8 years post op, thinking of giving up stealth

[Wednesday]

all the intellectual acrobatics tend to more about justifying what one wants to be rather than a dispassionate analysis of what is true

Lol. Well put. I'd say that even before analyzing the underlying subjective reasons for a given argument, if you find "too much acrobatics" in it...  then it's likely to be bogus (this is no scientific principle, just call it good ol' heuristics given by experience lol).

Dunno. Call me empty-headed, but I never found this kind of arguments interesting at all lol. As you stated, they are usually aimed to twistingly conceit significant underlying emotional issues.

[Another Nikki]

I think you are going to find happiness and peace if you choose to move things that direction Ritana... I married the greatest guy in the world with nothing to hide... When you are loved for all you are without hiding... Well... That is pretty hard to beat and pretty much what this life stuff is all about... At the end of it all... The only thing that matters is our loving connections in this life... Everything else is just window dressing...

Onward we go brave sister!

Ashley

Beautifully put Ashley.  Last week i had a break down with my wife where i told her i would understand if she wanted to start emotionally uncoupling from me, because moving forward, I can only accept being loved for exactly who i am.  fortunately for me, she's willing to try.  I hid for 45 years, I'm not planning on hiding in the future.  I accept i will lose people i care about along the way.

[tgirlamg]

Beautifully put Ashley.  Last week i had a break down with my wife where i told her i would understand if she wanted to start emotionally uncoupling from me, because moving forward, I can only accept being loved for exactly who i am.  fortunately for me, she's willing to try.  I hid for 45 years, I'm not planning on hiding in the future.  I accept i will lose people i care about along the way.

Hi Nikki

Thank you for the kind words!!!! You sound like you are in a very good place in your mind for all that lays ahead... You carry the determination that comes from KNOWING the direction you must go!!!

It sounds like there is a lot of love there between you and her... I wish all good things for you both... I've told people when I do speaking engagements that starting transition is much like telling everyone closest to you, that you are climbing a huge mountain... Some may not want to make the journey with you....Others may try to climb with us with the best intention ...but find along the way, that their path is elsewhere and does not lead to the top where we are going... Bless them for being a part of your life and bid them safe travels... We can lose people along the way but new faces take their place to care for us and be cared for by us... this journey is about our connection to others and the world around us!!!... Have a good climb!!!

No matter what happens...All will be well

Ashley

[Gone Girl]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site and I actually joined because the discussion in this thread is relevant to my life.

For all intents and purposes, I'm "stealth". I started actively transitioning over 5 years ago and am now post-transition; socially for 3.5 yrs and medically for 2.5 yrs. I live 100% authentically as who I am, a female. I don't define myself as a transwoman, I'm a woman, it's who and what I am and I have no doubt of my identity.

I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, including when being sexually intimate with someone (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before) then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

To the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man)

Thank you so much.

[Ritana]

Wise words hun. I am not thinking about giving up stealth, just to be okay with it should my past resurface at any time.I will definitely be informing the guy I am currently dating? should ourour relationship turn into a long termtime one.   Self-acceptance as a trans is and being at peace with nesrlf is more important than anything else.

Hugs,
Ritana

[Lisa_K]

I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, [/b]including when being sexually intimate with someone[/b] (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, [/b]or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before)[/b] then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

In my experience, you will find someone but you may have to kiss a lot of toads before finding your Prince Charming. Why anyone would want to have a serious LTR with someone that didn't know and accept everything about me including my history would leave me in constant fear of discovery and rejection and with the distress and anxiety you mentioned. The longer this hiding business goes on, the deeper the cut and more intense the pain if it happens.

I understand this isn't really hiding per se and how the whole concept of being trans and stealth is not a deception but most without our perspective don't see it that way. I also understand the downsides of being known as a woman with an asterisk or with the preceding adjective of trans so we're on the same page about that but there's always a measure of Catch-22 involved.

Considering there are people that knew you before and the fact that you can easily be discovered through the Internet, you're playing with fire and are likely to get burned if you're talking about real relationships and not flings or hook-ups.

I went there with my husband. We started out as friends but after six or seven months, things snowballed and I became way too invested emotionally without him knowing. Even though there is no one that knew me before (I transitioned 44 years ago) and there's no Internet breadcrumbs for someone to follow, I felt he still had to know and I told him expecting the worst. For a while, I was rejected and was completely devastated and it wasn't until nearly a month later after I'd given up all hope that I heard a single word from him. He called me at work and wanted to know where the hell I'd been. We were married within a year.

To the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man)

This is something we all must learn to live with and balance. Even though past lives and transition may be many years ago and we are fully integrated into the world as just women without asterisks or extra adjectives, our history is still a part of who we are and always will be regardless of how much we want to believe otherwise. That can be a depressing thought but it is a cross we all must bear.

