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Is having Therapy really needed?

Started by Natal, November 23, 2007, 06:42:15 PM

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mikke

Quote from: Natal on November 24, 2007, 12:24:27 AM
How did you get it free? Comes with a Happy Meal?

I went to a counseling center near me (hour and a half by bus) for LGBT folk. They took insurance, and worked on a sliding scale for those without a lot of money. In my case, the sliding scale equated to 'no fee.'
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Cursty

Quote from: Berliegh on November 24, 2007, 08:30:16 AM
What do they do at therapy? what happens? and what is achieved?

In the U.K we have Gender Identity psychiatrists who try and trip you up and try to humiliate you. They are agressive and question your every move. There isn't the kind of support you might get in the U.S. and the word 'therapy' doesn't exist in the U.K ....
I dont know what you are talking about Berleigh!
My psych is from the UK and she is the most wonderful person ever!
She did ask me a lot of questions at first. But everything was above board and I could never have started HRT without her!
So Im really thankful to the UK for providing her for me here in Tasmania as Gender Psychs are hard to come by here and she had the expeirence of 12 years practicing behind her. So she was really helpful!
I just wish she was still here. Shes gone now.... :'(
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katia

if you're ts and need to transition your body, therapy is imperative.
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Berliegh

Quote from: emma? on November 25, 2007, 06:58:54 AM
berliegh... its like your shirinks but they are private practices, and being private charge pretty much how they want, and since theres other options if theyre not what you want or need you can change they tend to cater to you. most in my experiance with other issuse have been kind and understanding asking thought provoking questions. their whole point to me seems to be to help you cope with your 'issues' by asking questions and makeing you think about them

though there are bad ones they seem not as prevelant as in your nhs<?>.
and we cna change them at any time if we feel the need our gov't doesnt tell use you have to see this one b/c your post code is xxxxx. theres very likey 3 or more in most towns and many more in our larger citys.

althought this is either coverd by private insurance or totally out of pocket.
i hope this helped.

It's true, the psychiatrists withing the U.K NHS system use 'bully boy' tactics towards patients and make them feel completely worthless. One Charing Cross NHS Psychiatrist admitted he didn't believe in gender Dysphoria existed at all.

I recieved an e-mail this morning from a patient I know who is still attendinding Charing Cross GIC in London and she is depressed at the way they have been treating her and she has already slit her wrists once before. I'm indirectly working as a help line for people atending that awful place and I have been tarketing U.K Govenment politicians and other govenment bodies to do something about changing the U.K Gender clinic system and psychiatric attitude the medical profession has towards people suffering from Gender Dysporia in the U.K

Posted on: November 26, 2007, 03:10:49 AM
Quote from: Kirstie on November 25, 2007, 08:00:18 PM
I dont know what you are talking about Berleigh!
My psych is from the UK and she is the most wonderful person ever!
She did ask me a lot of questions at first. But everything was above board and I could never have started HRT without her!
So Im really thankful to the UK for providing her for me here in Tasmania as Gender Psychs are hard to come by here and she had the expeirence of 12 years practicing behind her. So she was really helpful!
I just wish she was still here. Shes gone now.... :'(

What part of the country do you live in Kirstie and who have you seen within the U.K NHS system? Psychiatrists do vary depending on what part of the country you live in. 'The lottery system' is something that's real and happening and if you live in London or the south it's much worse that if you live in Scotland or the north.
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straycat

Quote from: Berliegh on November 25, 2007, 03:47:22 AM
Here's my question again, What do they do at therapy? what happens? and what is achieved?


I am in the US.  I have seen 3 therapists on the way to getting my surgery letters and all of them were helpful.
For all therapists the first couple of sessions are spent getting to know each other and your styles of talking, telling your history and why you are there.  They always ask about alcohol/drug usage, home life and situation, social life, and work situation.

