How to pass and get along with cis women.

[Cimara]

Hello ladies. First let me say I do not claim to be an expert on cis girls. But I have had cis girls as friends since I was in school and I wanted to share my experience with you with the hope some of them might help you. This post is aimed at girls who are stealth. Passing is about much more than looking passable. It is also about how you act, react and conduct yourself. I know some of you had no choice but to try to adopt a male persona before transitioning. Males and females interact quite differently and it is important for you to unlearn male behavior and actions. The following are things to help you pass with cis women who do not know you are trans. But some of them apply to passing in general.

Keep your HRT medications where your friends will not find them. Women tend to be nosy and they WILL in fact snoop around in your bathroom.  Depending on your age it can be difficult to explain why you are taking estrogen. Never assume that if someone finds it they wont know what it is.

Unless you live with a guy be careful about leaving male items where they can be found.  Things like rogaine for men, men's razors, athlete feet cream and gafs could be hard to explain.

Buy and keep tampons on hand. It is inevitable that at some point in time one of your friends will ask you for a tampon. All cis women have at least 1-2 on hand at all times for emergencies. I suggest you carry a couple in your purse in case someone asks while you are out. I say tampons because the majority of women I know don't like or use pads.

Educate yourself on menstruation.  Your friends are going to ask you about your periods. It would be suspect to be ignorant on the subject.

Get used to female nudity.  Many cis girls have no problem with being nude in front of each other. They will change clothes,  pee and step out of the shower with each other. They sometimes will show you their boobs and ask if they look ok, do they sag,etc. And don't be surprised if they want to see yours. Women like to compare with each other. That can include vaginas.  If that happens and you are pre op, don't get all stone faced and serious. Say no but be a little dismissive and laugh when you say it. A friend might also feel your boobs or your rear. It's not sexual. Again they like to compare.

Touching. While men do not usually touch each other much while socializing women do. Women hug and kiss each other. They also touch each other far more than men. Get used to that. If you have a friend who hugs you hello or goodbye hug her back. Don't stand there like a statue.

Be tactful. Men are usually very blunt and direct with people who are not relatives or girlfriends/wives. Women usually try to be gentle with their friends. If your friend has gained weight for example, you could say " well you have gained a tiny bit of weight but its not major. A couple of weeks of working out will take care if it"  One of my friends made the mistake of asking Lucas if she was getting fat. His response was "yeah kind of". Never say something like that to a friend even if its true. That applies to other things too. Like if your friend gets a really bad haircut find something nice to say about it. Like it brings out her eyes or something.Don't say she looks like a cantaloupe with eyes.

Give compliments. Guys are really stingy with complements to each other. Women are not. If your friend or anyone for that matter deserves a compliment then give it to them.

Cattiness tread lightly with this. Yes women can be very catty but some women also use it to size up other women. For example if someone says another woman is fat or ugly and you jump in and say " oh yeah. She's so fat and ugly even the tide wouldn't take her out" then other women are going to be wary of you. If you say instead " well she could lose a little weight but she's not ugly" they will judge you as having some compassion for others.

Sex talk. Women will give each other details of their sex lives, ask you about yours and ask you intimate questions about your boyfriends sexual skills and the size of his equipment.  Be ready for that and decide if and how you will answer when it happens.

Borrowing.  Women tend to borrow clothes and many other things from each other. Don't be too stingy letting friends borrow things.

Boyfriends. Women tend to be very protective and defensive when it comes to their boyfriends or husbands. Don't ever talk bad about someone's boyfriend or husband. Even if he is a huge jerk or ugly enough to make an onion cry, hold your tongue. I guarantee that if you rag on someone's man it WILL get back to her. On the same note do not go on about how hot or cute someone's guy is either. That can turn a woman against you just as quickly as ragging on him.

Look messy once in a while. If your hair and makeup always look perfect it can be off putting to other women. I am not saying you should look like a baglady but be casual at least once in a while.

