I've explored some things and still there are no answers. Can anyone help me?

[Orangejuice]

I'm sorry for this. It's all I know how to do. Write it all out. It's kinda the only thing there is. It's this or I cry. Or smash things. Or get in my car and drive and drive and drive until I'm just alone and realise I can't drive away from this. I posted here a bit around 2 years ago. But then it all just seemed pointless and selfish. Demanding people help me. But I'm back I guess. This my story with added stuff since then-

I have some very early memories aged 2-3 of going into the dressing up box with my sisters and family friends and liking putting the princess dresses on that were in there.

For as long as I can remember I lay in bed at night and fantasised about what it would be like if I got to wear the girls school uniform.

I had many dreams involving me being forced to wear girls clothes but secretly liking it. I had dreams where I'd look down at my body and physically see my genitals morph from male to female.

I went to school. Made friends with boys. Lived for sports. Began to think about girls in my class romantically quite young.

I had dreams where I 'hugged' girls and experienced a super intense orgasm-way more intense than anything that came later after puberty. In these dreams my legs were always around the girl and the physical sensation came from inside me.

I crossdressed really randomly and briefly if the chance arose to do it quickly and in secret.

I went to secondary school. Started having girlfriends. Liked it. Kissed them. Felt attracted to them.

I came across an article in a magazine about a boy who became a girl. I was fascinated and excited. It seemed like this incredible magic. I remember getting an erection when I read it too.

From then on I secretly, shamefully and excitedly watched any programme I could on TV about this idea that could change your sex. Got erections unthinkingly while doing so.

At school felt normal. In the 'jock' group. Good at sports and liked by girls. Loved it.

First wet dream during puberty was one where I had put in girls clothes and as I looked down at my body it morphed into a female shape as I put them on.

Crossdressed whenever the opportunity arose.

Was very late to masturbate for first time. Tried it but couldn't. No other sexual experiences other than kissing girlfriends. Shamefully looked at some trans porn-was able to do it. Then realised I could do it when I looked at pictures of women and imagined I was them. Stopped after a while because the shame was building up and I had a girlfriend.

Was building to the point we'd have sex. Despite liking being with her and kissing her and touching her body I didn't really want sex. It didn't feel like it was going to be pleasurable. Tried to visualise it and masturbate as a sort of training. Didn't work. When the time came. Couldn't do it. Hated it. It wasn't physically pleasurable enough down there for me to actually maintain an erection.

Broke up. Left school. At this point, excelled at sports, given positions of responsibility at school, a very 'laddy' group of close guy friends. Outside seemed normal but inside for first  time starting to feel different. Horrible. Broken.

Began to notice the difference in attitude regarding sex to my friends. Repulsed by the way they talk about it. And that it's all the want to talk about and do.

Began having wet dreams where I looked in the mirror and I was a girl. Looking at trans porn changed into looking at normal porn but imagining I was the girl and all the physical sensations she was experiencing.

Began also looking at more and more transitions of trans girls on the internet. Masturbated a lot to that. Not really knowing what I was thinking when I did it. Sometimes at the thought of being with them. Sometimes just the idea that you could change your gender. Sometimes at the thought that I could be just like them.

Began losing my hair at 18. My face became bonier. Completly and utterly depressed every time I saw my reflection. Like it wasn't me. Like me was sort of dead inside my head somewhere. Loathed my appearance to the point I found life pointless.

Put a brave face on it and tried to carry on with life. But feeling increasingly isolated and like a freak because of my feelings and how I felt about my appearance. Hated more and more the 'lad', 'sport' type environments I'd been a part of and were still the only thing I had. Avoided them. Became a loner. But good at giving the appearance I had stuff going on.

Spent probably 5-6 years in this state. Fantasising about being a woman. Having dreams about being a woman. Fantasising about being a woman with a man. Outside life emptying of everything. But careful to hide that.

Then one day something snapped 3 years ago and I thought I can't go on like this. I hated myself too much to live. I needed something to change. I asked myself the question-if HRT made you look like a passable girl, and you could live that life, would you want it? The answer was obviously yes.

Followed that impulse for a couple of weeks. Made an appointment with a private gender therapist. Came back down to earth with the realisation that there's no way I could pass as a female. All I'd be doing would be giving myself the negatives of being trans without the positives.(just for me-others might be different)

But kept my appointments. The masturbation, dreaming side of it was such a huge source of shame that agreed with the therapist to try a testosterone blocker-cyproterone acetate-for a short while. Either way-it'd help. I'd hate it-realise I'm not supposed to be without testosterone, or like it-and realise maybe I am. With the added bonus that it'd calm down the masturbation and shame in the meantime.

I felt really good first few days on it. Felt like it had cured my social anxiety. Felt less stressed out in public. No sweating. No anxiously observing every detail in my surroundings. My heart rate didn't start to thump at the smallest social interactions like it usually does. I actually felt like making small talk with people instead of getting through it until I could close the door behind me and be alone again. No living behind this filter. Just me reacting in real time like I've always felt everyone else does.  Also felt like the old me again before all of this. I felt like it was going to give me a bit of my life back. Actually felt a little bit like I was 'cured.' Like I'm not trans.

Physcally felt some odd stuff on the 6th day of taking it. Hands felt weirdly dry, but from the inside out, like they were kind of dying but I just shrugged it off.

