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Darn it, it was going so well

Started by SailorMars1994, March 05, 2017, 10:48:37 AM

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SailorMars1994

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 05, 2017, 07:43:52 PM
Oh, Ashley, I know how this path ends.  I'm sorry the unpleasant effects are getting you down, but I have my doubts that becoming what you so clearly find unsatisfying will solve your problems.

I have seen how happy you can be as yourself, and how sad suppressing aspects of yourself and trying to be male has made you.  We'll still be here, should you ever choose to seek a path to your joy again.

Its ok Michelle. I am feeling slightly better and more intune with my real self. Its just so hard at times when the demons get to you and turn your whole world up side down. I may not be on Susans for a few days but i am iffy aout going back to male... I really really really dont want to go back, but i need time to think. But i am feeling more of like myself within the last 30 mins :)
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: flytrap on March 05, 2017, 07:58:16 PM

This is EXACTLY how it is for me. I have Multiple Personality Disorder (Dissociative Identity Disorder) and my primary alter is a guy. Part of the time my brain is not me and needs to be a guy. Primary was quickly misdiagnosed as transsexual because of me. As right as switching to live as a girl would have been for me, it would have been completely wrong for Primary. It took 2 years of therapy before the doctors began to understand he actually had a female alter (me) because of childhood sexual and psychological abuse.

I am sorry you had to go through that all. But the thing is I dont DID or MPD. i have had those ruled out multiple times by numerous drs. I dont have two or more different persoanlities, its just in my case the more i let myself do the things i have wanted to for so long and do greatly enjoy doing, the more the brain tries to go further in the other direction. It is as a therpaist said a mixture of internalized transphobia and the sub-consious trying to ''protct'' itself. It is inner fear factor i guess of the unknown. My brain hates change no matter how good that change is. I am curious though are you a AFAB or AMAB and did you transition?
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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Michelle_P

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on March 05, 2017, 08:05:05 PM
Its ok Michelle. I am feeling slightly better and more intune with my real self. Its just so hard at times when the demons get to you and turn your whole world up side down. I may not be on Susans for a few days but i am iffy aout going back to male... I really really really dont want to go back, but i need time to think. But i am feeling more of like myself within the last 30 mins :)

Ashley, this is very much like what I have experienced.  It gets better as we improve our coping skills, and as time passes the mental 'dude in a dress' image our hindbrain tries to concoct fades away, with our new presentation slowly integrating as our new 'normal'.

I learned that trying to directly oppose the unpleasant "you're a dude" thoughts made processing this very difficult, just as you have found.  Just as in martial arts, you have to move with your opponent, leveraging their momentum rather than directly opposing it.  When you directly engage and oppose, you unintentionally lend the unpleasant stuff strength, making it worse.

Try instead to just let it go, disengaging and just watch it go past.  Just sit still, close your eyes, and don't think about it.  Focus on your breathing for a few minutes, and just let the annoying thoughts go past without grabbing each one and chewing on it.  Breathe in, and slowly breathe out, picturing the bad stuff flowing out of your body, away from you.   Get dressed, go do your makeup and hair, and just breathe.  It's a thing called 'mindfulness' and it helps your brain learn to let go of the old self-image.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 05, 2017, 08:18:48 PM
Ashley, this is very much like what I have experienced.  It gets better as we improve our coping skills, and as time passes the mental 'dude in a dress' image our hindbrain tries to concoct fades away, with our new presentation slowly integrating as our new 'normal'.

I learned that trying to directly oppose the unpleasant "you're a dude" thoughts made processing this very difficult, just as you have found.  Just as in martial arts, you have to move with your opponent, leveraging their momentum rather than directly opposing it.  When you directly engage and oppose, you unintentionally lend the unpleasant stuff strength, making it worse.

Try instead to just let it go, disengaging and just watch it go past.  Just sit still, close your eyes, and don't think about it.  Focus on your breathing for a few minutes, and just let the annoying thoughts go past without grabbing each one and chewing on it.  Breathe in, and slowly breathe out, picturing the bad stuff flowing out of your body, away from you.   Get dressed, go do your makeup and hair, and just breathe.  It's a thing called 'mindfulness' and it helps your brain learn to let go of the old self-image.