Peeing. I know this should be obvious but NEVER pee standing up for whatever reason. Yes the bathroom door is closed and no one can see you but they CAN hear you.  Because of the distance to the bowl men and women sound very different when they pee. And sound carries all over the place.

Don't fart. Men tend to fart without apology whenever they have the urge. Some, like my boyfriend,  even find farting funny. Women do not. It can be hard for someone to break the habit if they have become used to farting. Do not do this around your female friends or anyone for that matter. A woman who breaks wind indiscriminately looks like a crude pig and very low class. If you can't hold it in then excuse yourself to the ladies room or bathroom. But remember sound carries so try to do it quietly. How you ask? Spread your butt cheeks apart before you pass gas. It will minimize the sound.

Trans issues. This one is very important. People are quite aware of trans persons. There is a good chance you will be involved in a conversation regarding trans issues. First of all try not to look uncomfortable. You probably will be but try not to show it. And NEVER be to knowledgeable of trans issues.  If someone gets something wrong and you correct them and give a detailed explanation it could be disastrous.  Someone is going to ask you how would you know that. That would be bad for you.

I hope this helps .
Hugs

[kelly_aus]

There are some bull->-bleeped-<- stereotypes here.. Or things that only apply to white, middle aged hetero women..

Keep your HRT medications where your friends will not find them. Women tend to be nosy and they WILL in fact snoop around in your bathroom.  Depending on your age it can be difficult to explain why you are taking estrogen. Never assume that if someone finds it they wont know what it is.

Pretty easy to lie about why I take estrogen.. Except that I don't - and in Australia, it comes packaged in much the same way as common birth control pills.

Buy and keep tampons on hand. It is inevitable that at some point in time one of your friends will ask you for a tampon. All cis women have at least 1-2 on hand at all times for emergencies. I suggest you carry a couple in your purse in case someone asks while you are out. I say tampons because the majority of women I know don't like or use pads.

Never been asked in almost 7 years..

Educate yourself on menstruation.  Your friends are going to ask you about your periods. It would be suspect to be ignorant on the subject.

Already know more than most women..

Be tactful. Men are usually very blunt and direct with people who are not relatives or girlfriends/wives. Women usually try to be gentle with their friends. If your friend has gained weight for example, you could say " well you have gained a tiny bit of weight but its not major. A couple of weeks of working out will take care if it"  One of my friends made the mistake of asking Lucas if she was getting fat. His response was "yeah kind of". Never say something like that to a friend even if its true. That applies to other things too. Like if your friend gets a really bad haircut find something nice to say about it. Like it brings out her eyes or something.Don't say she looks like a cantaloupe with eyes.

I've found women to be far blunter than men..

Peeing. I know this should be obvious but NEVER pee standing up for whatever reason. Yes the bathroom door is closed and no one can see you but they CAN hear you.  Because of the distance to the bowl men and women sound very different when they pee. And sound carries all over the place.

This is a load of crap. If i had a dollar for every time I've been in the ladies and heard someone let a firehose loose, I'd have paid for a BA by now..

[Cimara]

I am sorry if you found this offensive. I am white and heterosexual. I said this was based on MY experiences.  You live in another country and you are much older than me. It would be only logical that your experiences would be different from mine.

[Cimara]

I will add that the friends I speak of are also white, hetero and younger.

[kelly_aus]

I'm not at all offended.. Just pointing out that this is a guide that fits a fairly narrow view of the world.

[Cimara]

You are right. But its what I have experienced. I would love to hear from others and hear their experiences.

[staciM]

If i had a dollar for every time I've been in the ladies and heard someone let a firehose loose, I'd have paid for a BA by now..

So true.  If both sitting, compared to a cis-woman I would say trans woman are generally much quieter.  We tend to hit the bowl and trickle down while cis woman point straight down into the water.

[Karen_A]

So true.  If both sitting, compared to a cis-woman I would say trans woman are generally much quieter.  We tend to hit the bowl and trickle down while cis woman point straight down into the water.

