How to ask if I was exposed to DES

[RachelH]

So my mother is visiting and I am in the generation who could have been exposed to  DES.  She has no idea about me but I so want to ask her if I was possibly exposed while she was carrying me back in 1965.  Does anyone have any ideas how to approach the topic without coming out to her?  I am not ready for that yet.
Thanks!
Paula

[Joelene9]

  Very carefully. Me and my mom did discuss hot-button topics such as abortion back in the 1980's. When it came to DES, she clammed-up. There were a few articles and a sitcom on that subject back then. At the time, she was diagnosed with cervical cancer and I dropped the subject. She didn't tell us about the daughter she lost to adoption. We didn't know that she had a daughter before having us until after her death. Our sister found us through my grandmother plus the DNA matched. Also my mom had a history of anemia before having us. I am going by deduction here as my aunts won't even talk about my sister's dad's family nor what my mom was taking while she was pregnant with us.

Joelene

[Deborah]

DES can cause a number of different problems and there is evidence it's effects can be passed on to children through the DNA.  So, if asked, cite those as reasons that you want to know.


Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

[AnonyMs]

Can't say I've tried it, but you could say you have a couple of friends who have some problems and now you're a bit concerned. I assume there's other potential problems than being trans. Don't say it like its going to make you anxious as she might lie, but that you're like to know if you should look out for anything.

[cheryl reeves]

I asked my mom if she took pre natal vitamins back in 64-65 she couldn't  remember but it answered a lot of  questions for both of us  see I have always had a  weird  childhood  for I was a girl and was forced to  be a boy  all because I  had a  penis,I developed like a  girl and look feminine and got  worse when I developed small  breasts and quit  going  shirtless period. My problem was and is I fell in love with a woman and decided to live  as a male which hasn't  worked out  as planned. Now 35 yrs later I'm faced once again with making a decision for being male hasn't worked out too well but I love  my wife.

[JoanneB]

Considering the complete trust of medicine and medical practitioners people had in the era of Dr. Kildare along with the ravages of time on memory, I doubt most women can tell you if they did or did not. Can you cite what that anti-biotic was the doc prescribed back 30 years ago?

The inquisitive, "How does the work?", engineer in me I don't think ever wondered about the how or why, any more then the sun always rising in the east. Just the things are. Maybe because I knew very early on in life I wanted to be a girl. Being trans cannot be undone. The best we can do is figure out how to manage it in our own unique ways. If you have a driving need to know Deborah's approach sounds like a great weasel way to me

[RachelH]

Thanks everyone!  I've not had the chance to bring it up but I can always talk on the phone. The only problem with mentioning the studies is my sister is a nurse and mom was also a nurse. They may already know but obviously no guarantee they have. Great suggestions though!  I guess I would like some validation even though I know  (if that make sense?)
Paula

[JoanneB]

An even more weasel way I think now is to ask your sister if perhaps she asked mom? Perhaps just an even Oh by the way I read something the other day that perhaps you should look into?

[EmmaLoo]

Tell your mom that you need to put together a health history profile for you and your family as part family medical history. Just say it's not mandatory but it's suggested in case there are medical issues in future. Tell her you to need to know if there was any exposure to a common list of chemicals or drugs from that era.

Just give her a list and ask if she remembers.

I just threw this list together quickly, you can make one yourself if you want.

Thalidomide
Dienestrol
Diethylstilbestrol
Mesoridazine

[Charlie Nicki]

What is DES? I googled but didn't find it.

[natalie.ashlyne]

What is DES? I googled but didn't find it.

DES is short for Diethylstilbestrol which is a medication you can google that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

[Sydney_NYC]

I just simply asked my mother about it. She said she didn't take any specific medication, but was given pre-natal vitamins (through injection) by her doctor in 1969/1970 when she was carrying me. Her doctor had recommended the prenatal vitamins since her mother and grandmother had several miscarriages, but still had a big family. All the signs of DES are there so it's pretty obvious in was in those prenatal vitamins. A lot of women were given DES without their knowledge through prescription prenatal vitamin like my mother was given.

[josie76]

I have spoken with my mom about it. She took prescription prenatal vitamins. That's all she can remember about them. I cannot find any record on the net of what was common is vitamins of the day.

What I did find about DES doesn't really clear up the muddy waters.
In 1971 the FDA sent out a bulletin to doctors offices officially counter-indicating the use of DES in pregnant women due to risk of a rare vaginal cancer in daughters of DES treatment. The FDA does not seem to have noted any of the many children born ambiguous due to exposure as a miscarriage prevention. DES was not banned / decertified for human prescription use until the year 2000. The anactdotal info from the web says at least some pharmaceutical companies added DES to prescription prenatal vitamins.

