I'm afraid of North Korea

[Kylo]

NK leaders tend to threaten everyone around them, but this comes from their position being terribly weak. They desperately want to be strong, and they aren't, so they posture and threaten... partially perhaps because they really don't know much about how the outside world works, partly because they think it works, and partly because they have to keep up the pretence they are a strong nation to their own people.

They have a dozen or so nukes apparently, they can't seem to test a missile successfully lately, their soldiers are so malnourished they need afternoon naps... and as crazy as the leaders are even they must know if they strike anyone with a nuke, Pyongyang will be a smoking crater within the hour.

[Paige]

Hi All,

A couple of things to consider.  They don't need a missile to use their bomb.  It's quite conceivable they could smuggle a nuclear weapon into SK or Japan or even the US.  When you consider how they were able to smuggle so much technology into NK to support their nuclear program, it's possible to believe they could smuggle a bomb out.  And remember you don't have to get it right into a country.  Just blowing an atomic bomb off the coast of a big city could cause tremendous damage.

With that said it would be a suicide move.  If it could be be traced back to them it would guarantee their annihilation.  But what happens if you back them into a corner with no hope?  Do you force a move that could cause such a scenario?

Also remember, even though most of the world has forgotten about the Korean War, they haven't.  It was a terribly bloody affair.  Are they totally irrational?  Or are they extremely paranoid based on past history?  Sure some of this has been used to keep one family in power, but there's a long memory of the death and destruction that was inflicted.

As was said earlier South Korea, especially Seoul, is particularly vulnerable.  Their guns may be old but there's a lot of them and a lot of soldiers willing to fight.  They could inflict tremendous damage before the world could respond.

This isn't an easy situation, it never has been.  Anyone who thinks there's an easy answer or thinks all that's needed is some tough talk, needs to seriously look at the facts.  It may not be that dangerous for American citizens but it's a different story if you live in South Korea.

Take care,
Paige
   

[Tessa James]

Well, we all died on December 21 2012.... We just dont know it yet

So all that practice with Zombies was mere prelude to ......

[RobynD]

So all that practice with Zombies was mere prelude to ......

If this is the afterlife, i want my money back

The hermit kingdom that is North Korea is really an interesting thing. It would be more comical if he did not kill his own people and put them in "rehabilitation camps", but i guess that is how a despot rolls.

I don't worry about being nuked from there i do worry about a conflict and collapse effect on world markets etc. At some point that country should be reunified.

[Kylo]

I don't think any change is going to come from within. This is the third generation of leaders of the same family and it looks set to continue so long as they have isolation and complete control of all media within the country.

So far US have been paying them aid money with the condition they not develop their nukes and every single time they take the money and continue development. That strategy didn't work then and it won't work now. Sanctions probably won't work either as I wouldn't be surprised they get aid money under the table regardless. Really NK should not have been allowed by its neighbors to reach this point but it's spilt milk now. At some point NK will probably have to be "dealt with", as its continual threats and increasing nuclear power isn't something anyone wants.

[Jessica Lynne]

 I don't believe we've given them spit since 2009.

I don't think any change is going to come from within. This is the third generation of leaders of the same family and it looks set to continue so long as they have isolation and complete control of all media within the country.

So far US have been paying them aid money with the condition they not develop their nukes and every single time they take the money and continue development. That strategy didn't work then and it won't work now. Sanctions probably won't work either as I wouldn't be surprised they get aid money under the table regardless. Really NK should not have been allowed by its neighbors to reach this point but it's spilt milk now. At some point NK will probably have to be "dealt with", as its continual threats and increasing nuclear power isn't something anyone wants.

[MistressStevie]

War is a very significant economic activity.  Prolonged war even more so.   
North Korea has a hard time feeding its people.   Pictures of North Korea
at night suggest the infrastructure is many decades behind the rest of
the world.  While they may talk a good talk, the economic prowess to
effectively practice military activities beyond their borders are highly
suspect.   

I am not sure what actions on their behalf would attract the bombing
to send them further back in their particular stone age, but I would
prefer that we start trading with them before that line is crossed.   

Democratic Peace Theory suggests that trading partners, particularly,
representative democracies trading partners, are significantly less
likely to involve themselves in wars.   Trade between the Koreas
would unify the peninsula faster than any other activity. 

My son referred me to the McDonald's Hypothesis that countries
who share McDonald's do not go to war with each other.  I do not
know that is true, but I love the idea. 

[Kylo]

The problem with that is that NK has been trading natural resources for some time but it hasn't lessened the grip of the regime or changed their attitudes at all. There's a documentary available in which some interviewers go into NK and are escorted around by a Spanish representative (this person readily acknowledges his allegiance to the NK state and his worth as a propagandist to our visitors) and in one scene you can see him denying there are any American multinational corporations operating in NK or any corrupting multinational products. Hilariously, behind him as he speaks is a Coke vending machine.

It's 2017 and NK has been trading, but still firing missiles into the Sea of Japan, pointing its artillery at Seoul and threatening to nuke Guam.