Michelle what would i do without ya ? <3

Thats the thing. I have been battleing this for a long time. And the more to the female side I go the better i become with myself. In all honesty since I have calmed down quite a bit i doubt (funny how that word can be horrid or amazing) I will go back to giving manhood a shot tomorrow. Much less a full massive de-transition. I was going to go back this afternoon but the feeling of wrong swinged right in. What i really need is to know why I am so reluctant to all change. Good like transition, or nutrual like ..... well, i guess a good example was when we moved from British Columbia to Ontario, man things bothered me about that move. But the time change was for some reason another one. There was a 3 hour difference and i refused to go to bed until mid-night or even 1 am as it was still 10 out west. the BC time was still on the computer as it didnt automatically change to ON time. When my step-dad changed the time i was oddly crushed. I am using really bad examples that are totally seprate from OP but you can see what I mean haha, i hope...
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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flytrap

I am very relieved you don't have MPD/DID. Dissociation is an amazing coping mechanism, but the repercussions of carving the mind into different people to handle the horrible feelings and memories are devastating!

I have a guy's body and my Primary alter is a guy so it works out pretty well. Transition would have been a horrible mistake! I am not strong enough to front all the time. We've been on estrogen medication for just over 7 years. The doctors couldn't figure out why it helped after they realized Primary wasn't transsexual, but chemical castration makes us feel safe knowing we can never hurt anyone the way we were hurt.

Me and Primary share the body and each live our own lives. He fronts 5 days a week and I front 2. Every few months I go out of town with my girl friends for a few days. I'd rather just sit in the backseat most of the time. Fronting is really hard!

My body is tall skinny and pretty flat with a really androgynous face and shoulder length hair, so it's easy for people see me as a girl and him as a guy. Things were really badwhen I first realized I was a separate person. I wanted to takeover and Primary wanted me to go away. But therapy has been a big help and this has been working pretty well for us for about 5 years now.

You are in my thoughts & prayers. Love Flytrap

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Michelle_P

Ashley, your reaction to moving, and to time changes is pretty much the same phenomenon.  It is just that slow learner in the back of our minds, the primitive parts of the brain that maintain our reference of 'how things should be', reacting to things not being the same any more.

Just like with the change in homes, or the change in the clock, we do eventually adapt to it.  The difference is that with a change outside ourselves, we can understand that this is just how things are, and let the temporary conflicts go.  When the change is to ourselves, as when we get our presentation in line with our gender identity, we know that the change is something we made, and that primitive puts pressure on us to undo it, without regard to what we may understand is best for us.  It's the same force that drives other habits, and makes bad habits like diet or nail biting hard to stop.   Trying to be a male when we know our gender identity is female is just another bad habit, really.  It can be hard to quit, just like smoking or poor eating habits.

Try that mindfulness exercise, hon.  Learn to relax yourself when the Doubt Monster shows up.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: flytrap on March 05, 2017, 08:35:25 PM
I am very relieved that you don't have MPD/DID. Although dissociation is an amazing coping mechanism, the repercussions of carving the mind into different people to handle the horrible feelings and memories are devastating!

I have a guy's body and my Primary alter is a guy so it works out pretty well. Transition would have been a horrible mistake because I am not strong enough to front all the time. We've been on estrogen medication for about 8 years. The doctors couldn't figure out why it helped after they realized Primary wasn't transsexual, but chemical castration makes us feel safe knowing we can never hurt anyone the way we were hurt.

Me and Primary share the body and each live our own lives. He fronts 5 days a week and I front 2. I'm tall skinny, have a really androgynous face and shoulder length hair, so people see me as a girl and him as a guy.

Thank you for sharing that! That is really cool that you trust me and us enough to share you perosnal stuff :).

Also, i was abused to in many ways, sexual, physical and mentally. I also am kinda sure you wouldnt hurt a fly flytrap:)! My vibes I get are you are  a non-violent person <3

Tbh that brings clairty because during a lot of when this abuse happened, whatever feminity i had I would shed, reject and disown and become more masculine and manly to show I am ''not a pansy''... Even though I gained my true strength as the woman I should have always of been, it was placed in my head that males are ''stronger''. Tho i never felt I was a different person if ya know what i mean
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
  •  

SailorMars1994

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 05, 2017, 08:43:41 PM
Ashley, your reaction to moving, and to time changes is pretty much the same phenomenon.  It is just that slow learner in the back of our minds, the primitive parts of the brain that maintain our reference of 'how things should be', reacting to things not being the same any more.

Just like with the change in homes, or the change in the clock, we do eventually adapt to it.  The difference is that with a change outside ourselves, we can understand that this is just how things are, and let the temporary conflicts go.  When the change is to ourselves, as when we get our presentation in line with our gender identity, we know that the change is something we made, and that primitive puts pressure on us to undo it, without regard to what we may understand is best for us.  It's the same force that drives other habits, and makes bad habits like diet or nail biting hard to stop.   Trying to be a male when we know our gender identity is female is just another bad habit, really.  It can be hard to quit, just like smoking or poor eating habits.

