Do people ever truely de-transition

[SailorMars1994]

Here is my thought and I hope it doesnt seem ignorant. But do people ever truley detransition? like how rare it is for some one to be ex-gay. My thing is, I too tried a mini detransition and I bombed. I was miserable and tbh, i corss dressed in my femme clothing a lot still when I did so. I guess, looking back you cant really say i de-transitioned in my own terms. It wasnt very long, i still kinda cheated by not being off hrt for long at all and I still cross-dressed or tried to be as androgyous as possible. So in many ways, I guess I never de-transitioned but rather had  amoment of giving up on the whole female life in a fit of doubt and despair. And now, like recently I have been getting closer to my female side and am loving it. Closer then I ever been.

I just wonder though, do those who detransition actually go back to the ''old life'' or are they still trans at heart even if they reject it. The most famous case I can think of is super transpohbic Walt Heyer. He obsesses over transgender people and he did infact live as one for 8 years. He apparently suffers from DID but from even his own account, his talk ''therapist'' basically said he wasnt trans and they even had a prayer session. Right there is a  big red flag that even if he did suffer from DID he may have been manipulated back to manhood and, since he seems to resent other trans people and litterly obsesses over them probably isnt very content with his ''manhood''.

I know there are people who do begin the journey of full transition and then back out to go into a more non-binary mode, but even then that is still trans to a degree. I just wonder what percentage of people go from wanting the whole life of the other side to the 180 and live fully in the binary of there birth gender and actually lie it..

Thanks <3 (And by no means am I trying to dump of any detransitioners we have here, I understand that whoever they are and where they end up they have a deep journey and need love and support!)

[J2J]

Good question, I guess it's always in the back of their mind I suppose.... while personally I have never started to transition I have kind of thought to myself "enough is enough, stop having trans thoughts" and tried to go about my day but then a few days to weeks later they're just back stronger and it's frustrating, I can't imagine what's it's like to start medically transitioning, HRT etc and then de-transitioning to an extent.

It makes questioning very difficult for me...

I also lack knowledge of the whole non-binary/genderfluid (?) thing (not sure if I got the terms fully correct so apologise).

[Dena]

This is an unknowable answer because people may die before the answer is known. To answer your question, we have a few member who are post surgical and returned to living in their birth gender. They would have preferred not to but they have their dysphoria under control and they need to do it for financial reasons. If it weren't for that I suspect they would have not have de-transitioned. Others have done it because it was wrong for some other reason. The numbers I have heard is about 2-3% return to their birth gender. This is the reason why RLE for at least a year is so important. A year or more is very likely to expose any issues you may have with your new gender so you will be more informed when making the decision to have surgery. Is it needed for everybody? Not really as only about 1 in 30 is likely to face this difficulty however the question is are you the 1 or are you the other 29. Only RLE might determine that.

[Cailan Jerika]

I've seen a number of blogs from the POV of FtMs who have de-transitioned and were happier after returning to their birth gender. Most did so after they found their transition was not right, and identified instead as butch lesbians. One case was different. She didn't have money for her testosterone for about two months, and found she felt better without the T than she ever did with the T, went back on T, felt worse, and decided to quit T forever. According to the blog, she is no longer sure why she felt male in the first place and is now happy living as a woman again.

So yeah, it happens.

I haven't seen any similar blogs for MtFs, but I'm sure there are some out there.

[Cailan Jerika]

I know there are people who do begin the journey of full transition and then back out to go into a more non-binary mode, but even then that is still trans to a degree.

Non-binary isn't "trans to a degree." It is trans. Trans is MtF, FtM, and non-binary. Just different products of the same brand.

[Devlyn]

I know there are people who do begin the journey of full transition and then back out to go into a more non-binary mode, but even then that is still trans to a degree.

Non-binary isn't "trans to a degree." It is trans. Trans is MtF, FtM, and non-binary. Just different products of the same brand.

+1 for that. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[JoanneB]

Did I "De-Transition" twice in my early twenties?  Or, did I simply give up on a dream?  Or, faced the reality of my personal situation?

Does it matter to what I know I have to do today for me?  Is there someone "Keeping Score"

[Fresas con Nata]

Non-binary isn't "trans to a degree." It is trans. Trans is MtF, FtM, and non-binary. Just different products of the same brand.

+1 for that. 

If we think that "trans" is "not cis" and we go from there to "trans" is "not 100% cis" then we might as well live in a world when 90+% of the population are trans.

To a degree

[Michelle_P]

Uh oh.  I don't like where this is heading.

Transgender is an identity, that is, something that one identifies within oneself that diverges from the normative gender role.