Went to the gym and felt the oddest sensation. Doing sprints on the treadmill, at the very peak of pushing my body, I felt as calm as anything. So calm that I could nod off while simultaneously pushing my muscles as hard as they'd go. Just shrugged it off again. I knew it'd make me feel different so wasn't that fussed. But it was a really odd feeling to experience.

That night I masturbated for the first time on it. A couple of times. Felt very odd. A very different sensation than normal when I orgasmed. Like two conflicting things were happening in my head.

Went to sleep. Woke up with the most terrifying sensation in my head. Like my head was so relaxed it was going to cut off from my body. Like I couldn't trust it to stay opconnected to my heart and my lungs and the thighs keeping me alive. Will just sound like a bunch of nonsense probably but like was going to die basically. Went to A and E. They did and ECG and some blood tests and sent me home.

Over the next 2 weeks-

Intense pain in my insides. Like I could feel the structure of my internal organs and they were all burning, most terrifyingly-my heart.

Hands and feet noticeable more translucent, with veins appearing visible in them that weren't before.

Horrible chemically burning taste in the back of my throat.

Weird pulses all over my body. Like little tiny spots in my veins were twitching. Uncomfortable when at its worst. Like a knot in my body deep down that made me feel sick.

Eyes visibly more bloodshot than they had been.

Uncomfortable feeling with my heartbeat, like it was one minute weak, then having to surge through something to actually pump.

Had a couple more of those moments where I was watching TV and felt so relaxed that it was like I couldn't trust my brain to stay on. Terrifying. Went to A and E twice more. Same story. Could tell they thought it was anxiety.

The next 2-6 months-

Same sensations as described above, but thankfully they lessened.

Began noticing every so often I would bring up blood form the back of my throat.

Odd feelings persisted when exercising. Lightheadedness, weird knot sensation in different parts of my body, uncomfortable heartbeat, that scary feeling of my head being too relaxed to keep functioning, like I couldn't trust it to stay alive, would happen in the few hours after exercise.

For about 2 years avoided exercise. Got fat, unhealthy, and with that unhappy.

Had brain scan and an ultrasound thing on my heart. Sought out an Endrocrinologist to do some basic tests. Not sure what he actually checked for. I lied to him about why I was there. Told him I'd taken cyproterone acetate for a sex addiction. Awful experience. Asked me questions about being a criminal. In short he didn't take me seriously from the start, and he had never heard of Cyproterone Acetate, but did some tests and came back fine so that was the end of the road medically. Had to to just get on with my life in the assumption that everything physically is ok.

Which brings me to the last year or so-

Started going to the gym again. Just work through the odd sensations. Still very much there. Lightheadedness more than usual. Sometimes a slightly uncomfortable feeling with my heartbeat but way less than before thankfully. Usually ok once into the flow of things. Worse when say just walking up a hill than sprinting or lifting weights. Just doing mild exercise I'll get this cold kind of chill around my heart which feels disconcerting. And I'll sweat tons. More than is normal.

Also some of the odd feelings are worsened after masturbation, which to my shame I cannot stop.

On the whole have learnt to live with the physical feelings on the assumption that doctors say I'm fine. But things still don't feel right about my body. My hands are still noticeable more translucent. They cut really easily without me noticing. Then take forever to heal and look like they'll get infected. Then leave scars which look permanent. Only noticed this with small scratches until recently when I had a fairly large graze on the back of my hand which has left a fairly large scar. Can life with it but it's scary thinking about getting older and what Is actually causing this. I lose sensation in my hand and feet away more than before.

Anyway, at the point where I can just get on with things physically which is a relief given how bad the first 2-3 weeks were and then the following 6 months or so.

But now I'm still dealing with all the old feelings before I took the drug in the first place. I've been seeing another counsellor on the NHS with gender experience which has been good to talk to someone. And now I'm hopefully a couple of months away from an actual gender clinic appointment. It'll be good to discuss all this with someone who hoepefully has experience of prescribing Cyproterone Acetate. ( should say-I was so scared and so ashamed and also so out of money that when I started feeling ill I just sent a quick email to the private gender therapist I had been seeing, the one who prescribed the drug in the first place, and once she responded with she thought it was anxiety I just wanted to forget her and forget I'd ever done this to myself. I just wanted to bide my time and wait for my body to return to normal, which it hasn't completely but has improved thank god. It was then that I thought this time I'm going to go through this under supervision all the way talking to my GP and getting the proper referrals, rather than just calling up a private therapist myself. I felt so ashamed about the feelings in the first place and then on top of that that they'd lead me to do this to my body) But regardless I don't see what can actually happen about anything. I just feel trapped in this constant nightmare.

I can't look female if I decided that I was trans. I'm 28 and severely big boned and half way bald.

I can't 'express" myself differently because that's never been it for me. The thought of 'acting girly' makes me want to vomit despite the fact that I want to look like one. I just want of be comfortable in my skin and that comes from my appearance first and then I know my actions would be natural if I were female. The other way around sounds like a nightmare to me.

And can I even contemplate the idea of taking any medication again given the whole nightmare I've been through with taking the cyproterone for just 6 days?

I can't have a guy life anymore. Not one that makes me feel good anyway. I feel too diffferent. I carry these thoughts around with me like a stone dragging me underwater. How could I have a wife when increasingly on my mind I desire to be a woman with a man? How could I have kids with those same thoughts in my head?

And yet, being 'one of the guys' is the only thing I know how to do. I'm crap at it and I hate the rules of the game. But I'd rather try and fail at it than somehow wake up tomorrow and 'act female'. I don't even know what that would entail.