Try that mindfulness exercise, hon.  Learn to relax yourself when the Doubt Monster shows up.

I guess it doesnt help to that i have OCD, mild autism, anxiety disorder and other stuff but hey, that is life. Thanks for giving me some tools, i will get off my arse and apply them! Like i said, i will do anything, i will even do something to better the world. I just only ask in return from the universe i get to be that woman they call Ashley  ;D, i mean ye si will have to get off my arse and achieve it but hey, i wana live the life i have been dreaming of for so many years !!

Not to bother ya, but you have any other tools for my tool box beside midfulness excerise :)? Mindfulness does seem like it will do wonders for me if i give it all i got!

AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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flytrap

I am glad some of what I said makes sense, SailorMars1994, even if it doesn't directly apply to you. (Please reread my last post as I added a little more after you replied).

Childhood sexual abuse has a devastating effect on a child's mind that often leave a person with adult sexual and gender confusion. I am hoping you can work through all of this in therapy so you can be certain whether transition is right for you.
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Michelle_P

Ashley, my fallback when I just couldn't get my head to relax, couldn't get into a state of mindfulness, was to run, or walk, or get on the elliptical trainer, put on some music on my earphones, and just exercise.  Essentially I would just distract myself, running or exercising until that endorphin rush, the 'runners high', kicked in and improved my mood.  It's not a great solution, but it often helped.

It helped me lose seventy pounds of weight over several years, to give you an idea how bad it got at times.

The fallback fallback was to get busy with some physical task, something that engaged my mind and let me ignore the distraction and noise from the Doubt Monster.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
  •  

SailorMars1994

Quote from: flytrap on March 05, 2017, 08:50:45 PM
I am glad some of what I said makes sense, SailorMars1994, even if it doesn't directly apply to you. (Please reread my last post as I added a little more after you replied).

Childhood sexual abuse has a devastating effect on a child's mind that often leave a person with adult sexual and gender confusion. I am hoping you can work through all of this in therapy so you can be certain whether transition is right for you.

When i am in a calmer state like now, i see transition is right for me. I know, or to the best of my knowledge know i am not running away from manhood because of abuse and stuff. I dont harbour ill feelings towards males, i just simply dont like my junk, i dont want testosterone to ever be the dominate horomes ever again, i just felt forced to be in man-box. But now that i can explore i feel more free, but the doubt monster likes to make its appearance. bu then i worry about the sub-conious
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
  •  

SailorMars1994

Quote from: Michelle_P on March 05, 2017, 08:55:33 PM
Ashley, my fallback when I just couldn't get my head to relax, couldn't get into a state of mindfulness, was to run, or walk, or get on the elliptical trainer, put on some music on my earphones, and just exercise.  Essentially I would just distract myself, running or exercising until that endorphin rush, the 'runners high', kicked in and improved my mood.  It's not a great solution, but it often helped.

It helped me lose seventy pounds of weight over several years, to give you an idea how bad it got at times.

The fallback fallback was to get busy with some physical task, something that engaged my mind and let me ignore the distraction and noise from the Doubt Monster.

Intresting! thanks, i often go for a walk to clear my own head. Or socialize. I find that those help me a lot (especially when with my female peers) in helping me stay me!
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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Sno

Hey hun,

Have you seen family again.?  ::) (hugs) hope that makes you feel a bit better. I think the problem has been nailed earlier on, as a survivor of child abuse, we tend to either curtail ourselves by believing we can't do something (imposter syndrome), or we start, and then as things start to go well, we self sabotage, to turn it into the mess we think we should deserve.

I've been reading / working through a few of these manuals on this site (http://www.ascasupport.org/ ), and found them helpful maybe they'll help you too - have a look, but be aware that they might trigger, so wait until you're in a place where you could handle it..

Rowan
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SailorMars1994

Thanks Sno. The thing is i need to work at a more self-help area until I can move to Toronto or a bigger city that has mental health rresources at my finger tips.

On one hand as I have been having a calmer morning and I can think clearer there are those voices from family that I didnt show any  ''signs''.. But that is odd as i remember a xmas pciture when I was 3 where i wasnted to be like a princess and was wearing some of my cousins princess costum.... IN FRONT OF THEM!! and there are other memories like that too >.<
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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KathyLauren

When someone tells you that you "didn't show signs" earlier, that is totally bogus.  It doesn't matter whether it is family members, outsiders, or even voices in your head.  It doesn't matter if you did show signs or didn't.  There is no requirement to have shown signs of being trans at an early age.  Any suggestion that you are "not really trans" because you didn't speak up years ago is totally wrong.

