving wife is making the transition quite painless. She is very understanding and supportive.  We are truly soul mates.  Sure she has a million questions and kindly asks me to slow down from time to time, but I really couldn't ask for better support from a partner.

And at work, I'd pretend - or try very hard - to be a "normal" guy, like the other guys around me. I can do this okay for 8 hours. But after that, I build up stress and frustration. And so I have to go home and be alone so I can be myself and not pretend anymore.

Boy do I know it.  My whole life, I would carry on like a 'normal guy' then come home emotionally drained.  I didn't realize it was the cause at the time, but putting on an act all day can be emotionally exhausting.  Thus far, I have only come out to my wife.  Something for you to consider...I just decided one day to stop pretending.  No big announcement, no major life change, I just said screw it...I don't care what people think, I'm gonna be me.  I no longer filter everything as 'will this sound femme' or 'I should say something manly right now'.  I just act how I please.  And you know what?  I may get ribbed occasionally or a weird look, but overall, I get along with everyone better, even Alpha Males.  I am so much happier and not drained at the end of the day.  I'm betting that I never was as good at pretending as I thought. 

[Michelle_P]

Kylie, your story sounds awfully familiar.  I think you'll find many indeed souls here with similar stories.

I'm a few years older, from a generation and a place where men were manly men and never showed any emotion, one always married, and everything was supposed to end in a suburban happily-ever-after.

It didn't work out that way.

I was 'cured' at an early age, married, and had children.  Shortly after the birth of our first child, the 'cure' started to crumble, and a few years later, I met a transwoman while interviewing job candidates, and was outed to myself by my own subconscious, with the thought that "She's so brave.  I wish I could do I that." Wait.  WHAT?  I had a label for myself at that point, along with a wife and two young children.  I managed to suppress myself for thirty more years, until the dysphoria, anxiety, and depression corroded myself away, I broke down, and got treatment.  We're divorced now (Marriage in our generation usually doesn't survive coming out), and I'm healing.

You are younger than many of us moving through our transitions now, with tremendous opportunity ahead for healing and self-growth.  I hope you can find your path forward here, and the help you may want.

[Kylie9]

OMG, that sounds so familiar.  I am very glad for you that you are starting to sort through this sooner rather than later.  In a way, I'm very happy with the life I've built and my facade helped make that happen, but if I had it to do over again, I would have come to terms much younger.

Looks like we shared similar experiences Yeah... I would have done things differently. Today, I keep telling myself: 'had I known half the things I know today back then, I'd be a very different person.'

I am proud and happy to say that my loving wife is making the transition quite painless. She is very understanding and supportive.  We are truly soul mates.  Sure she has a million questions and kindly asks me to slow down from time to time, but I really couldn't ask for better support from a partner.

Really? That's very fortunate. I'm happy your wife is supportive and understanding. I've read stories here about wives who weren't as understanding.

Boy do I know it.  My whole life, I would carry on like a 'normal guy' then come home emotionally drained...  I'm betting that I never was as good at pretending as I thought. 

Yes, emotionally draining! That's the term. That's how it feels. I wasn't good at pretending either My friends at work often lightheartedly made fun of me. They often teased me for being feminine, asked me if I was into guys or girls, or something. My response was always: "No comment." I actually like the mystery and ambiguity

No big announcement... hmm... just a slow transition... I'll have to think about this for a while.

Kylie, your story sounds awfully familiar.  I think you'll find many indeed souls here with similar stories.

Looks like I've come to the right place It feels comforting to know that others have walked this path, and have had similar experiences in their own lives. It makes it easier to take that journey, since other have walked it already.

I managed to suppress myself for thirty more years, until the dysphoria, anxiety, and depression corroded myself away, I broke down, and got treatment.  We're divorced now (Marriage in our generation usually doesn't survive coming out), and I'm healing.

30 whole years... that's a long time. It seems the dysphoria and accompanying anxiety and sadness becomes unbearable at some point. Ever since I went through puberty, I've old myself that "this problem" will just go away; if I did this... if I did that. Or that it's just a stage I'm going through. I recently realized that as the years ago on by, the dysphoria just gets stronger... compounded by a growing feeling of regret. The regret of not doing anything about it a long time ago. 