My first was a psychologist with no gender identity experience.  I wasn't having any luck finding one that would be able to provide me with HRT/surgery letters but I still wanted to work on the anxiety and depression that were holding up my transition and hopefully find a referral to someone who would have the training/experience to write HRT/surgery letters.  At the first session he asked me why I was there, what I wanted to achieve, and how he and I would know when we were done. I wanted to get control of my anxieties and fears that triggered depression and were blocking my transition.  I was too depressed to have any social life at all and too afraid of people to try presenting in public as female.  He explained his style as CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing).  CBT focuses on modifying your behavioral responses.  At each session we started by me bringing up any new or past events or issues in my life or whatever I wanted to talk about.  He might question me further about those things and offer ideas or exercises toward improving my handling of events and my emotions.  That would lead to the second part of the session where he would take something I had talked about such as some depressive trigger and have me to focus exclusively on that.  He asked me to follow his hand with my eyes as he moved it from left to right.  I was to try to relive the moment in my mind and to re-experience the thoughts and feelings I had at the time.  After a minute or so he would stop and I would describe what I experienced and any other thoughts that it triggered.  We would talk about that a bit then he would pick another event and repeat it for that.  For the last one of the day he would ask me for a positive event or time when I felt especially good and do the eye movement thing for that so that I always left feeling good.  We did progress to the point where I was presenting as female at our sessions and beginning to go out socially.  At that time his office was able to get me a referral to someone who had GID training and experience.

My second therapist was a Masters degree social worker/therapist with gender identity experience qualified to provide letters for HRT and surgery.  He provided a letter for hormone therapy after 3 months and the first letter for surgery after 1 year RLT.  We started out with weekly sessions, then monthly during most of my RLT, and every two weeks toward the end of RLT and approaching surgery.  Each session is begun by me talking about what is new in my life since the prior session.  I talk about my progress in transition or what is happening at home, work and social life.  I might talk about my attempts to improve my appearance and presentation.  I describe how people are relating to me and reacting to my transition and how I would handle that.  The therapist gives me ideas about how to improve if needed.  I sometimes bring pictures of myself with friends in social activities.  I always volunteered (without waiting to be asked) as much information and evidence as I could to show that my transition was working and making my life better.  We sometimes talk about the political/legal issues relating to transsexuals or how we are treated in the medical/mental health professions.  We occasionally trade information on resources for transition.  The sessions are always enjoyable.  I get insights to myself and suggestions on further improving my life and relationships with other people.  He sometimes gives me assignments to do which we would talk about later such as:
      Asking me to think about some particular idea to talk about later (for example asking me how much if any I would feel connected to my previous experiences as a male after completing transition.)
      Had me make a collage using magazine/newspaper clippings on the theme of "who am I".
      Suggest I write about some events immediately after they occur while they are fresh in my mind to make it easier to talk about later.
      Make a list of recent things that trigger anxiety or depression.
      Make a list of recent positive things or happy events in my life.
      Give me some suggested reading.
      Ask me to do something I was afraid of.

  As the time for getting my surgery letter came near we talked about surgeons, the surgery, risks, recovery, aftercare, and how I was to finance it.  We traded information and I made sure the therapist could tell that I had thoroughly researched surgery and had a realistic view of what it would do for me and what my life would be like afterward.

My third therapist was a PhD psychologist with GID experience that I went to in order to obtain a 2nd surgery letter.  I asked for and signed a form with my primary therapist to allow him to share any and all information regarding my therapy with the secondary therapist in order to minimize my time needed with the 2nd and to make it clear my stories were honest and that I welcomed them to compare notes.  This therapist did not really provide me with therapy since I was just getting my 2nd letter. He just needed to evaluate whether surgery was appropriate for me so he asked quite a few questions.  After the first couple of sessions he told me that so far he saw nothing that would prevent him from writing the letter for surgery and he would likely be able to do that.  Like the other therapists each session began with me just talking about what was new or whatever I wanted to bring up.  I would talk about most of the same things I was covering with my primary therapist and would usually try to talk about some things that directly related to readiness for surgery.  One difference in style with this one was that after the initial sessions if I ran out of things to say it could get very quiet with him waiting for me to bring up something else which could make me very nervous.  The other therapists would always prompt me with some idea or question when that happened.  All three therapists asked me at some point my opinion about treatment protocols and causes of GID.  We sometimes talked about the controversial theories or efforts to stop GRS surgeries completely (Blanchard, Lawrence, Bailey, Paul McHugh, the Russell Reid lawsuits) and what I thought about those.  I continued seeing him for several months and had my primary therapist sent him a copy of the first letter after which he provided the second.