Just look around the site at how many of us are transitioning late in life.  Just based on the people I have met here, I would say that most trans people don't show outward signs until they are well into adulthood, and even then, they may keep it a secret for a long time.

It is clear to me from reading your posts that you are indeed somewhere on the trans spectrum.  I feel your pain when you experience doubts, and I rejoice when you have clarity.  It is for you to say who you are, not for family members.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: KathyLauren on March 06, 2017, 08:36:13 AM
When someone tells you that you "didn't show signs" earlier, that is totally bogus.  It doesn't matter whether it is family members, outsiders, or even voices in your head.  It doesn't matter if you did show signs or didn't.  There is no requirement to have shown signs of being trans at an early age.  Any suggestion that you are "not really trans" because you didn't speak up years ago is totally wrong.

Just look around the site at how many of us are transitioning late in life.  Just based on the people I have met here, I would say that most trans people don't show outward signs until they are well into adulthood, and even then, they may keep it a secret for a long time.

It is clear to me from reading your posts that you are indeed somewhere on the trans spectrum.  I feel your pain when you experience doubts, and I rejoice when you have clarity.  It is for you to say who you are, not for family members.

Thanks. I am slowly starting to come to terms with that very fact. The fact that they never lived in my head and such. It just hurts a lot tho, even you do come out and they do that. To build all that courage and tell them how you feel only for them to turn around and tell you how ''manly'' and ''masculine'' you are. It was one of the most hurtful things ever tbh.

But you are so right, I need to start beleiving in myself
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
  •  

flytrap

I am so sorry to know you were abused, SailorMars1994.

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on March 05, 2017, 08:44:42 PMI also am kinda sure you wouldnt hurt a fly flytrap:)! My vibes I get are you are  a non-violent person
That makes me smile. It's part of my job in our System. Protector is the powerful, hateful and violent one, but he has his job too. Balance and appreciation for what each of us brings to the System is very important for people with DID.
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SailorMars1994

Quote from: flytrap on March 06, 2017, 09:31:28 AM
I am so sorry to know you were abused, SailorMars1994.

yeah it wasnt easy. I dealt with a lot of it. My early teen years and the year of 2002 (age 8 ) were easily the worst though :/

Still, I really try not to dwell on the past. Its hard, but i like seeing a bright future :)
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
  •  

jentay1367

Quote from: SailorMars1994 on March 06, 2017, 08:41:30 AM
Thanks. I am slowly starting to come to terms with that very fact. The fact that they never lived in my head and such. It just hurts a lot tho, even you do come out and they do that. To build all that courage and tell them how you feel only for them to turn around and tell you how ''manly'' and ''masculine'' you are. It was one of the most hurtful things ever tbh.

But you are so right, I need to start beleiving in myself

Part of our collective problem....and by that I mean many and not all, is that we simply macho or man it up to a hyper amped presentation. This is either  conscious or unconscious and is a protection mechanism to keep us from being outed. When someone says you're too manly for this to be so, it only means you handled the situaion of your being stealthy in a highly efficient manner. Congrats,  you're a great actor.
So was kristin Beck. That was a fine acting job right there...l.o.l.      The irony is, what protected us originally,  comes back to haunt us in the end.  Being an excellent actor in a play and playing a crazy person to great effect, may be impressive, may seem uncanny, may possibly move others by your performance,  but it doesn't actually make you crazy. Next time you get that BS from someone, just let them know that's just how good an actor you were. But certainly dont ever let their impression of your performance define you. Or you may actually, just, go, crazy.
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SailorMars1994

True that JenTay! I have been a great actor. Most of my life I never ever did something on my own unless i mimiced someone else. I do have a lot to work on.

I went for a walk this morning and the darnest thing happened. I seem to see a pattern on when I sometimes look in to a mirror and see this ''dude'' looking right back at me, especially in the morning when I am about to shave off my cursed facial hair. I am digusted, but after my initial disgust my mind will litterly try and tell me ''It ok, its not that bad''. And then my mind will try to be open to that very thing that did digust me and then later on wears me out. This is signifigant because as a kid and a teen i remember this happening a lot too. When I knew something really bad, a danger or what not was on the way, or it was already here I would tell myself ''its not that bad, its going to be ok''. I do know that I would take any form of abuse and not break down and even in some odd way, try to find a delight out of it. Could that voice i developed actually be in the sub-conious now and be applying to my dyspoira?
AMAB Born: March 1994
Gender became on radar: 2007
Admitted to self : 2010
Came out: May 12 2014
Estrogen: October 16 2015
<3
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