Most of the population DOES NOT identify as being transgender, but see themselves as simply living in their gender role as assigned at birth, without any distress from a gender identity that does not match their role.

Please keep in mind that the idea of gender binary has a large socially constructed component, and that in the real world, there are varying degrees of masculinity and femininity within individuals who still identify with the gender that they were assigned at birth.  That is to say, gender identity is a continuum, a range, not a simple hard binary.  People can be in many places within this range, and still feel comfortable with their assigned gender.  These people are unlikely to identify as being transgender.

I know this can be a difficult concept, but it does appear to match reality better than the social binary construct.

[SeptagonScars]

I'm just gonna share my personal story as a response to OP's question, and declare how I identify myself now and how I've identified in the past. I make no judgements of others. I'm on topic. Just wanted to clarify that first, seeing as this thread went in directions, and me reviving it might... I dunno, stir a pot, or something.

I began my detransition very recently, just almost a month ago, so this might be too soon for me to make a clear statement about how genuine or right this is for me, but, as far as I know for now... I'm doing a total 180 turn from having lived as a mostly masculine male (how I saw myself) back to a very feminine female (my birth sex, and how I currently see my gender). I don't consider myself to be transgender/transsexual and/or non-binary, but I used to think I was a binary trans man. I now consider myself to be a binary cis woman who made a (huge) mistake.

As far as I've heard around, it is rare for transitioning people to realise they're not actually trans at all and want to undo everything and live entirely as their birth sex again. Turns out I'm one of those few people. I got the short straw, I guess.

How happy I am about it though... well that's a tough question to answer but I'll try my best. There are two sides to it, the one in which I'm terribly upset over the more or less permanent physical changes I've done to my body which I now regret horribly - and the one in which I feel a genuine connection to my remaining birth sex traits and to being a woman like I never have before. I feel happy to be a woman though, and I look forward to getting my body restored again and to live the rest of my life in a female gender role. I don't like absolutely everything that's societally connected to the female gender role, but then I don't think any girl does.

I lived as a man for almost a decade, 9 years, and I passed very well for the last 4 of those. I looked good, I was attractive to others and never had trouble finding company. I liked it, in some ways, but it wasn't the real me. In fleeting moments I had doubts and missed being a woman. I dressed up in drag a few times to test myself and it frightened me. I tried hard to push those doubts away and just carry on as a man. I told myself it was what I truly wanted and I believed in my own lies.

It wasn't until last year when I planned on getting SRS that my subconscious started fighting back against me. I got as far as to schedule with a surgeon and ended up on his waiting list, when I got a gut feeling so strong that I felt it almost knocking me over from within. When I listened to it I got aware of that I really love my vagina and don't want for it to be a dick there at all. I had thought it was the reverse, but then I suddenly aligned with my primary sex characteristic trait. That was my first real sign that maybe I'm not actually trans, despite everything I had believed up until that point. The lies I had been telling myself had begun to unravel. Eventually I dared to dig into my mind, and I found out it was all because of my past traumas that I thought I was a trans guy. When that dawned upon me, I didn't want to escape the truth anymore. I embraced it, although it was very painful and facing probably my biggest fear. Now I don't want to be a man anymore, and I miss my true womanly self that I tossed away.

My case is similar to that of the transphobic Walt Heyer that you mentioned, as I also have DID or some variant of it and went through a lot of trauma in my past that messed with my mind and relationship to my body. The difference is I did not become transphobic upon my detransition. The sexual abuse I went through as a child and teen made me target my gendered physical traits as something to hate and be grossed out by. That seemed very similar to gender dysphoria, but it wasn't that. I was never trans to begin with, I just convinced myself that I was. Nowadays I've come very far in my healing, accepting and loving myself. I still carry that pain from the traumas, but I don't hate myself for being female anymore. My gender was never the real issue but it was what I targetted and attacked. I used to consider myself totally male before, but now I know I'm totally female and I love being a woman. I love being feminine, wearing makeup and dresses, etc. For me it was a mistake to transition in the first place. I should not have done it. So yeah, I'd say I am truly detransitioning.

As for physical changes I want to try my best to reverse everything or what can reasonably be reversed. But that will be a long journey that I haven't even started yet. Most of all I'm looking forward to getting new breasts, and I want to go big. But will also do voice training and beard/body hair removal, and get my hormone levels back to healthy female range again.