If someone has already lived as their target gender for many years it should not take too long to get letters if you can provide evidence of that (name change records, employment records, proof of HRT, consistent story etc.)  Even if you do not need therapy, most therapists are still going to want to see you long enough to be able to say they can see that you are consistent and persistent in your goals and presentation and have a clear understanding about surgery.

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Kate

Therapy helped me at times, especially during transition when I needed someone impartial to vent to, face-to-face. In that sense of "therapy," she's generally been very good to me. It's not that she ever advised me on what to do exactly, but she did get me to think differently about some of the things which were bothering me, and helped me stay grounded overall.

But had I followed her direction, I'd STILL be waiting for an HRT letter (although I'd probably have killed myself by now), and I'd be under the care of a doctor 50 miles away who prescribes an obsolete and dangerous regimen. I keep breathing a HUGE "whew!" sigh of relief when I imagine what COULD have happened. As it turned out, I took the initiative and found my own resources to transition (including finding a doctor I respect very much). And THAT'S the best, most valuable lesson I came away with: her GateKeeper role forced me to assume TOTAL responsibility for transitioning, which is how it should have been anyway, IMHO.

~Kate~
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Kate

Quote from: Ashley Michelle on November 26, 2007, 12:24:18 PM
Quote from: Kate on November 26, 2007, 08:58:29 AM
And THAT'S the best, most valuable lesson I came away with: her GateKeeper role forced me to assume TOTAL responsibility for transitioning, which is how it should have been anyway, IMHO.
wait, i made *you* responsible for my transitioning....   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

And I blame Lori, so she's really Patient Zero here ;) I swear that girl musta gone through a dozen pairs of boots while kicking my...

Still though, the most helpful thing my therapist did for me was to GET IN MY WAY. Had she "helped" me, encouraged me to transition, recommended me for HRT... I bet I never would have developed the near-fanatical determination which I credit for getting me through this last year.

~Kate~
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Purple Pimp

An interesting study, if slightly old, in Transgender Psychotherapy:

http://www.symposion.com/ijt/ijtvo06no01_03.htm
First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you would do. -- Epictetus
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Berliegh

Thanks Straycat. The psychiatry sessions in Charing Cross, London, England are not like your experiences. We are usually bullied by the psychiatrist and not taken seriously and they question everything you are doing. It's a very unpleasant 30 mins and after the session you feel like suicide.......I had 6 years of that..

That was a long time ago now and I'm much happier away from that sinario...
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Rachael

i cant see a therapist for 6 years thanks to NHS burocracy and waiting lists... yet im ft nearly 6 months now. and ive been on hrt 11 months now... yes, i self medicated, and then was put on hrt by the nhs because of my intersex condition, and uncomfort with my raised gender... (massive kettle of fish to be left the hell out of this) I could get surgery tomorrow, and walk away from this a happy woman... therapy is only useful if you have uncertainties... im fairly happy and certain that im a girl, and no therapist going 'yes i agree, your a girl' is doing anyone any good... In some cases, its useful, some , waste of time.
R :police:
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suregirl

I am condidering starting therapy again-because I cannot afford the private route I am going to be reffered back to Charingx here in the u.k-which I am not looking foward to because they do give you a hard time-I suppose thats neccesary and have to trust that they only want whats best for me.
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Rachael

no. they really dont have whats best for you in mind... :P
thier useless, stuck in the past, and insane... two friends went through barret and got messed around something insane... one girl, because she was clocked as male once, got stopped hrt because she was evidently living as male >< ?
R :police:
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Hypatia

Quote from: Rachael on November 28, 2007, 08:24:33 AMmessed around something insane... one girl, because she was clocked as male once, got stopped hrt because she was evidently living as male >< ?
Well, if that's the standard, most of us are f|_|cked.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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Rachael

