Being treated as a female.

[Julia1996]

Hi everyone. I never gave much thought to how different it would be being treated as a girl but it is really different. It seems to be guys who treat me so differently for the most part. My parents left this morning for two weeks on vacation. My brother was planning a camping trip with his friends so I was looking forward to having the house to myself and being alone for a little while. So then as my parents were leaving I find out my brother changed his plans and he's not camping until my parents get back. When I asked him why he told me because I can't stay here all by myself. My dad immediately backed him up and said my brother was right that I couldn't be here all by myself for that long. I asked him why not since I had been alone for a few days before plus the fact I'm freaking 19 years old and not 9. He said it was different now that a young girl shouldn't be by herself that long. My mom said that was dumb and that I'd be fine. But my dad said absolutely NO. What?? Really?? So much for having the house to myself. So then my brother tells me I have to cook and do everything around the house while our mom is gone. Excuse me!! He said it was my (job) to do that stuff. For real?? I don't know how he figures that! Because I'm a girl I automatically have to do all the work around the house? That's totally messed up!  Its other people too. Last weak we had the A/C serviced. I asked the guy what was wrong with it. He said it just needed freon which is all he needed to say. But he went into this explanation of what freon is and how it makes the A/C cold. And he definitely was talking down to me. Like he was explaining it to a moron. I know what freon is. I did go to school. The same kind of thing happened when it took my car for in to have the oil changed. The guy explained what he was going to do even though I didn't ask him to. He explained it slowly like I was stupid. Yeah I grasp what a oil change is. I'm a girl not an imbecile.  And my brother's 2 best friends treat me really different too. They were always kind of dicks and LOVED messing with me. Now they are actually like really polite to me. One of them farted and then looked at me and excused himself. He actually blushed! Wtf? That coming from someone who used to pants me, give me wedgies, draw on my face with a marker, tickle me till I was almost dead and hold me upside down by the feet. I for sure don't miss any of that but it's just so weird how different they act toward me now. Have you all had people treat you a lot different after you transitioned?

[cheryl reeves]

I'm constantly schooling women about not putting up with being talked down too,sometimes even in male mode I get the taking down too,then I put them in their place making them look like idiots. My wife once went to get a part for a car we ownef,it was a 78 for granada,th ey came with 302 engines,ours had a 351 Windsor engine,she went too get parts for it and got told she was wrong for they had 302 engines only,she took the guy out to the car popped the hood and asked the guy what engine is that,he said a 351,she almost hit the guy,after that he made sure he waited on her too save arguments with other parts guys.

In my generation we started to be on our own at 10 without babysitters,it's different today parents are afraid of even leaving their adult kids alone.

[Lady Sarah]

I have grown very accustomed to being treated as a woman. However, I despise guys mansplaining things. I know they will not respect me in some ways. However, being treated the same way as all the women in my area ain't so bad. Some are just in shock that this woman knows how to weld.

[Julia1996]

"Mansplaining"  that's hilarious.  I love it. Lol

[FTMDiaries]

Ha ha ha... oh, yes - I certainly do remember all this nonsense. Those of us who were socialised as female were brought up with this sort of crap every single day. Horrible, isn't it? Women are treated like children all their lives. If anyone wonders why feminists tend to be perceived as being angry all the time, this is the reason why.

For example:

I asked him why not since I had been alone for a few days before plus the fact I'm freaking 19 years old and not 9.

Certain types of men - your father and your brother amongst them - believe that women are little more than children. They think it's chivalrous to treat the lil' lady as if she's made of glass. Your father clearly has very old-fashioned views on women, and sadly he's passed them on to your brother. He's also trying to pass them on to you by teaching you that you're not an adult in your own right, but rather you need a man to take care of you. On the one hand this is a somewhat positive development, in that it shows that your father and brother both completely accept you as a woman. But on the other hand, it's highly inappropriate in today's society and it's incredibly frustrating to feel so restricted, isn't it?

So then my brother tells me I have to cook and do everything around the house while our mom is gone. Excuse me!! He said it was my (job) to do that stuff.

Your parents (both of them!) have raised him with some sexist ideas. This is very strange because they're probably of my generation (my eldest daughter is about your age) and we grew up through the feminist movements of the '70s and '80s so they should be better informed. Traditional gender barriers had broken down substantially by the time we were ready to start our families, so old-fashioned gender roles are actually quite rare in my generation!