I don't know if you are taking about pre or post-op...but that has been my experience and i am coming up on 19 years post-op... I have a feeling my urethra was not placed exactly right with SRS so I do tend to hit the front go the bowl rather than go straight down ...  and I do hear the difference in sound from other women in the restroom... but I doubt anyone notices that.

Some of what she is saying may be generational and/or class based ... Women changing in front of each other and being more touchy is certainly common ... but at least in my generation comparing vagina's is not... in fact it's something not unknown among some post-ops to compare surgical results or show a friend that is considering their surgeon.

- Karen

[Doreen]

I knew you were going to face a firestorm of criticism for this.. the nature of trans girls is that everyone has an opinion and their opinion has more merit than the others.  Just an observance I've seen, not a truth.. that being said I can agree with many of the things you said here, if you want to be STEALTH and living among the cis.  Other than that, just be yourself.. don't be overtly paranoid.  Live life and socialize.  The most important concept is this:  "Monkey see monkey do".  Young girls know this early on, they mimic social behaviors and ingrain it without even realizing it.  Just learn from those around you.

You are right. But its what I have experienced. I would love to hear from others and hear their experiences.

[Devlyn]

"Firestorm of criticism"    melodrama much?

[AnneK]

everyone has an opinion and their opinion has more merit than the others

That's the problem with opinions, anyone can have them!   

[Dee Marshall]

About the men's razor thing, just gripe about the "pink tax". I still buy exclusively male razors.

[paula lesley]

There is nothing... NOTHING... funnier than farting 

Your right about Periods though. I still think that I look like a man ! but cis women have talked about theirs. It's just a part of life. I should take it as a compliment, really


Paula, X.

[JMJW]

If your friend has gained weight for example, you could say " well you have gained a tiny bit of weight but its not major.

It's better to just blurt out "No".

[Cimara]

There is nothing... NOTHING... funnier than farting 

Your right about Periods though. I still think that I look like a man ! but cis women have talked about theirs. It's just a part of life. I should take it as a compliment, really


Paula, X.

My boyfriend thinks so too. His poor grandmother farts when she bends over or gets up from a chair. The poor thing is old and she can't stop them. He always laughs at her when she poots.  He also finds it hilarious to tickle me until I involuntarily fart. Get him together with his friends and they see who can fart the loudest. I don't know what it is with guys and farts. Its like Im dating a 14 year old sometimes.

[Jenna Marie]

Yeah, I agree that it's a fairly narrow view.

"All" cis women do not use tampons, for the same reason that I could easily explain my HRT - I have more than one cis friend who's had a hysterectomy while fairly young (under 30) and quite a few who are menopausal. The only time it's ever come up for me, we bonded over how hard it was to go through surgical menopause abruptly and the hassle of figuring out HRT at an age when many women were still trying to get pregnant. I fall back on that when period discussions come up now, too; I've heard enough variations on "wow, I haven't had to think about that in years" to borrow from that if I have to.

As for comparisons, my goodness, this does not at all reflect my experience in New England. I've never had anyone strip in front of me or grab my butt, and the one person who's a little too free in the women's locker room at work gets treated as slightly odd.

And my wife buys men's razors because it's cheaper... so that's my true explanation for why they're in my bathroom.

I think if I had any advice for trans people who wanted to avoid discussing their status with cis people, it would simply to be to live authentically and don't overthink it. (Someone who is obsessive about avoiding the slightest hint of masculine behavior or subjects or possessions may stand out as well, after all...)

[Charlie Nicki]

I will not be stealth but still find this guide helpful, especially for the type of woman I want to be thanks!