Being of trans experience is hard. It certainly gets better and fades into the past but it is something always with us even if only in our own minds that we each must deal with accordingly. I've been "stealth" a long time, probably a lot longer than most but I still can't live in denial about how I was born or the first 15 years of my life. If someone can't deal with that and all of me, then they're not worthy of my affections.

[sfbarbie]

I too think this is a great post.  I do live stealth, however I am too fearful of how a guy would react if he did find out, to not be honest with a guy I am intimate with. I am currently preop, but I go through all lengths to protect my past. I carry a tampon in my purse, I have them in my bathroom under the sink.  I luckily have a cousin who looks very similar to me, so I have pics of her when she was little that I pretend are me lol (I mean literally how crazy do I sound, having a very Carrie Bradshaw typing in front of the window realizing I'm literally out of my mind-moment)

Do I sext guys and "pretend to be cisgender online and snapchat my boobs to get some dick pics?" absolutely.  Which some may see as dangerous but in my experience of doing so for several years only once have I ran into a guy I met online in person and it was a huge event and we didn't even talk just waved so I wasn't really too worried.

So with me, I am not out except to close friends & any guy I would be intimate with in person.  I still have a ton of anxiety and I think if I had a job where I felt it was more acceptable to be trans (like doing makeup or hair, etc) or I lived in California that I would come out and feel a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders.  However at this point it's not something I'm really ready to do.

How I handle guys out and in person is if a guy wants to come with me, I'll make up an excuse like I have to go and do something, but give me your number and as soon as I'm done we can meet up.  Then after I leave I text him and I'm just honest.... Hey you're hot AF, I would rock your world, but I wanted to be honest about the fact that I'm trans.    This saves me face, and protects me in case he flips out, but it also makes it easier for him, so that he's not "embarrassed" so to speak.

note: I also want to add part of why I live stealth is because I was bullied, terribly, my entire life from 1st grade to after high school.  The only time this ended was when I started living as a woman.  If you can imagine 12 plus years of torment, everyday bullying and then you're given this gift of being viewed as a woman and literally guys hit on you in stead of physically hit on you, it's amazing.  That's why I don't want to come out online and 100%.  I see the things that people post on Jazz Jennings instagram and other peoples social media and I don't want to go back to that. 


just my 2 cents.. I wish you all the luck!

[stephaniec]

I'm still pre op so take with a grain of salt , but I'd stop the stealth with partners  and just be stealth with the rest of society

[LiliFee]

Yes, deep down I do believe I am trans. All of us here are. Trying to fool myself into believing I am cis is a blatant lie. That is a fact. I consider myself to be a female, but NOT a cis-female. I.suppose I could convince myself I am a cis-female but a simple visit to the doctor would prove the opposite. Very simple:))

Hear hear. I guess I agree with you on many points... I've transitioned at a younger age as well, and as a result am enjoying my 'passing privilege'. You know what it boiled down to for me in the end? Being a woman is a matter of who you are. There are many ways this is intwined into your personality, but I believe the personality and the person you are, are NOT the same thing. Let me elaborate a bit on that....

I started transitioning when I was 23 years old, and quickly got to the point that I had a full passing. As I got older, my only goal was to live as a ciswoman, since I believed there were no differences between me and that. But as the years kept creaping on, I ended up developing this nagging feeling I had left something behind. A part of me simply didn't get on the train when I chose to take off, it got left behind and the greater the distance, the more I felt that this part of me was missing.

Even though I now believe have always been female, transition and life in general is about becoming a full, balanced and happy person. Leaving parts of yourself suffocate in the past doesn't help in this regard. My choice to resolve the situation was a unique one, I fully detransitioned and moved to another country to start over (hadn't had SRS yet) and tried to find this male part again. This was a success, and it actually made me happy as a man for a little while.

Since then, I rebooted my transition and right now I'm happily living stealth and being post op. Even though, there are people who do know, and people who don't. Those who know are part of a community of real friends, of people who have seen me through the experiences described above, or of people who I have come to feel comfortable enough with to start explaining who I am and what matters to me.

Being stealth, for me, isn't about wanting to be cis, it's about a choice you take to make it easier on society to accept you as female. If I were to live in a world where telling the majority of people that I was a transwoman would make me happy, I guess I would live a more open life. But alas, to my opinion many people still lag behind, even those who are tolerant of our existance. We still, albeit subconsciously, get branded as 'different', we get othered and thus get a separate treatment. Unfortunately, I haven't found society chance a lot in the last 10 years or so that I've lived as trans, open or not. So to get back to what Sophia Sage meant (I believe): our truth is that we're women. But with society being a bitch on us, we have to help a bit and leave out some parts when dealing with most people.