Your brother has seen your mother's example of doing all the cooking & cleaning and he thinks that's what women are for. He's seen your dad's example and he thinks that's an appropriate way to treat a woman. It isn't though, is it? They've done him a huge disservice: presuming he's straight, he's going to struggle to find & keep a girlfriend or wife in the long run because most modern women will not stand for that kind of sexist nonsense. His only hope is if the women in his family can show him the error of his ways. He needs a good kick up the backside, and you'll be doing his future partner a massive favour by giving it to him now.

So by all means, cook. For yourself. Tell him if he wants to eat, he can make his own damn sammich. Tidy up your own mess, but leave his stuff for him to do. I daresay your folks will be annoyed if they come back & find a mess, so let him get in trouble for the mess he leaves! And make it clear to your entire family that you will not be held responsible for someone else's chores: a grown-ass man should be able to cook & clean for himself, and if he doesn't already know how to do so then he needs to start now! Oh, and spend as much time as possible away from the house. Visit your friends; go shopping; go sight-seeing: whatever it takes to get yourself away from his attempts to dominate you. My elder brother tried the same stuff with me, and you can bet your bottom dollar I did not let him get away with it. And in so doing I turned him into a suitable husband for his wife & father for his daughters, and a feminist to boot!

Last weak we had the A/C serviced. I asked the guy what was wrong with it. He said it just needed freon which is all he needed to say. But he went into this explanation of what freon is and how it makes the A/C cold. And he definitely was talking down to me. Like he was explaining it to a moron. I know what freon is. I did go to school. The same kind of thing happened when it took my car for in to have the oil changed. The guy explained what he was going to do even though I didn't ask him to. He explained it slowly like I was stupid.

Ah yes, mansplaining. Irritating, isn't it? I'm afraid you're going to come up against this for your entire life.

I think it's because male socialisation teaches them that their opinion is important and they should be an expert in everything. It's a form of male domination: cisgender men do it to each other as a type of verbal peeing contest... but they do it to women as a way of dominating them & treating them like a child. It's a difficult habit to break, but stopping them at the beginning of their explanation is the best way to do it.

To be perfectly honest, I've seen several trans women (mostly older transitioners) do the exact same thing and it's painful to watch: nothing outs them (or alienates them from other women) quite like mansplaining. I've even had a trans woman try to mansplain womanhood to me, which was rather surreal considering I'd moved through the world as a woman for a heck of a lot longer than she had!

Have you all had people treat you a lot different after you transitioned?

Absolutely! People take me seriously now, and they treat me like a grown-up. There are advantages & disadvantages to this: on the one hand, I don't have to feel so frustrated all the time at being treated like a child. But on the other hand, if I need help with something then nobody will come to my assistance.

Y'know, I needed an oil change done on my car about 6 months before I decided to transition (so I was presenting as female at the time). I took it to the garage and they did the oil change. Not long after leaving the garage the oil light came on, so I checked the oil level to find that there was zero oil in my engine! I drove straight back and raised merry hell. I told them their incompetence could've destroyed my engine and I could've had a serious accident if it had seized on the motorway. I demanded they fix this immediately. You know what they did? They actually laughed at me. Oh, look at the hysterical woman losing her rag! How funny! Of course they fixed the problem and of course I never went back there again. But I'll never forget how humiliating it was that they laughed at my perfectly justified anger rather than treating me with the respect I deserved.

Fast-forward a year or two later and I'd been transitioning for some time, so I'd already changed my name etc. and was presenting as male. I had a different car & I took that into the dealership for its first service. In changing the oil they'd spilled some oil on the engine block, so about 20 minutes after I'd picked up the car there were clouds of acrid smoke billowing out from under the bonnet. The dealership had closed for the day so I rang them up on the Monday to complain. Within half an hour the manager of the Service Department was on the phone apologising profusely. He asked me to bring the car in the following day for an engine steam clean, and they provided me with a courtesy vehicle whilst they worked on mine, all free of charge. Then they threw in a free tank of fuel as an additional apology.

That's the difference. Men are treated with respect, and women get belittled. Awful, isn't it?

[josie76]

Well Julia, sounds like your dad and brother have had their protective instincts kick in. lol Its got to be strange when things flip like that.

The closest I've been is a few different times I had strangers hold a door at a gas station open for me. They were far closer to the door than I was and I even tried to tell them to go ahead. They insisted. My internal thoughts were WTF is going on? 