Does anyone have any information on this that is known fact? Sorry for the sidetrack.

[Dena]

There are probably several threads on the subject though HughE seems to be the most knowledgable on the subject. The latest thread that I recall can be found here.

[Charlie Nicki]

DES is short for Diethylstilbestrol which is a medication you can google that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

Thank you.

[tgirlamg]

Hi Paula!

I have two friends, both transwomen, who were exposed to DES... As I recall, one of them told me there is a clue to exposure in a few physical manifestations... One of them being something to do with length of fingers and one being longer... Don't quote me but I think it is if the ring finger is longer than the middle ..  It can be a sign of exposure

[Michelle_P]

Hi Paula!

I have two friends, both transwomen, who were exposed to DES... As I recall, one of them told me there is a clue to exposure in a few physical manifestations... One of them being something to do with length of fingers and one being longer... Don't quote me but I think it is if the ring finger is longer than the middle ..  It can be a sign of exposure

That's the 2D:4D Digit Ratio, which indicates what hormones the fetus was exposed to during certain stages of development.  Many DES sons exhibit the more feminine ratio.  The ratio appears to be negatively correlated to prenatal androgen exposure.

A 2006 study was published on the subject regarding MtF folks:
http://www.psyneuen-journal.com/article/S0306-4530(05)00177-0/fulltext

Sixty-three male-to-female transsexuals (MFT), 43 female-to-male transsexuals (FMT), and 65 female and 58 male controls were included in the study. Photocopies of the palms and digits of the hands were taken of all subjects and 2D:4D ratios were measured, according to standard published procedures.

Comparison between right-handed individuals revealed that the right-hand 2D:4D in MFT is higher than in control males but similar to that observed in control females. In FMT we found no differences in 2D:4D relative to control females. Our findings support a biological etiology of male-to-female transsexualism, implicating decreased prenatal androgen exposure in MFT. We have found no indication of a role of prenatal hormone exposure in female-to-male transsexualism.

[KathyLauren]

In addition to the finger ratio, there are a cluster of other symptoms are are associated with DES.  None of them is definitive: having them doesn't prove anything.  But if you have several, it increases the odds that you probably were exposed to DES.

In my case, I have the finger ratio, very light body hair, pubic hair closer to typical female pattern than male pattern, and poor upper body strength.

Since the first thing everyone does upon hearing about the finger ratio is measure their fingers, you should know what the actual measurement is.  With the hand flat, and looking at the palm side of the hand, you measure from the bottom crease to the tip of the finger.  Just because your index finger projects farther than your ring finger, it doesn't mean that the finger is longer.  My index finger projects 3/8" farther than my ring finger.  But the bottom crease is also 3/8" farther out, making the two fingers exactly the same length.  If the index finger is the same length or longer, that is a typical female ratio.

[Devlyn]

There's only one body part I measure on myself.....good thing I bought a yardstick.   

[DawnOday]

It is very hard to find information. The older you are the harder. Hospital records have been destroyed and research is virtually nil. I was born in 1951 which is in the sweet spot between 1937 and 1972 and longer outside the US. that the drug was prescribed. Wrongly as it turns out. The drug did not work for it's intended purpose of retarding miscarriage and stillbirths. My symptoms include a micro penis. Sorry Devlyn I need a micrometer not a yardstick. Late descending Testes age 17. I also have a defective heart valve, congestive heart failure, Cardio myopathy, arteriosclerosis, diabetes and severe depression. Each by themself inconclusive, but in total I suffer from the majority of the symptoms. My nickname is "Lucky"
Here is the group that supports research that you can use to check out the symptoms before you go to the doctor.
http://desaction.org.
Today hormones are added to cattle feed, produce, grain and may be contributing to young peoples gender confusion. Again there is no real research and what has been done is on a very small cohort that does not supply adequate results. And why should we research something that will destroy the religious misconceptions that we choose our fate. Yes after 64 years of lying to myself and everyone I care for, I chose to stop being depressed, I chose to relieve the burden of a life long secret. I chose to align not with just Transgender rights but Human Rights.  In the year since I made that choice I have never felt so serene and worry free except for the freaks that would not allow me to express my true self. I have also met a bevy of people just like me. For decades I thought I was alone and suffered much guilt and loathing.