I present very similarly to how I did pre-transition now, but a little less like a teen girl and a little more like the almost 30 years old woman I am now. Because it's been so long since then, it does feel rather strange. Like I've suddenly woken up from a mist and aged 10 years over night and I'm not fully grasping it. But it does also feel very right within myself and just the way I like it. Detransitioning is a relief for me. So yeah, some people do truly detransition, but I don't think it's common. Percentage I've no idea, but probably less than 1% of those who've done a gender transition go from one binary to the other and then back again, if I can pull an unfounded guesstimation out of my rear-end.

[Megan.]

Firstly - there is NOTHING wrong with detransitioning.

In answer to the OP i think the reasons for it are a big factor in if the person involved moves past it as a phase or simply 'lives with it'.

Understanding ourselves is a lifelong journey. I transitioned from a role and behaviour that I was unhappy with (male), to one that I like very much (female). There is however nothing to say that in future I won't find a way of living that fits or works even better for me.

If i had to detransition due to external factors, I don't imagine I'd ever truly move past it; but if it was a change on my part to a better place, then I guess I'd move on and could evolve without regret.

Just my views [emoji4]. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Cindy]

 

I have removed a post.

If someone does not wish to transition or after transition wishes to detransition that is perfectly fine.


I am not going to have uneducated comments about transgender being a psychiatric condition thrown about. There is a massive body of work over many years on transgender being a biological condition and not a psychiatric illness. I am not going to have trans deniers spreading rubbish on the Forum.

Everyone should have counselling to ensure that there is no underlying psychiatric issues but to extend that to suggest that being transgender is just a psychiatric condition is utterly false.

Cindy

[Virginia]

Our couple's psychologist has worked with transgender people since the 1970's. She shared with my wife and me that she has worked with many people who have detranstioned. Her research showed a solid one third of transgender people detransition. Our doctor explained that gender variance is fairly common. But for most people peace comes from finding a way to do that in their birth gender.

Living as their "Authenitic Self" is a wonderful goal. Sadly there are often obstacles that make this impossible When I started therapy back in 2009 my GT explained there are three different human needs drive Gender Dysphoria; social acceptance, acceptance of how we look and acceptance of who we are. Therapy is vital for a person to explorer these needs so they cab determine whether transition will fill them or make them worse.

[Dani]

One point that is missing in this discussion is when the detransition occurs. Discussing why someone detransitions without discussing when in the process of transition they decide not to go forward makes all the difference in the world.

Is it really detransition when a person decides to not go forward after dressing and living in the chosen gender for a short period of time? How about detransition after a lengthy period of Hormone therapy, but before any surgery? These steps are designed to cause the individual involved to take a hard look at what changes are about to happen. Detransition at this point is more or less uneventful and is not as involved as someone who has had surgery of any kind.

Is detransition after any surgery, top or bottom, what we are really talking about? 

[Alexa Ares]

Walt causes alot of harm in my view. That He (I will use the gender he identifies as now) chooses to spend so much energy criticising transgender, when over-all many people are far happier to be able to be themselves. I find him strange, and that he merely found a new way to suppress himself, ie Religion. No disrespect to people who believe, however Religion is a non logical construct, and as such has huge power to influence people.

With Walt, as bad as it sounds to say, unless the vast majority of cases where people had abusive childhoods end up transitioning ,it is hard to argue that childhood abuse is the primary cause of gender dsyphoria.

Further, with Walt, perhaps his own conservatism created issues. Ie coming out as Trans, and decided to go on hormones, and have GRS. Maybe not having GRS would have been better in this case? Going all out to be as Woman as possible won't be great for everyone. Pyschologists can't be held responsible for peoples non disclosure in therapy.
Many people would do well to take their time in Transition.
Further 8 years post op ,is a LONG time to go with something and then feel it dosent work. It makes me feel Walt found religion so to not express Trans ID.

I feel Walt is a Right wing fanatic who uses religion to beat Trans with a stick. He's a example of whats not so good with America and Religion. I make no apologies for seeing religion as not so great. Prehaps being European, my Atheism is unusual to Americans ?

About De transition overall, its up to the individual and does not invalidate their life experience. I just hope those who made choices they now regret come to some peace with themselves and do not torment themselves over choices they made before. Those choices may have been needed to keep them alive at the time.
With Walt I find it hard to feel much empathy as he is unable to show that for the plethora of Trans people out there. Rainbow not Religion please!

Lexa xx

[amandam]

If someone doesn't spend time in therapy, I could see how they can convince themselves they must be trans. They would then go down the path, and at some point, start to question themselves.

[SeptagonScars]

If someone doesn't spend time in therapy, I could see how they can convince themselves they must be trans. They would then go down the path, and at some point, start to question themselves.