[Dena]

North Korea is a kingdom and the only concern of the upper class is that there is enough of what they want. They don't care about the remainder of the population as long as the people don't revolt and remove them from power. The missiles are more to make sure we don't remove them from power and so the people believe the country has a powerful military. North Korea would also like some more money for not firing their missiles or in other words, nuclear blackmail. The truth is if they hit the United States, 90 minutes latter North Korea will be smoking rubble. They are playing a dangerous game and I am not sure just how far North Korea will go.

[barbie]

The national defense budget of S. Korea is more than 40 times greater than N. Korea. While NK has successfully developed satellites and technically the same ICBMs, S. Korea spectacularly failed twice launching a satellite even with Russian help in 2009 and 2010. https://m.csmonitor.com/World/2010/0611/Why-did-South-Korea-s-rocket-launch-fail

The main reason of the difference I think is that the strong dictator in NK can punish anybody in charge of corruption in defense industry mercilessly, but it is difficult to punish, and corruption in defense is so much widespread in S. Korea. For example, http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/802951.html

NK has been determined to protect themselves from any U.S. aggression since 1953, now eventually by nuclear weapons deliverable to the U.S continent. That is the essential base and ideological ground of their regime existence. NK is very small, weak and fragile country, but their determination can not be underestimated. When the US and S. Korea underestimated their power and willingness, the Korean war started in 1950. NK korea can kill millions of S. Korean by their conventional artillery alone. They do not need nuclear weapons or missiles to attack S. Korea. ICBMs are for striking the U.S.

China will never allow a country with the U.S. military in their neighborhood, as they showed in 1951 during the Korean war.

I live in S. Korea and most of people here understand well the geopolitical dynamics of the Korean peninsula. No country among the U.S., China, Russia and Japan wants a unified Korea, not to mention the 2nd Korean war. The status quo is the best for them. Therefore I sleep very well whatever Kim or Trump bull>-bleeped-<. At first, I thought Kim is predictable but Trump is not, causing a lot of concern here. But I know think both are predictable and at least are not crazy men.

barbie~~

[OU812]

Rather than any large-scale military actions, on a personal safety level I'd be far more concerned about NK trying the really underhanded stuff: abducting hostages, letting loose a bio-weapon, or something along those lines, and then demanding concessions. All of which they could do with relative ease.

[Kylo]

Yeah, that's true, they haven't been above trying to blow up commercial airliners in mid-air and things of that sort.

[Paige]

Yeah, that's true, they haven't been above trying to blow up commercial airliners in mid-air and things of that sort.

To play the devil's advocate:

The US is the only country to have used nuclear weapons against another country and it probably has quite a few currently pointed at North Korea. 

The US has a long history of overthrowing governments. 

During the course of the three-year war, which both sides accuse one another of provoking, the U.S. dropped 635,000 tons of explosives on North Korea, including 32,557 tons of napalm, an incendiary liquid that can clear forested areas and cause devastating burns to human skin. (In constrast, the U.S. used 503,000 tons of bombs during the entire Pacific Theater of World War Two, according to a 2009 study by the Asia-Pacific Journal.)

The US spends more on it's military than the next 8 countries combined.

People don't think North Korea is rational.  I think any rational person put in their situation would feel very threaten.  This doesn't mean I agree with the North Korean government but I can understand why they opted to acquire nuclear weapons.

Here's another interesting take on the current situation.

https://theintercept.com/2017/08/17/the-north-korea-standoff-like-the-cuban-missile-crisis-exposes-the-reckless-u-s-worldview/

Paige

[flower1221]

I wouldn't worry about yourself here in the USA. If something happens it could kill hundreds of thousands in Seoul. Which would be devastating, that is the leverage NO has

[Jessica_Rose]

DPRK reminds me of a book (and movie) back in the 1970's called 'The Mouse That Roared'. Basically a tiny European country (the Duchy of Gran Fenwick) with 18th century technology was on the verge of bankruptcy. They decided the best way to get caught up to the rest of the world was to start a war with the U.S. They would lose of course, but then the U.S. would give them money to rebuild. Granted the DPRK is a bit more advanced than the Duchy of Gran Fenwick and they could inflict serious casualties at the start of a conflict, but the DPRK is so far behind the rest of the world in almost every category that I can't help but wonder if they are the modern version of 'The Mouse That Roared'.

[Jenntrans]

Has anyone ever noticed why Kim Jung Un is so fat when everyone else around him is so skinny? I have and that is because he gets plenty of food and nutrition while the rest of North Korea is starving to death. So yeah we should bomb the North Koreans but with propaganda instead of Nukes.. Yes North Korea supposedly has ICBMs now as of the last test that can strike in the US but when you only hit one and we bust your ass and annihilate you then Mr. Kim will starve too. He does not want that.

Has anyone ever heard of the Pusan Perimeter? When we got involved in the Korean conflict the only area South Korea occupied was right around Pusan and we kicked their asses back way north of the 38th parallel. Then the Chinese got involved and the US politicians brought McArthur back and basically forced him to retire because Gen. Douglas McArthur wanted to push North Korea into Mongolia. So without the Chinese and then Russia arming the Chinese we would not have North and South Korea nowadays.