We all have our emotional needs, and being trans with a passing privilege is a balancing act. Being othered isn't nice, we're women and we can and do want to live that way. So non-disclosure is in some ways a necessary evil. But on the other hand, as others have stated, living a lie is never a good thing.

You don't have to be cis to be a woman, but as long as the world hasn't got that simple fact etched into their harts, I'll keep living stealth with a couple of intimi around me for emotional support.

[Sophia Sage]

Being stealth, for me, isn't about wanting to be cis, it's about a choice you take to make it easier on society to accept you as female. If I were to live in a world where telling the majority of people that I was a transwoman would make me happy, I guess I would live a more open life. But alas, to my opinion many people still lag behind, even those who are tolerant of our existance. We still, albeit subconsciously, get branded as 'different', we get othered and thus get a separate treatment.

I'm still of the opinion that "cis" and "trans" are not permanent categories... nor would I call them "basic level categories" like we have for girls and boys and men and women.  "Cis" and "trans" are purely social constructions, and "trans" at this point is such a huge umbrella term for all kinds of different conditions that it's started to lose meaning for me.

I equate "being trans" with gender dysphoria, which in my experience had internal and external dimensions -- internally generated dysphoria about my body, and externally generated social dysphoria.  Changing my body healed the former, and full social assimilation healed the latter. 

And to achieve full social assimilation, I necessarily had to practice non-disclosure, so I could learn what I missed out on growing up, what it's like to be properly gendered and how that shapes our social interactions.  This took several years, long after all the surgeries were complete!  But this gets to the crux of our situation -- to be properly gendered, in today's Western culture overall, disclosure really gets in the way of that.  Because so many other people tend to believe that our external conditions at birth determine "who we really are."  Disclosure is kind of like asking people to treat you differently, but that's exactly what I don't want!

Perhaps, at some point in the future, our society will become spiritually enlightened, and see only the person on the inside in the here and now, without regard for external signifiers or narrative considerations.  We don't live in that society now, but I am hopeful, because I do know individuals (and even small pockets of communities) who are just that.

[Ritana]

Sophia Sage

Your view is very positive and enlightening; unfortunately, society's perception of transgenders is still backward.

Until the change, you discuss in your reply, becomes a reality I will continue to live stealth - with the exception of long term partners.

Hugs,

Ritana

[RobynD]

I really like your thoughts about being genuine in that respect. Its a very personal decision and there is no right answer but to me, your plan sounds considerably less stressful. Will there be other stresses it causes, probably but you can be yourself without fear.

It is interesting how stealth is used as a term on both ends of feminization (or masculization) sides of the spectrum.

I also agree that cis and trans are constructs. Onward society progresses.

[LiliFee]

I'm still of the opinion that "cis" and "trans" are not permanent categories... nor would I call them "basic level categories" like we have for girls and boys and men and women.  "Cis" and "trans" are purely social constructions, and "trans" at this point is such a huge umbrella term for all kinds of different conditions that it's started to lose meaning for me.

[...]

Perhaps, at some point in the future, our society will become spiritually enlightened, and see only the person on the inside in the here and now, without regard for external signifiers or narrative considerations.  We don't live in that society now, but I am hopeful, because I do know individuals (and even small pockets of communities) who are just that.

And that's exactly the point... As women with a history that involves transition, we are more aware of these issues. however, the bulk of society isn't. I guess I would really prefer disclosure if I knew everybody around me would still see me as a woman. Sadly, that's not the case, so I have to 'help them' a bit and leave out the bits that might confuse them. It's like talking to children, in a way. hehe 

[Ritana]

I suppose  there is no right or wrong when.it comes to disclosure. Lessons gathered throughout your experience will shape your decision.

[pretty pauline]

I'd stop the stealth with partners  and just be stealth with the rest of society

Ditto,  absolutey agree, I'm effectively stealth, my husband knows but not his friends or work colleagues, I would attend Christmas parties etc when wives are invited, nobody knows, I'm just another guy's wife, just another woman.

[Miss Lux]

I have been stealth since my SRS and agree with both points of view... I want to continue living in stealth mode but it is definitely more stressful living stealth and most of my major heartbreaks from trusted people are related to betrayals intentional or unintentional regarding my past.

[Sophia Sage]

Until the change, you discuss in your reply, becomes a reality I will continue to live stealth - with the exception of long term partners...

I suppose there is no right or wrong when it comes to disclosure. Lessons gathered throughout your experience will shape your decision.

I don't disclose to anyone, not even long-term partners.  The only person I'd even think of disclosing to would be someone on the same path as me. 

As to right and wrong, well... if there's right and wrong, it's on the axis of practicality.  To me, non-disclosure is right in the sense that I've found it the most effective way to get 100% correct gendering over the long term. 

