FFS Limitations ???

[Ypsf09]

Hi

I will soon be going to Korea in August to investigate more about their facial contouring surgery & skincare and to see if it could be helpful to me. In my research, I found this ID hospital video on YouTube which made me a bit uneasy.




Now this girl is very feminine yet instantly my transdar started going off ( based on just seeing her pics in the video tittle). After watching the entire video I was pretty sure she was trans which was confirmed by reading the comment section. A lot of people(mostly cis) also were able to tell/guess and that too very easily. I became very uneasy thinking:

1) "Is it that easy sometimes to spot a transgirl despite being so feminine"
2)"Can one ever achieve 100% stealth ?"
3)" She looks very feminine, also beautiful yet trans and there is no (conventional) FFS procedures that she can have to take that away"

I probably was have able to guess so easily because her hair was pulled back thus exposing her complete facial outline. If she were camouflaging her face using hair it may have not been that easy or possible. I personally do have to leverage certain hairstyles despite having had ffs(forehead, nose, chin) and not at all comfortable wearing it just pulled back tight.

Would you have guessed she is trans too? If so what facial features do you think gives it away despite being feminine and also beautiful. In my case upon thinking/analyzing further, I realized it was her head shape( wide, flat on top thus a rectangular/square shape) that made my brain subconsciously think she was trans and the reason she looks feminine/beautiful is because of her face(which is not framed by a feminine head). Currently ffs doesnt resolve such issues which I still see in most post op ffs faces.

Please understand that my intentions are not to disrespect anyone, I just want to understand the complex nature of facial feminization.

[Ritana]

I agree with you to some extent. Ffs can only do so much in feminising the face. I think in this girl's case, she had her nose done, and that gives her a slightly unnatural/ surgical look. That, combined with her high hairline can trigger the transdar in some people.. Very rarely would you get a 100 per cent natural result with a rhinoplasty.

Being asian, may play a role in her being perceived as trans too. The differences between facial features in asian men and asian women are quite subtle. I have a cis asian female friend who often gets suspected of being trans, despite being petite and feminine. The relatively tolerant asian culture towards transgenders makes it easier for asian transgenders to transition leading to  a greater number number of trangenders/ ladyboys than other parts of tge world. For example, when people think.of Thailand or the Philippines, one of tge first things that comes to.mind is transgender women. "

Finally, ffs will, in most cases,feminise the face. It is not meant to guarantee 100 per cent male features- free face.That in itself is a positive thing.

[Devlyn]

I don't understand why you have such a hardon for invalidating this woman on the forums. How many times are you going to post this and tell us about your magnificent transdar skills? 

[LizK]

Ypsfo9 I don't follow why you believe this girls is Trans?

[Sophia Sage]

There's nothing FFS can do to overcome posting YouTube videos on facial surgery... a bigger tell, imo, than her embodiment. 

[EmmaLoo]

Ypsfo9,

If there are folks who can empathize with your need to obtain or chase some internal level of feminine ideal, it's the people on this forum. Many have made the GCS/FFS journey only to recognize (hopefully) that the chase for perfection is a myth. If YOU can clock anyone, no matter what, as you claim, then you should assume that someone can just as easily clock you using the same methodology. It's not rocket science, it takes one to know one as they say.

My guess is that out of the context of this YouTube video or grouped with other trans-people, this woman is perceived as she presents 99% of the time. It's not likely that her facial features would be the elements giving her away, it would be something else like her hands or her voice, or even the shirt she's wearing that might say, "I'm Trans". Who knows? It's a rare individual that checks every box on the unclockable list and if they do, chances are they got most of the way there without any surgery. Perhaps they simply transitioned at a very young age?

If there is anything I can add after looking at the Korean surgery websites is that they have extremely photoshoped pictures using selective angels in their after images. Even in the videos, it's difficult to compare the real before and after results. That would make me uneasy too. I think they sell a nice story based on their expertise with V-line surgery in youthful Asian faces and it's aligned with their cultural norms. Personally, I think it looks a little extreme for Western FFS profiles. My aesthetics may be subjective, but the increased risk of complications from behind-the-ear V-line surgery is not. You should make sure you understand those risks while you're there and then follow that up with a 2nd opinion from another FFS surgeon at home.

We are ALL our own worst critic. You should take this to heart as you proceed because it looks like there's going to be a pretty harsh judge of your appearance looking back at you in the mirror. I wouldn't wish that on anyone and neither should you.

Beauty culture is a cruel, cruel mistress.

[oneoftwo]

Hi

I will soon be going to Korea in August to investigate more about their facial contouring surgery & skincare and to see if it could be helpful to me. In my research, I found this ID hospital video on YouTube which made me a bit uneasy.

This is about the 4th time those pictures have cropped up.   

1) They are photo shopped.

2) My opinion is that she is not improved in the after.  I prefer the before.

3) Further, if the "after" photograph represents her anticipated results that she asked her surgeon to achieve, then:
   
    - - - -  No ethical surgeon could have advised her that the risks of surgery were out weighed
              by the relatively insignificant results she was seeking to obtain.
   
On this forum, surgeons often catch harsh criticism for recommending "unnecessary" procedures.

This procedure was not only unnecessary,  but possibly counter productive.

[Celia0428]

I think we must be careful when we publicly comment on other people faces who may not be as interested (or obsessed) as we are on the subtleties of facial feminization surgery. This is an open forum and they may get to read what we write here and feel hurt.
This said, my personal opinion without any judgment on whether having one male facial feature is good or bad, is without a doubt that the masculinity on her face is all about her prominent brow bossing. And it's the only feature that wasn't included in the list of procedures.

[kelly_aus]

"magnificent transdar skills?"

Yep, works flawlessly - but only in trans spaces...