Basically its all about my physical appearance and always has been. So I have two options-

Follow that impulse and take HRT and try to look like how my heart wants to look. Which I can't. That's unrealistic. It will never happen. So it will just bring me all the uncomfortableness of 'acting', while having the only 'me' that there is destroyed in the eyes of friends and family.

Or try and live with this feeling and be happy. I need techniques on how to put it from my mind.

I need to wake up from a sex dream where I am a woman having sex with a man and feel comfortable and confident about the future, not dirty and broken and doomed.

I need to learn to lessen the time this desire takes up in my head. There's a painting on the wall behind my seat at work. It's of a woman. Every time I see it I have flashes of this feeling, and then quickly onto-I'm broken and there's no future for me.

That's what I need help with. I don't need someone to come on here and tell me that HRT is amazing and you can pass. It's not impossible. Just improbable. In fact, scrap that. It wouldn't be about passing. I probably could pass. With the right clothing. But I'd still take my top off and see a body that doesn't look feminine. A lump of bone and straight lines with odd fat distribution and breasts. I'd still look down at my feet every morning and be reminded that how I want to look is impossible. I'd take off a wig every night and be reminded of the same.

So what I need is help. Help to be the guy I thought I was going to be. The only time I'm happy is when I think I can get back to that. I mean that is almost never but every so often a few days come along where I feel like I see a chink of light ahead of me. It is always smothered sooner or later by attacks of my desire to physically look female, or by trying to satisfy my sexual urges but feeling like I need to imagine I have a female body to do it. But nonetheless, it's the happiest I am, for those brief moments where I see light.

So I need help to keep all this at bay. I need help from CBT type techniques, or from meditation, just something.  I'm constantly scouring the latest brain science relating to how we think, what makes us who we are, the reality of the universe, religion-anything at all that makes my problem seem like it might be bearable one day.

Really I need help. I just need help. Help that I can't see where it's going to come from., who's going to give it, or what it is. I'm so far gone out of answers that I don't even have the answer to why should I live anymore.

Right now I pray each night that I'll wake up in a different universe.
When I don't the hopelessness is unbearable and I think about suicide more and more.

[stephaniec]

the only thing I'm able to say is try to find a really good therapist or a support group with people going through the same thing. Ive been on HRT for 4 years and still have to fight with my old self over dominion .

[Janes Groove]

Have you considered asking your doctor about spironolactone?  I think it does the same thing as cyproterone acetate but with it you may not have the bad side effects you describe.

[CarlyMcx]

Hi Orangejuice.  I remember you being here back near the beginning of my own journey.  I read your post and a lot of what you describe seems like physiological manifestations of anxiety.  The anxiety can be caused by dysphoria, or could be caused by using an antiandrogen without using estrogen.

You really might want to try spironolactone as an antiandrogen.  Cyproterone acetate can have some bad side effects such as vitamin B12 deficiency and adrenal insufficiency according to online sources.  But this is only what I have read.  Cyproterone acetate is not approved in the U.S. where I live.

You should really see a therapist.  Estrogen might be a big help with your anxiety.  It was with me.  I also found that any expression of femininity, even if I am not passable, helped my anxiety and dysphoria.

I hope things turn out well for you.

Hugs, Carly

[Orangejuice]

Hi thanks for the responses particularly if you read all of that. Crazy long. I just don't know how to sum up what im going through. Even to a therapist. (Hi Carly I think I may remember you from before responding really nicely to me so thanks!)

I have been seeing one. Well a counsellor with experience in trans issues. They are really good. But I've run out of NHS appointments with them. Been on a waiting list for the actual NHS gender clinic where I live for a while now which should be a couple of months away. So when I do I will be planning on asking about Spironolactone. I guess the worry would be that a Dr can't pinpoint what is physically wrong and it may just be some unknown reaction to blocking my testosterone. (It's very complex the way the Cyproterone seems to work-interferes with brain process involved in all sort of feedback loops-the closest diagnosis I could get to would be a malfunctioning cortisol level-but no Dr has seen fit to check for that-but again, none I ever spoke to had even heard of Cyproterone) In which case would I be inviting the same possibility taking Spironolactone (if I even wanted it take it) All of this is why it will be good to talk to someone when I get my appointment at the gender clinic.

If it is anxiety then great. All my instincts say it's something physcially that went haywire when I took the drug. But I guess no one with anxiety thinks it's anxiety. But then that really messes with your head too. Because once you've got that diagnosis-you're just supposed to ignore every single pain and feeling you've got. Which I did. Happily. Extremely happily. And yet things didn't get better for ages.

Thinking about it all last night- I think I just need to know what I am. I could put up with anything I think then. But it's like I've got two very conflicting desires that can never be reconciled.

I want to be female. But as it's always been so physical for me.-want to look in the mirror naked with no make up or wig or anything that would be required and see female looking back at me. That can't happen. So desire no. 1 that drives me is impossible.

And desire no.2 is to hold on to all the parts of me that have been comfortable and likeable and seemed like I was gong to be a fairly normal guy in my teens before this unravelled everything. But the desires are so present in my mind that that can't happen either. Like I said how could I have a wife or kids while knowing these things are in my head constantly. I can't get them out no matter how hard I try. So desire no 2 can't happen.

Which leaves me trapped in this absolute nightmare.