I was in South Korea and it was not that much different other than the hair color, the language, the writing and so on than NYC and the United States. We have Hyundai and Daewoo that are exported to the US or at least still Hyundai but what vehicles does North Korea Manufacture? I have seen North Korean Television and it is just as bad as TV in the states during the "70s. Check out some youtube videos and see the difference in traffic from Seoul South Korea to Pyongyang North Korea. If I visited South Korea today I would not be limited to where I can go and what I can do other than a language barrier. If I went to North Korea I would be extremely limited for what a government tour guide allowed me to see or go.

While in South Korea I have seen some pretty hefty South Koreans. I did not nor still see that in North Korea. I worked with a guy that was 10 when the conflict broke out and he loved Americans. His parent loved Americans too. They would always host a Christmas party at their home. The guy I worked with was around 50 at the time and his dad was over 70 and some of the >-bleeped-< he would tell us about North Korea and their lives their horrified me. So three generations of Kims ruling the country. I can just imagine how bad it is now. Not too much shakes me but I still remember that man's stories. I also remember what he told us about how he got down there with his family and the >-bleeped-< they went through.

Yes we should bomb them with the way the West really is but Jesus Christ. They live just north of the 38th parallel and they should be able to see the difference. I really feel sorry for the North Korean people though.

Who invented the Humburger? Well to North Koreans it was Kim Jung Il I think? He called it meat between two breads or something like that. Well the Hamburger was invented during the World's Fair and I really can't remember the date but I think maybe St Louis. So yeas this country has been oppressed for so long that the people are happy to get a ball of rice from the government every year. All while I can eat steak every night if I want.

[MaryT]

I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"

[Jenntrans]

I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"

This is the difference between Russia and China compared to North Korea. The latter two don't want MAD. The United States does not want that too but we get a mad man that fires a Nuke at NYC then what do we do? Just let it go?

Yes we should be concerned because "lil kim" pretty much is nothing more than a blowhard but neither China nor Russia will let it happen. They would probably take Kim Jung Un out before he fired the ICBM. Talking tough though is a good strategy. OMG if you think that the US is a paternalistic society or culture then South Korea is ten fold and I would not now how much that North Korea is. I won't go into all that but you should know from some of my previous posts.

[Roll]

The bigger issue isn't North Korea itself, it's North Korean weapons eventually falling into the hands of groups like ISIS. Though frankly, I think the bigger problem is more in the weaponized small pox arena than it is nuclear weapons to begin with.

... Wow, that was way more casually depressing than I meant it to be.

[Julia1996]

I think that President Trump's threats to North Korea are an attempt to trigger the assassination or overthrow of Kim Jong Un.  Ironically, that is unlikely unless he loosens his grip on power.

I think that we should all be very, very concerned.  North Korea may not have any real friends but China will not be happy if the US destroys, or takes over, a country on its doorstep.  Also, since China has been building islands in the Philippines archipelago, China itself has been regarded by many as a clear and present danger to world peace. 

Because of Western sanctions, Russia has been cosying up to China.  If NK triggers a war, the US and it allies could be up against both China and Russia.  A few years ago, it took Russia just 15 minutes to destroy the armoured divisions of the Ukrainian army.  I doubt that any country with the exception of the USA would last much longer even in a conventional war.  And since the war must be won at any cost, both sides would inevitably turn to nuclear weapons.  For a variety of reasons, clean neutron bombs would not be regarded as sufficient. 

Don't panic, though.  Remember the old advice from the Cold War period, which went something like this:

1. Stay away from windows and glassware.
2. Loosen your tie and any restrictive clothing.
3. Empty your pockets of pens, pencils and any sharp objects.
4. Sit down.
5. Bend over and place your head between your legs, as you would prior to a 'plane crash.
6. Kiss your ass goodbye.

Or, as Bowser suggested, just
"Eat, drink and be merry - for tomorrow, you may not die after all!"

I actually saw one of those films from the 50s on the history channel. They have kids at school duck under their desks. What difference does it make if your incinerated at the desk or under it? Then they said if you were outside to curl up in a ball against a building when you see the flash. If you see the flash you're going to be a black shadow burned into the wall of that building before you have time to curl up in a ball. Then they showed bomb shelters people actually built into their houses. Usually in basements. A basement is totally not going to shield you from the heat blast. Did people really believe all that ridiculous crap in those old safety films?  And why lie and tell people they could survive a nuclear blast when they didn't have a prayer of living through it? It makes no sense. Actually I saw a movie about a nuclear attack. It was called the day after and I was trying to order the day after tomorrow and got that one by mistake.  But since I had ordered it I figured I might as well watch it. It's an old movie from the 70s but it was very graphic. It showed people turn to ashes or melt when the bomb detonated and the aftermath. It was a horrible movie. I don't know why anyone would ever make such a horrific movie. I can't imagine it would ever be shown in movie theaters but it must have been at sometime.