I have been stealth since my SRS and agree with both points of view... I want to continue living in stealth mode but it is definitely more stressful living stealth and most of my major heartbreaks from trusted people are related to betrayals intentional or unintentional regarding my past.

Yeah, I found it stressful too, in the early going.  It took a while for me to develop the self-confidence that I wasn't being clocked but indulged.  It took a while for me to believe that I wasn't going to get clocked.  It took a while for that critical, editorial, incessantly commenting voice in my head to finally shut up. 

"A while" lasted about two years. 

And it definitely takes discipline.  The only "trusted people" I have are my parents and sister and her family.  I've made it quite clear that any breach of protocol (intentional or unintentional) will end our relationship, and so they are good.  No, better than that, they are impeccable.  Everyone else I had to let go of, move on from.  And though it was hard, that was ultimately so freeing for me, to go out in the world and just be me in the present, in the here and now, without the constraint of a certain narrative. 

[Jacqueline]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site and I actually joined because the discussion in this thread is relevant to my life.

For all intents and purposes, I'm "stealth". I started actively transitioning over 5 years ago and am now post-transition; socially for 3.5 yrs and medically for 2.5 yrs. I live 100% authentically as who I am, a female. I don't define myself as a transwoman, I'm a woman, it's who and what I am and I have no doubt of my identity.

I don't inform people whom I meet about my past life (pre-transition/transition) and I am seen/heard/experienced completely as a woman, including when being sexually intimate with someone (I fixed my birth defects very well).

I know how it feels to be treated as a woman; it feels normal, as opposed to being categorized as a trans person and subsequently treated as "other", which I experienced a lot during the earlier part of my transition. Post-transition, my experience is when people learn about my past life (on the rare occasion that I have told, or when someone discovers through the internet, or heard it from someone who knew me before) then I am treated differently, and universally rejected as a romantic partner. This romantic rejection, especially, causes me a lot of distress and anxiety and it weighs heavily upon me.... "Will I ever find someone who truly loves me and wants to be with me, regardless of my past?"

To the OP, I'm not advocating "giving up stealth", nor to others who are stealth. I am, however, very concerned for the wellbeing of those of us who are stealth and how we navigate the fear of people's un-acceptance of who we are as women, and often their outright rejection of us as viable partners (not to mention the possibility of physical violence... that thought does go through my mind when I'm with a man)

Thank you so much.

Gone Girl,

Sorry this is so late.

Welcome to the site. Thanks for sharing so much  personal information and your opinions. We have many members at all levels of transition and all over the trans spectrum. It is helpful experience that really guides many of our members.

I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Jacqui

[Georgette]

Ritana

I am someone else who has lived kind of stealthy.  Liked Lisa_K I transitioned in the 70s, SRS in 77 at age 26.

My journey does have a few kinks.  In the Navy from 69-74, and in 72-73 they learned about my being Trans.  So for the rest of my life until I retired I have been out to the US Security agencies.  I held Secret to Top Secret clearances for all that time.

I was never really stealth as I stayed with the company from 74-92, so many there knew me before.  For the two companies after that I was stealth.  The last being the Dept of Army, if they knew they never said anything.

I have been completely out with my family since 1975/76.
But to most every one else I was not out, except for a few in the LGBT community back then. 

I tried some dating with men in the 70s-80s, and was not out to them.  Being TS back then was fairly rare so few ever even thought of that.  After a few years this did give me some anxiety, always worried one would find some little thing.  You have to be very careful with idle chat about your past.  I mentioned to one that I had been in the Navy.  He asked if I was in the Waves, and I quickly said yes.

I had lived with my partner from 1976-2014, we always had an open relationship.  Being with men was never very satisfying so I gave up on that.
In 1983 we bought a house in the suburbs and just grew old blending in as two woman.

In 2014 she died and I decided to come back to the LGBT community to see what has been going on.  I also have been trying to connect with others that transitioned in the 70s.  It was so different than what is done today.

I am very open to all in the LGBT crowd if they want to know my past.  But even than some may not put it together.  Couple of months past a fun black woman I would dance and cuddle with in the clubs.  I showed her a pic of me and my partner, and my Company ID after my name change.  She asked why I changed my name, and I asked her that she did not know I was Trans.

Since the start of 2016 I have opened my FB page to all that request to be friends.  Up till then it was only family, and since they all knew, was no reason not to.

So for the general public I am still stealth, but don't hide it from anyone that may inquire.  To tell the truth in the general public I have NEVER been questioned about my being a woman.

At times I'm not so sure coming back out has been good.  Because of my age and year of SRS, many want to make a big deal of it.  I guess for some it is an inspiration that we can live long fruitful lives.  I have been meeting many great people in the whole LGBT area.

[amandam]

Hi Ritana, you mentioned you wanted to remain stealth with your friends. There is the possibility that a guy can out you to them at some point. So, please consider that before telling.