Tall = Sexy!

[cindybc]

Sorry!!!! but I been lost since Shantastic's post Guess this thread wasn't meant for Hobbits.

Cindy.

[Keira]

I think your assertions is totally false Wing Walker, it CANNOT be made to say whatever you want it to say if you've got the whole methodology and know about stats. Only the ignorant of both
can be fooled.

I've said that 3 times already BTW. METHODOLOGY and KNOWLEDGE of stats theory is important.

Stating percentages is not stats btw. Its just another way of stating a ratio.

Sarcasm is being used, in this thread and other answers to what I said.
It annoys me if not any other person. You may not ackowledge it, but I see it clearly.


I tell you about how theoritically absurd your questions are and do you "discuss" this.
No, you come back with the same assertion that you can make stats say anything. Well,
only if you use stats that not stats... The one used in movies and myth.

[IsabelleStPierre]

Greetings Everyone,

Might I suggest that we just admit that there is a difference of opinion here and leave it at that?? Let's try to keep to the topic at hand...please?

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

[Wing Walker]

Greetings Everyone,

Might I suggest that we just admit that there is a difference of opinion here and leave it at that?? Let's try to keep to the topic at hand...please?

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

Hi, Isabelle,

According to what I have read, due to the size, shape, and weight of its body, and the surface area of its wings, the calculations say that a bumblebee cannot fly, however, the bee being totally ignorant of aerodynamics goes ahead and flies anyway.

And according to all of the statistical information that I have seen here, I cannot possibly be mistaken for, let alone be accepted as a woman.  Had I paid attention to such things I might have committed suicide after I read the ratios and their occurrence.

When anyone looks at me they see a large woman.  I'm 5'11.5" and I sure got some fine padding from Grandmother Estrogen.

When I look in a mirror I see me, a woman, being the best woman that I can be.

I might have killed myself because if the ratios of the length of my upper arm to my lower arm, the length of my upper leg to my  lower leg, number and size of ribs, the curvature of my spine, the break-point(?) of my arms at my waist, the placement of the vertebrae, the circimference of my head (OK, no wisecracks are necessary, LOL!!), the difference between the bossing on my forehead and the forehead of a natal woman, the size of my hands and feet, and whether I can circle my left wrist with my right thumb and middle finger and vice-versa, if all of these did not fall into some sort of statistical model for a transsexual woman, some might say that I have no right to transition.  If that was the case I might be better off dead.

I come here for support and to support others.  Who knows, there may be others like me who don't take a size 2 and cannot easily find nylons to go the length of her leg.

What do I have going for me?  Not much, maybe, but I don't let that stop me.  I take some comfort in knowing that short of an autopsy no one will find me out.

There are women who have bossing on their foreheads, a skull my size, limb ratios that aren't on anyone's chart, and feet bigger than mine.  Small comfort but it's there.  I have seen them on public transport, at work, in the supermarket, all over town.

So considering that I am what I am and that's all what I am, I see no difference of opinion.  I have no axe to grind.  In 30 minutes it will be a new year and I don't wish to take this subthread into the next year with me, but by the same token, I cannot walk away and leave it untied.

Wing Walker

[Keira]

Wing Walker, what your talking about is still not stats, its again misuses of stat.

Passability has nothing to do with stats since
its due to a instantanous assesssment by the brain of thousands of factors, some
dependent, other independent. If the other person assesses you as female,
what is it, that one of your legs is out of range. My legs and arms are certainly longer
than average, but It hasn't hampered me in the least (I'm the same height as you exactly by the way).

That being said,


Survey's use stats, but only because its too onerous to count the whole population. If you didn't have to sample, then you'd simply get a population ratio which is not a use of stats at all.

Surveys that produce bell curve representation of reality (most population parameters are spread on both side of a bell curve ) could tell you that you fal within some antropometric female range, but it rarely would tell you if your overall body are similar to that 5 foot 11 and a half women because that's the kind of survey that's never taken. So, we don't know if indeed you or me are within that range. We indeed may be. Body proportions in our case is more important that just absolute comparason.

Factor, say shoulder width or hand size, need first to be made proportionate to height to make
sense for us. Even when in absolute term, someone doesn't fall within female range, I've seen that in
a term relative to height most do.


When something is totally point of view driven, like religion or if suchi is good, then
its pointless to continue talking a point through. When something is more
neutral and point of view should not enter into it, like math or if the earth
is flat or round, letting go of the discussion becomes hard. I don't like
to let misinformation stand, a foible I guess.