I hope you find your healing.

I hope you can find your path forward here, and the help you may want.

This place is rich in resources, information, and people with experience regarding this issue. It'll def be useful for me, and what steps I may take soon.

[Kylie9]

It's me again I got myself dysphoric and worried about my body.

Sometimes - when I'm not thinking - I do weird and impulsive things. I was watching some youtube videos and ended up watching one about making and wearing gaffs. So I made one and tucked "my stuff" away. Then I impulsively figured I should go by different types of girl clothes and panties, to see what I actually look like in girl clothes. I've never done this before. And so I went to Target and spent some time in the women's section, hoping people around me won't think I was a perv. I bought over a lot of different things: tight jeans, tank tops, various kinds of panties, stockings, but no bras.

So I was in my room trying the stuff I bought, in front of a tall mirror. The first thing that went across my mind when I had hipster panties on was: "Why don't they make guy undies this soft and nice feeling?" I tried on these yoga shorts, and realized for the first time that I had a butt!

It was when I put on a tank top with boy shorts that I got worried about my shoulders. They looked big. I became sad and dysphoric for a few days, and put all the girl clothes away. Then I bought a measuring tape, to measure everything, which I had also never done before. I don't know how to explain it... when you're in that worried, dysphoric, anxious, state of mind, you sometimes go a little crazy and do weird things.

I got my new measuring tape and measured my shoulders... and became even more worried because the number looked big. So I searched the internet for stuff, which led me to an very old thread here about shoulder size and shoulder circumference. That thread made me feel even more uncomfortable.

I was just wondering if my measurements are "okay" and not hugely bad:

I'm 5' 7'' @ ~140lbs.
Shoulder circumference: 41''
Shoulder width: ~18''
Chest: 35''
Waist: ~29''
Hips circumference: 36''
Hips width: ~17"

Notes: 1) I'm not on HRT. 2) I also periodically lift weights to stay toned and in shape [bench press 100lbs, arm curls 70lbs; mostly upper body stuff]. 3) I can still loose several inches off my waist; I've been lazy with my waist. 4) I've recently learned from reading around here that girl hormones will/may redistribute my body fat and cause me to loose some muscle mass; so my hips may grow and shoulders may decrease a bit if I were on hormones for a while. 

Did any one here start off [pre-hrt] with similar measurements?

[Michelle_P]

...
I was just wondering if my measurements are "okay" and not hugely bad:

I'm 5' 7'' @ ~140lbs.
Shoulder circumference: 41''
Shoulder width: ~18''
Chest: 35''
Waist: ~29''
Hips circumference: 36''
Hips width: ~17"

Notes: 1) I'm not on HRT. 2) I also periodically lift weights to stay toned and in shape [bench press 100lbs, arm curls 70lbs; mostly upper body stuff]. 3) I can still loose several inches off my waist; I've been lazy with my waist. 4) I've recently learned from reading around here that girl hormones will/may redistribute my body fat and cause me to loose some muscle mass; so my hips may grow and shoulders may decrease a bit if I were on hormones for a while. 

Did any one here start off [pre-hrt] with similar measurements?

Similar measurements, but I wasn't doing weights, and shoulder width was a whole half inch narrower.  My weight is slightly lower now, and I've lost a little on the waist and chest 'band size' while gaining on hips and bust.  I need to re-measure...

In general, MtF folks avoid tank tops (and you probably now know why ).  Cap sleeves or short sleeves are better choices.  There are really cute cap sleeve workout tops in many shops.

[Kylie9]

Similar measurements, but I wasn't doing weights, and shoulder width was a whole half inch narrower.  My weight is slightly lower now, and I've lost a little on the waist and chest 'band size' while gaining on hips and bust.  I need to re-measure...

Oh cool, you had similar measurements. And your hips grew! I was skinny most of my life, about 120lb. I was never able to gain fat weight no matter how much I ate. I got tired of being very skinny. So I decided to try and lift weights. This contributed to my upper body growing a little bit bigger.

In general, MtF folks avoid tank tops (and you probably now know why ).

Gotcha  ... I learned that the hard way! Thanks for responding Michelle. I saw your new profile pic earlier and wanted to say that you look very nice in it.