[Daniellekai]

Well I know you said you didn't want this, but I guess it depends on how much you've started to bald, some of the medications used for HRT were originally to combat balding (still are really), if you've got access you could get hair implants it transplants... This is something that just doesn't go away in our collective experience, among those of us who decide not to transition, they just try to manage the dysphoria through various methods like low dose HRT (some still feminize a lot on that though, ymmv), occasional cross-dressing or drag shows, etc.

The only thing that seems to make it just go away is transition, my aunt was born without a hair on her body, being bald isn't a male only problem, it seems like you're coming at this from the wrong angles, but have trouble finding another way. Even if you can't afford it now, there are surgeries for basically any problem you might have passing that were developed for cis women with the exact same problem.  Having said that, you'll probably be surprised at just how much HRT can change, if you've seen the same before and afters I have, there are some doozies out there. I'm also overweight BTW, I've found just watching calories and practicing intermittent fasting has gotten me to a point where I'll be the correct weight eventually, every week I either lose weight or stay about the same.

Am endocrinologist who's familiar with transgender people would undoubtedly be able to help with your side effects as well.  Transgender hrt is a pretty specialized field, there aren't too many doctors with experience in it, so it's important to find one that has some, wait list can be a mile long though...

[dusty97]

At the very least, continue with the therapy.
From reading through your whole post, it seems to me like you have alot of past, pent up feelings that you need to either find an outlet for or deal with in some way.
Freud would be ecstatic to help you (he believed that unconscious, repressed desires influenced our every conscious thought), but unfortunately I'm not that great master of psychoanalysis, and can't tell you exactly what you need to do or whats going on with you, and only you REALLY know what's going on inside. Only you can tell yourself what you need to do.

I feel like I can empathize with you a bit, in the very least, so here's a summary of my story and two conflicting sides:
I've had these thoughts and desires about transitioning to be a male for a very long time- I can remember when I was a kid I was obsessed with being able to "use the bathroom" like my brother, inventing all sorts of things when I could and hoping noone would find them. When I was in middle/high school, I seriously considered it and even talked extensively about it to my girlfriend, and had my mind made up to the point where I told one of my friends "I hate being a girl. I wish I could just be a boy already." Unfortunately, friend's little sister was in the room and ran to tell very conservative mother what I said- his mother called mine, long story short, I made a cover story for myself that I was ranting about my period and she must have mis-understood. Hated lying about it, though, and I can remember being very selective about my words and who I was saying them around. Basically what I'm saying is transitioning has always been a question for me, and I would love very much to do so and be a masculine person and see someone with stubble, broad shoulders, no breasts, and visible muscles looking back at me out of the mirror. We all have this picture in our head of who we want to be, and mine includes me being about 5'8" as a guy. But, there's no hope for that as I'm 4'11" and probably won't ever get much taller, I doubt T would make a difference in height.

However, every Sunday, I'm reminded of all the things I would lose that are important to me as a Mormon. A temple wedding, for one, being sealed to my spouse and family for all eternity. It would mean I would be barred from ever entering a temple, for that matter. I would  no longer be able to attend relief society (the meeting for women) but I would also be excluded from priesthood meetings (held the same hour as relief society, but for men). I wouldn't have a place in the church anymore. They would basically revoke my right to call myself a baptized Mormon, and I doubt they'd even continue to allow me to even partake of the sacrament.

Both of these things are and always have been parts of my life, and I can't sort out which one means more to me. I keep hoping that they'll announce some new policy so I won't have to make the decision, but I also know that with them still frowning upon same-sex couples, it won't be happening any time soon and I'll have to make the decision eventually. I know I will have to do what makes me happy in the end, but I suppose it's a question of what will make me more happy...

Bottom line is, nobody can tell you what to do. We can listen, boy can we listen. We can give advice and share anecdotes that may or may not be helpful. We can be here to support you in whatever decision you make. But we cannot tell you what will be right for you.
There is always the option to try transitioning, and if it doesn't feel right, de-transition. Then at least you might have the peace of mind that "hey, I tried it." And that's better than not ever trying, and not ever knowing. How does a person know if they liked cake, if they never tried cake? You have to taste it before you can know whether or not it's right for you.

EDIT I thought about this literally five minutes after I posted. I am NOT suggesting you take the decision to try transitioning lightly in the slightest. Given your dysphoria though, it may be something to seriously look at talking about with a gender therapist. DO NOT make rash decisions, not that you really CAN as you kind of have to have medical approval and guidance, but its not something that you can reverse instantly or shed all of the effects of. This might be common sense, but I felt the need to clarify myself here, just in case. END EDIT

As far as the medication thing goes, that sounds absolutely awful and I'm very sorry that happened to you. I can only wish you the best of luck with any future endeavors (or lack-there-of) and suggest that you ask to be monitored for the first few days due to your past reactions with hormone-related drugs. 

That's just my two-cents, though.

[Rowena_Ellenweorc]

If it is anxiety then great. All my instincts say it's something physcially that went haywire when I took the drug. But I guess no one with anxiety thinks it's anxiety. But then that really messes with your head too. Because once you've got that diagnosis-you're just supposed to ignore every single pain and feeling you've got. Which I did. Happily. Extremely happily. And yet things didn't get better for ages.

Okay read through your entire OP... read the responses, and I'm afraid I'm not much help, I'm just mostly a viewer on this page since I'm only just starting to figure things out myself.  But I CAN tell you that the quoted bolded part kinda bugged me a bit.  I think there are multiple points in your story where docs have said its anxiety, and that's kinda what they do is know about it.  But even still, who the hell cares if other people say its NOT anxiety because its different from their anxiety.  And as someone who suffers from anxiety, on and off meds for it my whole life, I totally think your doctors could be right and its anxiety.  Those are all definitely symptoms, and these feelings you are having are HUUUUUUGE triggers.