Anyway, that's all I'm adding on
this subject no matter your reply which I'll neverthless be happy (or not ;-) to read.

[Rachael]

i THINK im with kiera....
if you look right, its all that matters, how long your big toe is in relation to your thumb doesnt matter, nobody notices... overall if your within female, you look female, this variation is what makes us look different, and notall boring and the same.

and im with izzy here, can we stop the bayonet charges for the new year? what good does the arguing do?
R

[Wing Walker]

Wing Walker, what your talking about is still not stats, its again misuses of stat.

Passability has nothing to do with stats since
its due to a instantanous assesssment by the brain of thousands of factors, some
dependent, other independent. If the other person assesses you as female,
what is it, that one of your legs is out of range. My legs and arms are certainly longer
than average, but It hasn't hampered me in the least (I'm the same height as you exactly by the way).

That being said,


Survey's use stats, but only because its too onerous to count the whole population. If you didn't have to sample, then you'd simply get a population ratio which is not a use of stats at all.

Surveys that produce bell curve representation of reality (most population parameters are spread on both side of a bell curve ) could tell you that you fal within some antropometric female range, but it rarely would tell you if your overall body are similar to that 5 foot 11 and a half women because that's the kind of survey that's never taken. So, we don't know if indeed you or me are within that range. We indeed may be. Body proportions in our case is more important that just absolute comparason.

Factor, say shoulder width or hand size, need first to be made proportionate to height to make
sense for us. Even when in absolute term, someone doesn't fall within female range, I've seen that in
a term relative to height most do.


When something is totally point of view driven, like religion or if suchi is good, then
its pointless to continue talking a point through. When something is more
neutral and point of view should not enter into it, like math or if the earth
is flat or round, letting go of the discussion becomes hard. I don't like
to let misinformation stand, a foible I guess.

Anyway, that's all I'm adding on
this subject no matter your reply which I'll neverthless be happy (or not ;-) to read.

Hi, Kiera,

Thank you for your reply.  IMHO, it is well-reasoned and a good explanation of stats versus random sightings, objective findings versus subjective findings.  Your tenacity in clearing-up misinformation is a good quality in this case.

I had an image of you as shorter than 5 feet, 11.5 inches. 

The more data samples one takes, the more accurate the curve.  Gathering data for all of the millions of women in America isn't only onerous, it makes no sense, so a limited sample size must be determined and, after studying the accuracy of the data in each sample lot, arriving at a sample size for which data can be collected and analyzed before the results of the analysis become useless.

Rachael, what you have said is how I have felt since the day I realized that I might actually be able to transition.  That was on April 4, 2002.  That was the day of my first appointment with a gender therapist, and it was on that day that I knew I had embraced she who has always been within me and decided to be the best "she" shat I could be.

I have no bayonet charges to make and I never did.  When too many measurements and ratios began to appear I felt them to be detrimental to those of us who have enough problems being who we are. 

I never worried about being accepted as a woman by the rest of the world, even when I knew that there was no way they could be that close to blind.  I am secure in myself after five years of being me.  Kiera is right and I know it:  that no one sees you as each of your parts and automatically checks your proportions to see if they fall within the anthropometric female range.  It's a good thing that it works as it does.  If it didn't, the suicide rate among transsexuals might be worse than it actually is.

Thank you again for your reply, Kiera.  And thank you for your comments, Isabelle and Rachael.

Happy 2008 to all.

Wing Walker

P.S.  The canard about jail and tomatoes is borrowed from an essay I read in 1969 called "The Dread Tomato Addiction."  It was an example of some manner of "newspeak," I think.

WW

[cindybc]

Hi Rachael hon, my big toe is smaller then yours. "Nyaaa, nyaaaa." Sticks tongue out. "Hee, hee, hee."
Just messin with you.

Cindy

[cindybc]

I have a hard time remembering the spelling for a lot of stuff and by the time I get to the post window I forgot. What I d is copy the name and paste it when I get to the post window and part of their post if need be.

Cindy

[Hypatia]

Please, everybody, make a super-human effort to get people's names correct.
I know that there are a lot of uncommon names and I know that some people have trouble spelling generally.
When you respond to someone's post, please take the time to double-check the name.

Thanks,

Renate

P.S.  This has nothing to do with my name.

Recently, in another forum, someone unfamiliar with my name spelled it "Hypnatia" 

[Rachael]

whats the drama? people typo... its the internet.
R

[Rachael]

it happens... i doubt its anything to do with willfully disrespecting thier gender... lighten up. a typo isnt dissing yo womanhood....
R