I don't pass, not trying to yet, was wearing jeans and my work button uniform shirt with my given name on it. I don't know if its the complexion change in my skin or the slight mounds I trying to hide under my sports bra and tee shirt, under my uniform. Something just kicks in in men? Weird huh??

[Raell]

Yup, Julia, it's that way with me. As a non-transitioning, gender fluid, partial transmale, I have to stop myself from leaping to open doors for women, and taking care of older people, since I resemble a senior, petite woman.

The instinct is powerful. In my case I mitigate my male instincts by taking derris scandens, a local Thai herb, that seems to blend my gender modes.

[ainsley]

I am treated like a woman now where ever I go.  It is challenging in some aspects, and easier in others, than it was before.  Conversations, especially at work, are different (more challenging).  I work in IT and am a security auditor.  Guys just don't start off giving me credit that I know what I am saying or doing.  Mansplaining is part of it for me.  I have learned to deal with it.  It is what it is.  They were raised that way, and the other girls I work with just wait, like I do, for them to finish and then we set them straight. 

I will say, that in public, being treated as a woman has its benefits and I appreciate that.  So, I am not sure if I perpetuate the problem of men thinking we are fragile and dim witted by accepting the chivalrous gestures and accommodations in public, or not. 

[Michelle_P]

I have to admit, it's a pretty odd experience.  I still have people misgender me with the occasional 'Sir', but that is pretty much limited to accidents from people I know, or occasional jerks that want to make sure that I know that they "are not fooled" by me (real comment from a crazy that followed me around in a mall a while back).

I'm definitely noticing changes in the behavior of others.  I have doors held for me all the time. I don't get the check unless I'm by myself in a restaurant.

I've noticed more subtle things on the street and in public as well.  Men, particularly older men, will walk directly towards me, expecting me to step aside.  (Watch people carefully.  This seems to be a common behavior.). An unaccompanied older single woman seems to be pretty low on the social pecking order.  Behavior that a male would consider rude are commonplace, like turning away in mid-conversation to start a new conversation with a male and leaving me hanging and un-introduced.

My opinion is generally disregarded in technical meetings, in spite of me being the most experienced and knowledgeable person in the room.  I have people mansplain my own presentations to me when I do tech programs!  Like Ainsley, I just wait them out, then lay into their argument with the physics and math and straighten them out.

(And yet I see men arguing, even on this site, that male privilege is a myth! Nope.  It's real, not all that subtle, and everywhere.  Most folks don't see it because they are soaking in it, just part of life like the air we breathe.  Oh, I've been asked to do a presentation on THIS! )

[Julia1996]

FtM diaries, my family is pretty backwards with how women are treated. My dad comes from a military family. The women were housewives. My grandpa is a dick the way he treats my grandma and women in general. Like they only are good for cooking, cleaning and sex. My dad got a good dose of that attitude and it looks like he gave some to my brother. He and my mom have had fights about his attitude toward women. My mom did stay home when my brother and I were little but as soon as we got older she started working again. Growing up my brother was used to her doing everything around the house so maybe he thinks that's is how it's supposed to be. I prefer to think that than thinking he's just a dick when it comes to how he treats women like my dad and grandpa. But that could be the fact.

[FTMDiaries]

You have a golden opportunity to help fix what your father's family's attitude has done to him, if you want to. There's still time for him to learn the error of his ways. If the only example he gets is the one your dad has shown him, he'll be in for a very rude awakening because there aren't a lot of women out there these days who would be willing to be treated like that. Or perhaps he's beyond help and really is a dick.

I have to say: your mother is just as much to blame for this as your father. She had the option to show her children that women aren't glorified domestic servants, but she opted for an old-fashioned model. That's her choice, but I'm afraid that decision is likely to bite her son on the backside.

You don't have to play along with it if you don't want to. As you said in another thread, it's 2017!

[ainsley]

You have a golden opportunity to help fix what your father's family's attitude has done to him, if you want to. There's still time for him to learn the error of his ways. ...

...  I have to say: your mother is just as much to blame for this as your father.  ...

I would say that there is no sense is showing your father the error of his ways, but you can break the cycle he created by working on your brother.   Also, yes, your mom is complicit, but you have the opportunity to break that cycle, too.  No sense trying to teach the old dogs new tricks.  Just take their influence from the puppies away...