[ainsley]

Cimara, I think you have some good points (farting, complementing, catiness, peeing, etc.) and I am not going to nit pick your tips, but I will just say that I think it is geared toward younger people that are still dating and/or very social.  I have been married for 26 years.  Much of what you have said about cis women is not applicable to my experience with cis women, nor my wife's:

She would never get naked in front of other girls.  She has had a hysterectomy and uses HRT openly.  She hated tampons.  She would never touch another girl's butt.  She always kept her makeup on point.  To name a few.  And this was the way she was when I met her when she was 20 and still today...

So, good tips for young, social, dating people.  Not so applicable to the masses.

[silliemunkie]

there is some useful information here, thanks for sharing

[FTMDiaries]

Hello ladies.

Just wanted to point out first of all: this is the general Transsexual board, not the MtF Board. We're not all ladies here!

As for the tips, I was socialised as female and tried to live as a woman for 40 years, so I have plenty of first-hand knowledge about the subject. Here's what I learned:

Keep your HRT medications where your friends will not find them. Women tend to be nosy and they WILL in fact snoop around in your bathroom.  Depending on your age it can be difficult to explain why you are taking estrogen. Never assume that if someone finds it they wont know what it is.

This is a very rude thing that some people do when they visit other people's houses. Nobody has any right to nose through other people's medications, and if they do it's an invasion of privacy. Personally, if somebody nosed around my cupboard, found my testosterone and asked why it's there, I'd ask them why they'd snooped in my private things. But yes, if you want to keep your medications private, keep them somewhere where your guests aren't likely to snoop.

Unless you live with a guy be careful about leaving male items where they can be found.  Things like rogaine for men, men's razors, athlete feet cream and gafs could be hard to explain.

Many women buy things like rogaine, men's razors, athlete's foot treatment (women do get that too!). In many cases, the 'men's' version is purchased because it tends to have a stronger dose of the active ingredient than the 'women's' version; and men's razors tend to have better blades than women's razors so plenty of women use these too. As for gaffs, that's a good thing to keep hidden because there aren't many circumstances in which people would expect to find these. I should know, I've accidentally left my packer & harness in the shower before, leading to my kids uttering the immortal line: "Mum, you've left your dick in the bathroom again!". 

Buy and keep tampons on hand. It is inevitable that at some point in time one of your friends will ask you for a tampon. All cis women have at least 1-2 on hand at all times for emergencies. I suggest you carry a couple in your purse in case someone asks while you are out. I say tampons because the majority of women I know don't like or use pads.

I wouldn't waste your money on this one. Tampons & pads can be triggering, and after all...

All cis women have at least 1-2 on hand at all times for emergencies.

Exactly! If the woman who needs one has accidentally forgotten hers (and this is unlikely, because most women keep track of their cycle & know when a period is due to hit), someone else will have one. And if nobody has one, it's easy to pack your underwear with a couple of layers of toilet paper until you get home. Nobody will think worse of you if you don't have a tampon, and it won't affect your ability to pass. In my entire 40 years of presenting as female, somebody asked me for a tampon exactly twice. It's a very rare thing and not worth worrying about.

Educate yourself on menstruation.  Your friends are going to ask you about your periods. It would be suspect to be ignorant on the subject.

Just the basics are fine. Common symptoms, usual length of cycle, that sort of thing. By all means build up a narrative. E.g. as periods tend to last for about 5 days, why not invent a cycle that's the last (or first) 5 days of each month, with the common symptoms of cramps, bloating, pain between the legs etc. (it feels like you've been kicked in the crotch). Then if your friends discuss periods, you have a backstory, or you could just nod & say 'I know' or 'me too' when they mention some symptoms.

Get used to female nudity.  Many cis girls have no problem with being nude in front of each other. They will change clothes,  pee and step out of the shower with each other. They sometimes will show you their boobs and ask if they look ok, do they sag,etc. And don't be surprised if they want to see yours. Women like to compare with each other. That can include vaginas.  If that happens and you are pre op, don't get all stone faced and serious. Say no but be a little dismissive and laugh when you say it. A friend might also feel your boobs or your rear. It's not sexual. Again they like to compare.