From what you've said, I'm gathering you're still working on getting into better situation medically for your issue, and that you've done the therapist route but have run out of what is covered, right?  That's definitely a good for you thing though, and for now, you're in this moment of 'can't really do anything about it'... which is hard, and probably the most triggersome for anxiety.  Especially since you're not having any problems show up on tests.   I'm thinking if you follow the advice of others, especially when you get into that gender clinic, you may start feeling better too. 

And maybe try some good coping techniques, and from what I gather, you still have a general practictioner you can see right?  Maybe talk to the doc about the multiple doctors who've guessed its anxiety, see if he can prescribe you some medication for it that won't interact with any other meds you are taking (I couldn't quite tell if you're still on that T-blocker), especially till you get to the gender clinic.

You can look up some good coping methods, but really coping methods are personal and different for each person. But generally, some good general coping methods are the following:
Hobby - have something you enjoy that takes you away from thinking
Exercise - you mentioned you've done this, but its also possible to overdo it, and maybe this is the case.  It can be something as simple as taking a walk outside.  Doesn't have to be long
Sunlight - for some reason, its a good anti-depressant/anti-anxiety.  Again, even just a short walk will help...
Writing down your emotions - no matter how non-sensical they seem.
Don't overdo it.
Get 8-10 hours of sleep.
There are another of coping mechanisms for anxiety, but I think personally those are some of the best ones.  And it may just be mine.

Anyway, its just a thought that maybe to try that, just to try and make it to place where you can get clinical help again, cause sometimes, we just can't figure it out on our own right?

Sorry I'm not very helpful with your other concerns, but I figure maybe if the docs are right and anxiety is a big factor in it, maybe it will help, and I do suffer from anxiety myself.

[bubbles21]

Cyproterone Acetate is androcur. Another girl told me about this so i got My doctor to put me on it because of how strong it was and I wanted to rush things. Worse mistake i've ever made. My anxiety went through the roof and I ended up suicidal. I would warn anyone against taking that horrible drug and stick to spironolactone. I would find that i would be fine but once i took that tablet i would get angry or upset and extremely anxious & in the end it wasn't worth it. Horrible horrible drug. Change to spiro immediately if you can.

[Sephirah]

I'd just like to ask a few questions if that's okay. There are a few things in your posts which I wonder about.

You mentioned that you had dreams where you morphed from male to female. Where you underwent a process of change from one gender to another. Do you feel that was significant in any way? Not the beginning and end, but the change itself?

Also, well, this is easy to ask, but may be very, very hard to answer. Both of these desires you have that you believe are impossible to achieve. My question to both is "Why?" Why do you feel you want them? What is it about having... or achieving each one that would make you feel more at peace?

I'm not so sure these desires are as conflicting as you think, sweetie. And I have a suspicion they both come from the same place. Which is why I am interested in your answers.

[Orangejuice]

Got to that place I always end up where I realise it's only really me that can figure this out. But re-visiting this I am amazed at the responses and that people have taken the time to read through my extremely long post. Thank you so much!

I'd just like to ask a few questions if that's okay. There are a few things in your posts which I wonder about.

You mentioned that you had dreams where you morphed from male to female. Where you underwent a process of change from one gender to another. Do you feel that was significant in any way? Not the beginning and end, but the change itself?

Also, well, this is easy to ask, but may be very, very hard to answer. Both of these desires you have that you believe are impossible to achieve. My question to both is "Why?" Why do you feel you want them? What is it about having... or achieving each one that would make you feel more at peace?

I'm not so sure these desires are as conflicting as you think, sweetie. And I have a suspicion they both come from the same place. Which is why I am interested in your answers.

I don't know how to answer that about the dreams.It's definitely significant-as in reflective of feelings I've had my whole life. But what those feelings are I don't know. A desire to be female since I was born? Or an idea about changing gender that for some reason I got obsessed with at a young age. I guess what I really struggle with is-was I born like this? Saying yes doesn't sit entirely right with me. I can easily see a way that this whole thing developed from a very young age to leave me where I am now. But then the thing that makes me unsure of that is the weird way my sexuality has always felt like it was related to a female body. And by that I mean the very physical sensations. I was basically unwittingly imagining the sensations of a woman during sex before I even knew how sex worked. That would fit the-I was born like this conclusion.

As for the desires, well I want to look female because, well, I just do. I don't know. I literally ask myself out loud 'why?'  when I feel it. I want long hair, I want softer skin. I want a female shape. I want the fashion. I want the make up. I don't know why. It'd make me look more the mirror and be happy. I want to feel sexually satisfied which doesn't feel is possible unless I have female parts. I want to be normal and have relationships and not be alone all the time and feel so different from everyone because of it. It'd make me feel at peace because I wouldn't want something that was impossible. I'd just be.

As for my other desire which I feel is impossible you mean trying to get back to a happy life as I am now? And keep this feeling from my thoughts? Well I want that because this makes me feel so awful. It makes me feel so hopeless. Like I have no control over anything. Theres a happy life there for me if I can just take it. I want it gone from my thoughts-but it can't be. No matter how hard I try. And especially because it seems to be expressed through my sexuality. It's just there, all the time, making me feel different and alone. And the moments where I can go at least a small amount of time without thinking about it-I feel much better-and like I said, it's the only time I feel like there is actually a possibility of life for me practically speaking. But I can't keep it from my thoughts.  I've tried and failed every day since I was 18.