[Julia1996]

I will try to help my brother change if it's even possible at this point. He spent a lot of time with my dad and grandpa growing up. Camping, fishing, football games, stuff I couldn't do because I can't really be in sunlight that long. I love my grandpa but he is the biggest sexist pig I ever have seen. My grandmother was talking about me starting college this fall and she said she hopes it goes well and that I don't have any problems.  My grandpa said he didn't know why I was going to college anyway. He said I was pretty and would be able to find a husband to take care of me and that we always could adopt some kids. He said college was for ugly girls and lesbians who couldn't get or didn't want a husband! He actually said that! And he tells jokes that devalue women all the time. Like: what do you call the useless excess skin around a vagina? A woman.  That one had my dad and brother almost on the floor laughing. I know my grandpa is old but I don't see how even a old guy can be such a pig!  My dad is 38. He's kind of old but he's young enough to know better than to buy into that stuff. His family is just messed up. I will try to enlighten my brother if he will listen to me.

[ainsley]

Yea, my grandparents were much like that, too.  Racists, to boot.  Rural Missouri...the things my grandparents said about other races were flabbergasting.  There was no changing them; just the cycle they had been trying to perpetuate. 
I managed to change my dad quite a bit before he died, and my mother has come leaps and bounds from her previous mindset.  It is possible to effect change in them, don't get me wrong, and maybe it is worth your while.  Just don't cast your pearls amongst swine.

[LizK]

here is the one that drives me crazy

"Men" who treat me as they might any other  woman, mansplaining, etc, etc all the things we talked about above, then they misgender you...what the hell!!! you treat me like you would any other female and then you misname and misgender me...

"Because I am trans you treat me in a misogynistic, sexist way, as you would any other female and then misgender me and treat me like a male?" and wonder what the fuss is all about when I object and become "pedantic" about pronouns...I have one specific male in mind who does this...

[FTMDiaries]

He said college was for ugly girls and lesbians who couldn't get or didn't want a husband! He actually said that! And he tells jokes that devalue women all the time. Like: what do you call the useless excess skin around a vagina? A woman.

If I were your grandma, I'd have smacked him upside the head for that sort of comment. I wonder whether he has any idea how it makes you feel when you hear these comments? He probably thinks he's being hilarious, but have you told him he's hurting you? Has anyone tried saying 'so does that mean you believe that Grandma is nothing more than useless excess skin around a vagina'?

My dad is 38. He's kind of old but he's young enough to know better than to buy into that stuff.

Your Dad is 8 years younger than me! 38 is actually still very young. Trust me, there was a lot of feminist stuff happening during his childhood & teenage years... but i daresay he preferred the message he was hearing from his father

I will try to enlighten my brother if he will listen to me.

Good for you. I doubt he'll listen to you if you try to tell him what to do, so you'll have to demonstrate a better example through your actions. So instead of telling him to tidy up, leave his stuff and refuse to do anything with it. Instead of cooking for him, cook your own food and tell him he knows where the fridge is if he's hungry. He can only get away with his behaviour if the women in his family enable him to do so... so simply refuse to enable him or anyone else.

[Dena]

Like: what do you call the useless excess skin around a vagina? A woman.

Turn it back on them. Say in that case, they can do their own cooking and cleaning.

[JMJW]

He said college was for ugly girls and lesbians who couldn't get or didn't want a husband! He actually said that! And he tells jokes that devalue women all the time. Like: what do you call the useless excess skin around a vagina? A woman.

This is a defence mechanism to protect himself from ever being hurt or humiliated by a woman. As Dr Phil has said, it's a pre-emptive strike: I'll get you before you can ever get me. It usually occurs with men who have taken some form of humiliation from a woman.

[AnneK]

My grandpa said he didn't know why I was going to college anyway. He said I was pretty and would be able to find a husband to take care of me

It wasn't just men that thought that way.  My grandmother believed a woman only needed enough education to keep house and raise children.  As a result, my mother didn't go to high school.  This was back in the '30s.

[josie76]

It's kinda funny how these things come from cultural influence. My grandpa, second gen German immigrant, has the built in attitude that women DO everything for the men. My grandma compiled often but definately gives him an attitude. Her mom from SE MO and SIL of Irish decent didn't put up with much, but her dad of mixed white and Cherokee lines was ultra kind to her mom. They apparently got along great even though they were poor MO farmers. My grandma never had an indoor toilet until she married into my grandpas family. They apparently got along well enough that my great grandma joked later in life that every time my great grandpa tossed his pants on the bedpost she got pregnant. 

My grandpa is the one close family member I have not come out to. Nor will I ever.