I'd urge extreme caution here. Please don't initiate this kind of thing unless you know it would be welcomed. Touching someone's breasts, backside or private parts is sexual assault if they don't give consent.

Some countries and cultures are OK with nudity, and some are most definitely not. I've never, ever had a woman show me her boobs or ask to see my ex-boobs, and I'd be utterly horrified if it happened. Nor do they touch each other's rear ends or boobs; that would be classed as sexual assault where I'm from!

Women do not like to compare their bodies with each other due to their own insecurities: perhaps amongst teenagers & very young women this might happen occasionally, but once they get a little older they would never dream of doing this, because then things really do wrinkle & sag and very few women would be comfortable with being seen like that. And can we please establish once & for all what a vagina is: it's the internal passage between the vulva & the uterus; it's not visible from the outside. You might be talking about them comparing vulvas... and again, this is something that teenagers or very young women might do whilst experimenting but it's certainly not something that is done by adult women!

Touching. While men do not usually touch each other much while socializing women do. Women hug and kiss each other. They also touch each other far more than men. Get used to that. If you have a friend who hugs you hello or goodbye hug her back. Don't stand there like a statue.

This is very true. Women use a lot of casual touches, to the arm or shoulder or perhaps a quick hug & kiss on the cheek. They do this in a way that straight men don't. I agree completely with the advice to return the greeting as it has been given.

Be tactful. Men are usually very blunt and direct with people who are not relatives or girlfriends/wives. Women usually try to be gentle with their friends. If your friend has gained weight for example, you could say " well you have gained a tiny bit of weight but its not major. A couple of weeks of working out will take care if it"  One of my friends made the mistake of asking Lucas if she was getting fat. His response was "yeah kind of". Never say something like that to a friend even if its true. That applies to other things too. Like if your friend gets a really bad haircut find something nice to say about it. Like it brings out her eyes or something.Don't say she looks like a cantaloupe with eyes.

Women are socialised from an early age to be likeable. Whereas male socialisation is about establishing a pecking order in more physical terms, female socialisation is about being nice to other people so that they'll like you. They are just as domineering as men are, but they do it in terms of social hierarchy. So they tend to worry about what other people might think of them (whereas many men will just blurt out what they're thinking because they weren't raised to care about other people's opinions). It's helpful to keep this in mind when thinking about how you express yourself.

Give compliments. Guys are really stingy with complements to each other. Women are not. If your friend or anyone for that matter deserves a compliment then give it to them.

True. A quick compliment, such as 'I love what you've done with your hair' is definitely a part of female bonding.

Cattiness tread lightly with this. Yes women can be very catty but some women also use it to size up other women. For example if someone says another woman is fat or ugly and you jump in and say " oh yeah. She's so fat and ugly even the tide wouldn't take her out" then other women are going to be wary of you. If you say instead " well she could lose a little weight but she's not ugly" they will judge you as having some compassion for others.

Here's a place where male socialisation & female socialisation can be polar opposites. The woman in this example is saying something nasty about another woman because she wants to put the other woman down so that she can feel superior to her (this is how female dominance works). Your role is to agree with her but not be nasty. If you disagree with her, you go on her hit list too, right alongside the original target. It's difficult to get the balance right, so yes, tread very carefully.

Sex talk. Women will give each other details of their sex lives, ask you about yours and ask you intimate questions about your boyfriends sexual skills and the size of his equipment.  Be ready for that and decide if and how you will answer when it happens.

Very often these discussions are really about how dissatisfied they are with their particular relationship. And amongst straight women, about how rubbish their current boyfriend is and how awful men are in general. So be prepared for that sort of trash talk to happen.

Borrowing.  Women tend to borrow clothes and many other things from each other. Don't be too stingy letting friends borrow things.

And be very careful who you lend them to! Some women will return your property; others will ask to borrow something and conveniently forget to return it. Keep an eye on this. A good rule of thumb is to never lend something you would really like to have back.