And why is it that it seems that only other trans women seem to walk around clocking trans women? In my discussions with cis women, they never seem to reach for the "Oh, they're trans." answer, only other trans women seem to..

[Ypsf09]

Finally, ffs will, in most cases,feminise the face. It is not meant to guarantee 100 per cent male features- free face.That in itself is a positive thing.

Sorry maybe I am confused but you think retaining some male features post face is a positive thing. Can you please explain why?

[Ypsf09]

I don't understand why you have such a hardon for invalidating this woman on the forums. How many times are you going to post this and tell us about your magnificent transdar skills? 

I can explain why but don't think you would really understand. I am not at all invalidating her...did u miss the part where I mention her being beautiful and very feminine. Plus this post is more about the complex nature of facial feminization surgery that some of us are interested in understanding with the goal of wanting to completely blend in society and accepted as regular "women"without the t involvement.

[Ypsf09]

Ypsfo9 I don't follow why you believe this girls is Trans?

Just mostly because of some of her facial features that show sign of her trans status

[Ypsf09]

There's nothing FFS can do to overcome posting YouTube videos on facial surgery... a bigger tell, imo, than her embodiment.

That's is very true. Lol

[Ypsf09]

Ypsfo9,

If YOU can clock anyone, no matter what, as you claim, then you should assume that someone can just as easily clock you using the same methodology. It's not rocket science, it takes one to know one as they say.

My guess is that out of the context of this YouTube video or grouped with other trans-people, this woman is perceived as she presents 99% of the time. It's not likely that her facial features would be the elements giving her away, it would be something else like her hands or her voice, or even the shirt she's wearing that might say, "I'm Trans". Who knows? It's a rare individual that checks every box on the unclockable list and if they do, chances are they got most of the way there without any surgery. Perhaps they simply transitioned at a very young age?

I never said no one could clock me. Also the reason I was instantly able to guess about her is because I am in a very similar situation to hers in the face department.  Our facial features are similar so I was able to tell instantly. But again if u read the comments section of her video there are a lot of cis people that did too. I felt uneasy not because I was able to Clock  her so easy but because other cis people were able to also.

[Ypsf09]

This is about the 4th time those pictures have cropped up.   

1) They are photo shopped.

2) My opinion is that she is not improved in the after.  I prefer the before.

3) Further, if the "after" photograph represents her anticipated results that she asked her surgeon to achieve, then:
   
    - - - -  No ethical surgeon could have advised her that the risks of surgery were out weighed
              by the relatively insignificant results she was seeking to obtain.
   
On this forum, surgeons often catch harsh criticism for recommending "unnecessary" procedures.

This procedure was not only unnecessary,  but possibly counter productive.

I was quite confused too if she looked better before assuming after pic is not photoshopped. In the after pics her facial outline is more softer but not as striking.  The other thing not so good is that the surgeon raised her nose bridge which made me think she looked more beautiful/ feminine before.

[Ypsf09]

I think we must be careful when we publicly comment on other people faces who may not be as interested (or obsessed) as we are on the subtleties of facial feminization surgery. This is an open forum and they may get to read what we write here and feel hurt.
This said, my personal opinion without any judgment on whether having one male facial feature is good or bad, is without a doubt that the masculinity on her face is all about her prominent brow bossing. And it's the only feature that wasn't included in the list of procedures.

Thanks Celia. I understand the concern and was praying that she hopefully doesn't frequent this site. But also based on her YouTube video comments, I am sure she is quite indifferent to what others feel. I personally feel she is very beautiful and feminine but just wanted to understand what was lacking. I am sure she would too given how particular she is about her face.

I do see she has some brow Bone, but not sure if it's prominent. I thought it looked to be in the female range.

[Ypsf09]

Yep, works flawlessly - but only in trans spaces...

And why is it that it seems that only other trans women seem to walk around clocking trans women? In my discussions with cis women, they never seem to reach for the "Oh, they're trans." answer, only other trans women seem to..

Well u obviously didn't read the comments section of the YouTube video where a lot of cis women/Men are commenting about her being trans when there is no mention of it in the video.

As far as my post goes, it more about to understand  )1 the technicalities of ffs, 2) why some girls like the one in YouTube video get read as trans despite being feminine and very soft looking 3) how come so many cis people instantly clocked her when there are people like you that believe cis woman don't care about clocking trans individuals.

[Ritana]

By positive, I was referring to the fact that FFS does feminise the fact despite the fact that it may not be able to eliminate all masculine features. That in itself can only be a positive thing.

[echo7]

The video listed the procedures that the woman had done - but why didn't she get any forehead work done?  Did she do it already with another surgeon?  If so, I think it was done poorly.  If not, then I think she should have prioritized the forehead work, if passing completely was her goal.  I feel that when it comes to Asian women, brow bossing removal is even more important.  A minimal brow ridge is sometimes seen on western cis women so it's ok, but Asian cis women just don't have it at all.  And so an Asian trans woman will be clockable in a very subtle way if she doesn't get that surgery.  Just my opinion.  Regardless, she is very beautiful and definitely looks better after her surgery.  Many women would be jealous to look like her - including me.

[EmmaLoo]

Well u obviously didn't read the comments section of the YouTube video where a lot of cis women/Men are commenting about her being trans when there is no mention of it in the video.

As far as my post goes, it more about to understand  )1 the technicalities of ffs, 2) why some girls like the one in YouTube video get read as trans despite being feminine and very soft looking 3) how come so many cis people instantly clocked her when there are people like you that believe cis woman don't care about clocking trans individuals.

My guess is that anyone looking at this video recognizes the context in which its presented on YouTube. At a minimum that context is a giant sign that reads,  this is probably a trans person. Sorry,  this isn't 1990 anymore,  our cover is blown. Lol!

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