British Gender identity clinics do nothing but slow you down, and try to stop you transitioning...im GLAD i self medicated. and transitioned MY way. im happy, unhindered, and i dont think therapy would have kept my family, or kept me from hear homelessness and poverty...
R :police:
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Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on November 28, 2007, 12:24:07 PM
British Gender identity clinics do nothing but slow you down, and try to stop you transitioning...im GLAD i self medicated. and transitioned MY way. im happy, unhindered, and i dont think therapy would have kept my family, or kept me from hear homelessness and poverty...
R :police:

There are two things 'therapy' and 'abuse' and unfortunitely the U.K NHS gender clinics use the latter. Rachael you are right to approach thing in your own way and that is what I should have done 7 years ago. Instead of listening to people who were only there to abuse and undermine my confidence and waste my time.
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Dennis

I very much understand your frustration Berleigh and Rachael. I'm concerned, though, that this thread is veering toward advocating self-medicating, so I do want to point out that going it your own way in the UK can also mean still sticking with medically supervised transition, and that that would be recommended because of the potential danger of self-medicating. Sounds like the NHS is basically funding it so they can say they do, and then putting every possible roadblock in the way of actually assisting people with transition. I'm starting to feel more and more fond of Canada's ad hoc system, where some of it is funded, but you have to find your own way through the specialists.

As to the original question, therapy is likely helpful for some and a waste of time for others. For me, I went to six sessions over three months and it was helpful for dealing with a lot of the fears around transition. The last session or two were basically just a chat with the therapist, though and I was just putting in time to get my hormone letter. I'm glad I went though.

Dennis
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Berliegh

Quote from: Dennis on November 30, 2007, 08:30:57 AM
I very much understand your frustration Berleigh and Rachael. I'm concerned, though, that this thread is veering toward advocating self-medicating, so I do want to point out that going it your own way in the UK can also mean still sticking with medically supervised transition, and that that would be recommended because of the potential danger of self-medicating. Sounds like the NHS is basically funding it so they can say they do, and then putting every possible roadblock in the way of actually assisting people with transition. I'm starting to feel more and more fond of Canada's ad hoc system, where some of it is funded, but you have to find your own way through the specialists.

As to the original question, therapy is likely helpful for some and a waste of time for others. For me, I went to six sessions over three months and it was helpful for dealing with a lot of the fears around transition. The last session or two were basically just a chat with the therapist, though and I was just putting in time to get my hormone letter. I'm glad I went though.

Dennis

Dennis, what you need to understand is that in England, U.K there is not a system in any shape or form that is set up for 'Therapy'. It is a non entity. There also isn't any form of medical supervision for people who are transitioning and we all arrange our own lipid and blood tests with our GP's. Also the NHS has not funded any of my transition and even when I started on hormones in 2003 it was through a private psychitrist.

In England we don't have help sessions or therapy sessions. If we have appointrments with psychiatrists they do not offer therapy and the NHS psychiatrist appointments are only about two 30 minute appointments in one year if you are lucky. The psychiatrist session is more like a police interigation and their aim is to try and break people. They do not have any form of treatment program or timescale.

I don't condone self medication in Rachael's case but I certainly understand it and if the help and support isn't there what other alternative is there? 
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Rachael

Im not condoning it... i dont even condone it in my own case... i was desperate, it was die, or live... live had some gambles and risks attachged... i was prepared to die than stay a guy...
it was an act of desperation and necesity in my case... BUT i am NOW on prescribed hrt... for the record... my gp took over my wellfare.
R :police:
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Berliegh

Quote from: Rachael on November 30, 2007, 12:09:38 PM
Im not condoning it... i dont even condone it in my own case... i was desperate, it was die, or live... live had some gambles and risks attachged... i was prepared to die than stay a guy...
it was an act of desperation and necesity in my case... BUT i am NOW on prescribed hrt... for the record... my gp took over my wellfare.
R :police:

That was exactely my point Rachael....people do get to a desperate stage, especially when they are bluntly refused hormones by NHS gender clinics. I know of attempted suicide cases as a direct result of hormone refusal. It is dangerous to play around with people's lives but that is what the NHS psychiatrists do. Thery are both manipulative and cruel to the point of patients on their hands and knees and begging.......

I'm glad your GP is helping you but you might find he or she is the only one who is..

I'm nearly a year now away from the NHS gender clinic sinario and I am so happy about that.....
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