So Ye I don't know if that answers your questions.  Thanks for taking the time to ask them in the first place!

I'm really sorry I can't reply to everyone. As you can tell by my OP I find it really hard to keep things succinct. But thank you so much for all the replies and advice.

[LizK]

  This Topic Has been Unlocked but I wish to remind all members of the following policy

There have been a number of posts discussing the disproven and rather repugnant topic of  ->-bleeped-<-.

->-bleeped-<- is a concept put forward by Ray Blanchard that transgender issues are due to a sex-fueled mental illness.  Blanchard defined it as "a man's paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman."

The topic is not to be discussed on the Forum. ->-bleeped-<- is not a mental illness, it is not a paraphilia and topics suggesting it is are against the Terms of Service.

This Post can be found Here

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,222027.0/topicseen.html

ElizabethK
Global Moderator

[LizK]

Hi Orangejuice

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Things have probably changed around here since you were last here so I have included the links we provide everyone with.

I did read through your long post and from what I could tell you want to be female, but don't want to transition, for fear that Transition may not be the answer for you because as a teenage boy you masturbated to fantasies of you as the woman in a sexual relationship...you do realise that testosterone will make you want to masturbate and since you describe wanting to be female why would being the female in the fantasy not be normal ...You also seem to express another fear of not being able to look like a "female enough"...why not?

So you are able to get the very best from being here there are a couple of links we give to all our new members

Regards

ElizabethK
Global Moderator

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[Orangejuice]

I did read through your long post and from what I could tell you want to be female, but don't want to transition, for fear that Transition may not be the answer for you because as a teenage boy you masturbated to fantasies of you as the woman in a sexual relationship...you do realise that testosterone will make you want to masturbate and since you describe wanting to be female why would being the female in the fantasy not be normal ...You also seem to express another fear of not being able to look like a "female enough"...why not?

Ye I understand how that makes sense. What confuses me a lot is that I don't feel anything looking at a man, in terms of attraction. I'll notice if they're good looking or not but just as a simple matter of fact. Don't feel anything inside. In fact I find a lot of them gross looking and sometimes I think-how can women be attracted to these hairy, unhygienic lumps of bone and rough looking faces and and disgusting baldness (Sadly myself included now)

But it's when I imagine the sensations and experience my body would feel if I was a woman having sex with a man then that's different. And I guess I do make a preference over what type of guy I'd like that to be.Maybe its the difference between men and women. Men see an attractive women and want to have sex with her? Women find people they like emotionally then because they are women and it feels nice for their bodies they have sex with them? I don't know. The only thing I know for sure is I'm not right. Something's gone haywire with my sexuality whether it's a secondary cause of something else or not.

My fear of not being able to look female enough is just that really. I'm 28 with an oddly proportioned body bone wise. I can't really explain it. Imagine a square with two stick legs then oddly big feet, head and hands. I'm also half bald. It's because the looking is kind of the crux of it for me. I'm not feminine in my mannerisms. I'm not particularly feminine in my interests. Nor have I ever been in terms of the social circles I've had.  I'm extremely introverted. I despise being around a lot of people. I despise attention in any way. I really like to go about life as anonymously as I can. I don't have a laid out career path ahead of me (I do have a job but one I feel like a bit of a fraud in because I secretly don't give a ->-bleeped-<- about it and I don't know where it's going) I don't have any skills I feel confident in. I don't have any environments in my life that are conducive to not feeling anything other than awful about having these desires. I've got a family who i know if I imagine anything at all like transitioning in front of them, well I'd just not want to be around them ever again. My parents are really nice and supportive people but they just don't think much and you can't teach them anything. I can't really explain that one but it's true. They'd support me I'm sure while simultaneously make me feel awful. They'd never be able to know me because they don't have it in them to understand something this complex. My Grandfather, again a lovely person ordinarily, wouldn't want to be in my company and I wouldn't want to be in his. My sisters would make me feel stupid because I've always seemed macho I guess to them. But again that's all been about my interests and my friends etc. And they are actually kinda naive to what the male environment can really be like, as is my Mum, so they just wouldn't get how this would fit me. And part of me wouldn't want to ruin it anyway. Like I said in my OP, me being me trying to fit in in the world as I am now is the only 'me' that I know. And there is a lot I like about myself and the way others see me. I'd be throwing all of that away to satisfy this desire I have to be female. And so I'd need to look in the mirror and actually see female for it to be worth it. I'd also probably have to move. Probably to a different country. And never see my family again. And my friends. Who I like. And figure out how to get a job-with no skill set or anything.

It's like the looking female would that would then let everything else follow. I'm not feminine in my mannerisms. But if I looked female I know it'd be natural. But the thought of consciously making the decision to 'act' female? Well as an introvert, who'd probably be a bit of a tomboy as girl anyway, that sounds just truly truly awful and something I could never do. Even in the ideal scenario where I had a body that could work with HRT-the idea of having to 'put on' a female voice, makes me squirm enough to think I couldn't do it.


If I was convinced that I was transgender and this is something I was born with and I really felt it as part of my identity I think I'd be able to take all that on with the confidence that this is who I am and if you don't like it then who cares I don't like you. But I'm not convinced. Like I said I mostly just feel broken in a way that can't be fixed.