That's pretty much how it became for me, except I did spend time in therapy... although I didn't make any effort in therapy. I was stubborn and had already made up my mind even before the start of gender therapy. I was in that therapy for around 4 years before I got any medical treatments, which is much longer than the standard. I had very little trust in therapists already back then, because I kept being treated as though I just wanted attention, so I trusted my own judgement more than any doctor's.

I think I was let down both by myself and the medical health care in my area at that time, but ofc it was much more complicated than that. The gender therapist didn't ruin my trust in docs, but other kinds of therapists before them had. But they confirmed my mistrust by treating me badly too, until I changed to another clinic. Now I live elsewhere and have connections with better therapists. I've regained some trust for psychiatry, at least enough to give it an honest chance and sort out my trauma, etc.

Therapy is good, in general, but it's not gonna be of much help when you already feel like you cannot trust the health care system and you feel like you're on your own, cause of bad previous experiences. But I also don't tend to assume others to have those same kind of trust issues as I have. Or I really hope they don't.

[Cailan Jerika]

To me, detransitioning doesn't necessarily mean you're not trans. I think for many people the price of transitioning is too high - loss of job, loss of family, the uncertainty of physical safety in public. For some the price is too high for a transition. But failure to transition, or a detransition after HRT or surgery, isn't necessarily a sign of not being trans. It is the realization that transitioning came with a higher price than continuing to live with dysphoria.

I'm fortunate, I'm AFAB non-binary - bi-gender, both male and female, usually in turns, but sometimes both are present at the same time. My own transition is pretty much invisible to outsiders, unless I make a point of it. I am transitioning my body, I already had top surgery, and I have a bottom surgery consult (for meta, not phallo) in January. I need my body to be fully male. But I almost always present fully femme, and love it. I am happy in both male and female presentations, both reflect the inner me, or a part of the inner me - but I rarely present male because I simply don't want to deal with the social fallout. Also I believe the femme styling is more attractive on my body type (even after more than a year on T), and I put great value on appearances.

So, how you define "detransition" is a big fat hairy deal. If it simply means "no longer presenting as a gender other than birth sex" then you get a *lot* of people who detransition. If it means to realize you were never transgender in the first place - then I believe (and the studies back it up) it's very rare; fewer than 3% according to the latest numbers I saw.

[SeptagonScars]

To me, detransitioning doesn't necessarily mean you're not trans. I think for many people the price of transitioning is too high - loss of job, loss of family, the uncertainty of physical safety in public. For some the price is too high for a transition. But failure to transition, or a detransition after HRT or surgery, isn't necessarily a sign of not being trans. It is the realization that transitioning came with a higher price than continuing to live with dysphoria.

I'm fortunate, I'm AFAB non-binary - bi-gender, both male and female, usually in turns, but sometimes both are present at the same time. My own transition is pretty much invisible to outsiders, unless I make a point of it. I am transitioning my body, I already had top surgery, and I have a bottom surgery consult (for meta, not phallo) in January. I need my body to be fully male. But I almost always present fully femme, and love it. I am happy in both male and female presentations, both reflect the inner me, or a part of the inner me - but I rarely present male because I simply don't want to deal with the social fallout. Also I believe the femme styling is more attractive on my body type (even after more than a year on T), and I put great value on appearances.

So, how you define "detransition" is a big fat hairy deal. If it simply means "no longer presenting as a gender other than birth sex" then you get a *lot* of people who detransition. If it means to realize you were never transgender in the first place - then I believe (and the studies back it up) it's very rare; fewer than 3% according to the latest numbers I saw.

That's what I think is true as well. That most who detransition weren't actually always cis. Its very few who go back to like identifying as their bio sex. Most detrans (it seems) just stop and/or reverse their transitions but are still at heart the gender they transitioned to. Financial reasons and transphobia are common factors for making that decision. I think the definition of "detransition" is someone who stops and/or reverses their transition. And it can be a change in identity, which is usually referred to as "reidentification".

[Sno]

It's interesting taking a little time here and there to read some of the posts that have passed by, whilst life is busy.

Our view is fairly black and white - we believe that the binary never question their gender seriously, which, yes makes the trans population quite large.

For some of us, it's a switch from one to another, to remain. For others it's a fluid journey, where we have to respond to our true selves as required. That fluidity may be slow - from one to another, and back; or it may be fast swings between them, but anyone who feels this is a welcome part of our community - even if it is protracted self exploration, they will end up with a very different perspective on the world than those who are a part of the cis community, no parts or fractions, no 'you were, but you're not now' once steps on the rainbow have been taken, you'll always be a part of it all.

Would a slow tempo fluidity be less stigmatised than the word detransition.? We don't know.

(Hugs)

Rowan