Boyfriends. Women tend to be very protective and defensive when it comes to their boyfriends or husbands. Don't ever talk bad about someone's boyfriend or husband. Even if he is a huge jerk or ugly enough to make an onion cry, hold your tongue. I guarantee that if you rag on someone's man it WILL get back to her. On the same note do not go on about how hot or cute someone's guy is either. That can turn a woman against you just as quickly as ragging on him.

Agreed. Women are hugely protective of their partners (not just boyfriends; this is especially rife in the lesbian community too!). If you verbally attack another woman's partner, she'll turn against you & no matter how right you may be about her partner, you'll be Enemy Number One. As an aside, if you find out that a friend's partner is cheating on her, consider carefully whether you'll tell her. You'd probably be doing the right thing for her, but it's likely to end your friendship.

Look messy once in a while. If your hair and makeup always look perfect it can be off putting to other women. I am not saying you should look like a baglady but be casual at least once in a while.

Be yourself! Be glam; dress up; dress down; be a baglady - whatever floats your boat. But if you're insecure & trying to fit into a specific friendship group, try to dress at a similar level to them; it works wonders.

Peeing. I know this should be obvious but NEVER pee standing up for whatever reason. Yes the bathroom door is closed and no one can see you but they CAN hear you.  Because of the distance to the bowl men and women sound very different when they pee. And sound carries all over the place.

Nah, don't worry about this either; it'll only make you feel insecure and there's no need for it. Remember that all sorts of women of all sorts of ages use the ladies', and they don't all have the same bladder control. I've heard absolute waterfalls going off in neighbouring cubicles; you'd think someone had used a hosepipe. Nobody bats an eyelid! Also, bear in mind that young children (including boys) use the ladies' too - and their pee also sounds different. Not everyone makes the same sound in the ladies' room so it's not a major issue... but I'd avoid standing & aiming for the water just in case some nosy kid decides to look under the door (I've had that happen many times!).

Don't fart. Men tend to fart without apology whenever they have the urge. Some, like my boyfriend,  even find farting funny. Women do not. It can be hard for someone to break the habit if they have become used to farting. Do not do this around your female friends or anyone for that matter. A woman who breaks wind indiscriminately looks like a crude pig and very low class. If you can't hold it in then excuse yourself to the ladies room or bathroom. But remember sound carries so try to do it quietly. How you ask? Spread your butt cheeks apart before you pass gas. It will minimize the sound.

Do fart. Whenever you need to. But do it quietly. My great-grandmother said that women have 'golden bottoms' in that they never pass wind, but that's because she was holding them in until she could get somewhere private to let it rip. Most women practise muscle control so they can squeeze them out very slowly, avoiding any noise. That's the key. Spreading your cheeks can make it louder and can result in unpleasant accidents. As Billy Connolly said: 'never trust a fart after 40'!

Trans issues. This one is very important. People are quite aware of trans persons. There is a good chance you will be involved in a conversation regarding trans issues. First of all try not to look uncomfortable. You probably will be but try not to show it. And NEVER be to knowledgeable of trans issues.  If someone gets something wrong and you correct them and give a detailed explanation it could be disastrous.  Someone is going to ask you how would you know that. That would be bad for you.

People are becoming more aware but there's a lot of ignorance out there, so if they bring up trans issues then it tends to be quite negative. I always approach these conversations from the angle of a knowledgable ally: someone who has a bunch of trans friends & can speak from that perspective. That way, I can provide the education that these people sorely need... without outing myself.

It's also worth bearing in mind that not everybody is stealth, and not everybody can be stealth. So judge the situation accordingly.

And on that subject: conversations about trans people are actually very rare. Cis people are more likely to start one if they know or suspect that you're trans (because people will want your opinion as a native informant), but if you're completely stealth then it's very unlikely you'll come up against these conversations very often. I've only ever had two with people who didn't know I'm trans, and I've been out for 5 years.