Jees. Sorry I just can't explain all this in a few short sentences. It's either write tons or don't write at all.

[Asche]

Yes I understand how that makes sense. What confuses me a lot is that I don't feel anything looking at a man, in terms of attraction. I'll notice if they're good looking or not but just as a simple matter of fact. Don't feel anything inside. In fact I find a lot of them gross looking and sometimes I think-how can women be attracted to these hairy, unhygienic lumps of bone and rough looking faces and and disgusting baldness (Sadly myself included now)

Same here.  FWIW, most of the trans women I know have either made it clear they are lesbian or are in long-term relationships with women.

But it's when I imagine the sensations and experience my body would feel if I was a woman having sex with a man then that's different.

Same here.  I sometimes fantasize about making love to a man, but I never have a clear picture of who he is, only of how he makes me feel.  (Safe, taken care of, him knowing what to do to make me feel good even when I have no idea myself.)  I've never been able to have a clear picture of who and how he is because I can't imagine feeling safe around a man.

If I was convinced that I was transgender and this is something I was born with and I really felt it as part of my identity I think I'd be able to take all that on with the confidence that this is who I am and if you don't like it then who cares I don't like you. But I'm not convinced. Like I said I mostly just feel broken in a way that can't be fixed.

I think we all struggle with this.  Some are better at living well despite the fears.  I think it simply comes with the territory of growing up being brainwashed that we're one way and then realizing we can only really live if we live a different way.  You never have as secure a sense of who you are as someone who has been able to live a life in tune with who they are (and been validated in that life) from birth on.

Jees. Sorry I just can't explain all this in a few short sentences. It's either write tons or don't write at all.

Yeah, I can't figure out how to be succinct, either.

[dusty97]

I'd like to take a jab at several things here.
I've broken your post up into several sections that I think deal with similar ideas and tried to address them as best as I can. It is good to get multiple views on something, though.

What confuses me a lot is that I don't feel anything looking at a man, in terms of attraction. I'll notice if they're good looking or not but just as a simple matter of fact. Don't feel anything inside. In fact I find a lot of them gross looking and sometimes I think-how can women be attracted to these hairy, unhygienic lumps of bone and rough looking faces and and disgusting baldness (Sadly myself included now)

First off, gender identity and sexuality are completely unrelated. You can be tg mtf, and be a lesbian woman, just as a guy can be tg ftm and still be attracted to guys. Or girls. Or anything. Big point here: they're separate. Not every gay man is tg because he likes other men, he's just cismale, gay. They're two different parts of an identity.

And I guess I do make a preference over what type of guy I'd like that to be.Maybe its the difference between men and women. Men see an attractive women and want to have sex with her? Women find people they like emotionally then because they are women and it feels nice for their bodies they have sex with them? I don't know.

Everybody is different in what makes them feel attracted to and love another person. For instance, someone could have a requirement of deep, chocolate brown eyes in order to be attracted to them, and another could have an interest in sea-green eyes. And another person may only have a requirement for a person's personality to be with them- funny, gentle, or even a little strong-willed. Just because you don't feel the same way someone else does, doesn't mean its wrong.

But it's when I imagine the sensations and experience my body would feel if I was a woman having sex with a man then that's different. (...) The only thing I know for sure is I'm not right. Something's gone haywire with my sexuality whether it's a secondary cause of something else or not.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that gender identity and sexuality are separate. And if you have to be with a female body (breasts, hips, hair, etc), but think you would like to try the sensations of 'traditional' sex.... I mean, there are devices for that. I know plenty of lesbians that are only with/have been with women, but do still enjoy penetration. Its more about the person that you love than anything else. It's not uncommon to love women, but still enjoy that.

My fear of not being able to look female enough is just that really. I'm 28 with an oddly proportioned body bone wise. I can't really explain it. Imagine a square with two stick legs then oddly big feet, head and hands. I'm also half bald. It's because the looking is kind of the crux of it for me.

I'd just like to point out that there are many women with very different body types. Some things do change during HRT, it might not be much, and it might not ever be 'enough,' but therein lies the battle that we all face, all the time- our own self image and self esteem. Its hard to be okay with who you are, because we are our own worst critics and we will never fully be one hundred percent perfect when we look in a mirror, no matter what we do.

I'm not feminine in my mannerisms. I'm not particularly feminine in my interests. Nor have I ever been in terms of the social circles I've had.  I'm extremely introverted. I despise being around a lot of people. I despise attention in any way. I really like to go about life as anonymously as I can. (...) It's like the looking female would that would then let everything else follow. I'm not feminine in my mannerisms. But if I looked female I know it'd be natural. But the thought of consciously making the decision to 'act' female? Well as an introvert, who'd probably be a bit of a tomboy as girl anyway, that sounds just truly truly awful and something I could never do. Even in the ideal scenario where I had a body that could work with HRT-the idea of having to 'put on' a female voice, makes me squirm enough to think I couldn't do it.

What determines "feminine" mannerisms, interests, social circles...? Do you think EVERY woman loves and begs for attention all the time? I don't think you could tell me that you've never met a girl that loves to play football and hang out with the guys and who isn't afraid to get dirty, but is still confident in her femininity. There are many different types of women- and you don't have to be the picture of a "girly girl" in order to be a tg woman- you could be all about pink and popularity and shopping, or you could be the girl who likes to read and occasionally go out, and when you do, its to do what YOU want, not what anybody else wants/expects you to do. We are working on breaking the boundaries between what a woman is supposed to do and what a man is supposed to do- you can be whoever you want to be, male or female, or somewhere in between.

I don't have a laid out career path ahead of me (I do have a job but one I feel like a bit of a fraud in because I secretly don't give a ->-bleeped-<- about it and I don't know where it's going) I don't have any skills I feel confident in. I don't have any environments in my life that are conducive to not feeling anything other than awful about having these desires. I've got a family who i know if I imagine anything at all like transitioning in front of them, well I'd just not want to be around them ever again. My parents are really nice and supportive people but they just don't think much and you can't teach them anything. I can't really explain that one but it's true. They'd support me I'm sure while simultaneously make me feel awful. They'd never be able to know me because they don't have it in them to understand something this complex. My Grandfather, again a lovely person ordinarily, wouldn't want to be in my company and I wouldn't want to be in his. My sisters would make me feel stupid because I've always seemed macho I guess to them. But again that's all been about my interests and my friends etc. And they are actually kinda naive to what the male environment can really be like, as is my Mum, so they just wouldn't get how this would fit me. And part of me wouldn't want to ruin it anyway.

Family has a way of surprising us sometimes. My father blew me out of the water when I told him. I was expecting him to disown me, but he was very supportive and has even stopped referring to me exclusively as his "little girl" and has taken instead to calling me by other, gender neutral names since he knows I'm very confused and uncomfortable right now. And if you really think they won't react positively, there's ways of easing them into the idea, and if even that doesn't work.. I couldn't say. I'm sure there's people here who could provide you with some better advice in that area. I've had mostly positive outcomes from talking to my family about being confused and not sure, easing them into the idea.

Like I said in my OP, me being me trying to fit in in the world as I am now is the only 'me' that I know. And there is a lot I like about myself and the way others see me. I'd be throwing all of that away to satisfy this desire I have to be female. And so I'd need to look in the mirror and actually see female for it to be worth it. I'd also probably have to move. Probably to a different country. And never see my family again. And my friends. Who I like. And figure out how to get a job-with no skill set or anything.

Why would you have to move? Do you really think your friends would shun you THAT much? And if they did, were they truly your friends in the first place? Jobs can be negotiated. And you said you're only 28? You still have a little time. You're still settling, finding yourself. I knew a 40 year old who still didn't know what she was doing with her life or where her career was going. It's okay. None of us really ever know what we want to be when we grow up. At least, I haven't ever met anyone that does. 

If I was convinced that I was transgender and this is something I was born with and I really felt it as part of my identity I think I'd be able to take all that on with the confidence that this is who I am and if you don't like it then who cares I don't like you. But I'm not convinced. Like I said I mostly just feel broken in a way that can't be fixed.

Jees. Sorry I just can't explain all this in a few short sentences. It's either write tons or don't write at all.

I think we all have trouble with knowing who we really are at first. I've been trying to sort this out for going on two years now, and playing with the idea since I was little, and I still don't know. I've been seeing a counselor for a while for other issues, and its now on our list of things to deal with (I FINALLY talked to her about it last session), and we're going to get it sorted out. It feels really good to have someone to confide in and actually help me sort out my feelings about it, as sometimes family and friends can be a bit biased, or it feels weird to talk to them about it. But, sometimes it's just not possible to sort through these things on your own, because you just don't know how to. That's what's so great about therapists- it's literally their job to listen to us describe everything thats going on inside and help us sort it out and put together this puzzle of our personality, our identity.
And you have us when you need to rant or ask some questions without having to look someone in the face. We all know that can be hard sometimes.
I hope I've helped, at least a little.

[KathyLauren]

Hi, Orangejuice.  I think I see some misconceptions in your thinking.  They may be throwing off your assessment of whether or not you are trans.

Misconception #1: That who you are attracted to has something to do with being trans.  It doesn't.  There are gay/lesbian trans people just as there are straight trans people.  Being trans has nothing to do with sexuality.  I am trans-female, and I am attracted exclusively to women.  That attraction made me appear straight while I thought I was cis, but caused me confusion: did I like women because I was attracted to them or because I wanted to be one?  Yes, both, as it turned out.  Most men either repel me or bore me.  Even the nice ones do nothing for my interest.  It means nothing when it comes to being trans or not.

Misconception #2: That being sexually aroused by the thought of having a female body means that you can't be trans.  Teenagers are aroused by darned near anything.  You start to think how nice it would be to have a female body; the "junk" just hears "female body" and *boing*, it's aroused.  That's just puberty and testosterone.  It means nothing.  The fact that you were desiring to have a female body is more significant.

Misconception #3: That you can only be trans if you knew since you were a baby.  Not so.  Lots of us only figure it out later in life, even though it is known that the physical changes in the brain that make us trans occur before birth.  I envy the kids who do figure it out early, but they are in the minority.  While I can identify memories that, in hindsight, are revealing of being trans back as far as age 7, the events meant nothing to me at the time.  I started to wonder about them perhaps in my 30s, but managed to deny the whole thing for a few decades.  It was only in my 60s that I put it all together.  That's normal.  I have a pretty good idea of the cause in my case, and it was pre-natal, but I don't need to know that for a certainty to know that I am trans.

[LizK]

Hi Again Orangejuice

What more can I say that hasn't already been said...the reason I asked the questions was to get you to think about what it is you are saying...whomever you are attracted to has nothing to do with wether or not you are trans...  I hope you can find your peace,

Liz