Feminization perspectives after 4 years of HRT

[Natalia]

Hello,

I have been away from the forums for a while now. Probably none will remember me =(  but anyway... let's go to the question XD

I am on HRT for almost 4 years now (low doses most of the time) and I have been living full time almost since. So far everything is going well. I went back to studying at the unniversity, I have changed my name on all my documents (unfortunately, my gender can only be changed after SRS, but most of my documents hide the gender information, so I don't nee to worry most of the times my documents are needed)... and all those years I have never had any issues about being recognized as trans nor I have suffered any kind of discrimination.

Despite of being happy overall... I don't know if I am really satisfied with the feminization I got... Sometimes I look at the mirror and if I pull my hair on a ponytail...all that I see is that old boy face that I hated so much... (probably that ghost will never leave me).

I was just wondering... should I expect any further effects from the HRT? I mean... do you girls see any further feminization after this time period? Is it possible?

My doctor was considering raising some doses... but I fear I won't see any changes as most people say that all the HRT changes will be seen only up to 2-3 years from the beginning of the therapy and no further.

Also... I am with 30 yo... I don't know... probably I am being silly... but I fear being stuck at the level of feminization I got.

Thanks everyone <3

[Rachel_Christina]

I wonder what constitutes a low does? What are your levels like?
If you get them to normal female levels then changes will occur.
Does your low does have you in the female range?

[Natalia]

I wonder what constitutes a low does? What are your levels like?
If you get them to normal female levels then changes will occur.
Does your low does have you in the female range?

I don't know how much we can discuss doses here... but my estradiol levels were around 50~70 pg/mL for the most part of my transition (kind of on the lower female range... normal female range varies from ~50 to 500 pg/mL accordingly to the lab test results). Testosterone and free testosterone were within female range (around ~24 ng/dL and ~8 pmol/L respectively).

[Rachel_Christina]

Well if your T is in the female range then it's the main thing.
Why don't you bump up the estrogen?

[Natalia]

Well if your T is in the female range then it's the main thing.
Why don't you bump up the estrogen?

I was talking about that today with my doctor and she allowed me to raise the estrogen... but considering that most people says that feminization occurs within 2-3 years and stops...I don't know if I should expect further changes from now on (about fat distribution or breasts development)... should I?   

[Dee Marshall]

I heard MOST changes. Changes can continue for 5 to 7 years. Also, that's assuming normal (teenage girl) levels. Basically, minimal doses hardly count at all. My doctor just upped me to a normal dose six months ago and my changes accelerated. Before that, no waist, no hips or butt, tiny tatas.

[Paige]

I was talking about that today with my doctor and she allowed me to raise the estrogen... but considering that most people says that feminization occurs within 2-3 years and stops...I don't know if I should expect further changes from now on (about fat distribution or breasts development)... should I?   

Hi Natalia,

I don't think it works like that way.  If your dose isn't high enough you will not fully develop to your genetic potential.  This doesn't preclude you from raising your dose of E in the future and getting that growth.  I think the 2-3 years you talk about is for women who've been on a full dose for those years and many here past that time have still reported seeing improvements.

Dena one of the admins here has mentioned that even after many years, upping her dose has had recent improvements.     Some people who've been on low dose E for years and then starting taking a full dose, have still attained good results.

You might also look into bioidentical progesterone.

Take care,
Paige

[Natalia]

I heard MOST changes. Changes can continue for 5 to 7 years. Also, that's assuming normal (teenage girl) levels. Basically, minimal doses hardly count at all. My doctor just upped me to a normal dose six months ago and my changes accelerated. Before that, no waist, no hips or butt, tiny tatas.

Hi Natalia,

I don't think it works like that way.  If your dose isn't high enough you will not fully develop to your genetic potential.  This doesn't preclude you from raising your dose of E in the future and getting that growth.  I think the 2-3 years you talk about is for women who've been on a full dose for those years and many here past that time have still reported seeing improvements.

Dena one of the admins here has mentioned that even after many years, upping her dose has had recent improvements.     Some people who've been on low dose E for years and then starting taking a full dose, have still attained good results.

You might also look into bioidentical progesterone.

Take care,
Paige

Thanks Dee and Paige! 

I would love to see some more changes... somehow I feel that I was moving at a very slow pace and nothing was changing at all... (curse my previous doctor, who was holding me on a low dose... she even asked me to reduce the dose several times saying that higher estradiol doses woudn't matter... I think that this has to do to commercial issues since here the hormones are given freely by the public health care system... and allowing the trans people to get on higher doses would mean higher public money expent with hormones).

Well, who knows from now on, on higher estrogen, I can see something changing... perhaps a bit more fat here and there 

[Harley Quinn]

I honestly believe that they probably wrote that down wrong...  Like a game of telephone.  I believe it should have probably been stated as:

   "There is a degree of feminization that you are genetically predisposed to achieve.  Some of those major changes MAY be able to be achieved in 2 to 3 years"  **Leaving it open to take longer. 

It's not like your body will not develop because it's on a timer...  That once it's been introduced to estrogen that it will only recognize it for the first 2 or 3 years.  Low dose would seem to me to be something similar to delayed puberty...  Just stretching things out over a longer period of time. 

Perhaps the reason it seems less effective when its started later in life, is that cell division in our bodies are less rapid.  Not meaning that we won't reach the maximal feminization that we are genetically capable of achieving, but that our timelines are going to be longer than that of those who begin younger. 

Just my take on the idea of transition timelines...

[Julia1996]

Are you on blockers?  When I started hrt they gave me high doses of blockers and estrogen & progesterone.  I've had major changes in 2 years.
Julia

[Natalia]

Are you on blockers?  When I started hrt they gave me high doses of blockers and estrogen & progesterone.  I've had major changes in 2 years.
Julia

Yes, I am on cyproterone acetate (Androcur) since the first day. I am not too concerned about the T levels... they were always very low... my doctor even had to cut the blocker dose because I was feeling really tired with almost zero testosterone.

[Ⓥ]

I remember you... it's been a couple years, ya?

IMO you look great but you know what they say about who's our worst critics, rite?  (They eat popcorn with ketchup and olives)

[Rachel_Christina]

Well with your estrogen in proper female levels now, considering they wher on the low side, I can imagine you will see more changes.
I think the changes are always pretty minimal anyway, I mean for everyone, they are helped massively by how we dress, hairstyle the use of make up.
I spend little time looking for changes, I got bored of looking I guess, and that's when things started to happen lol

[Natalia]

Well with your estrogen in proper female levels now, considering they wher on the low side, I can imagine you will see more changes.
I think the changes are always pretty minimal anyway, I mean for everyone, they are helped massively by how we dress, hairstyle the use of make up.
I spend little time looking for changes, I got bored of looking I guess, and that's when things started to happen lol

You're right! Presentation is very important.... it counts for probably ~90% of it all. Keeping a feminine hairstyle, using proper clothes, mannerisms, voice, intonation...

But at the same time those ~10% of HRT effects also helps! A bit of body fat redistribution here and there doesn't hurt  (HRT had some good effects for me... but I feel they were more pronounced only at the first year and then,  probably due to low estradiol levels, they kind of stopped...).


.

[Natalia]

I remember you... it's been a couple years, ya?

IMO you look great but you know what they say about who's our worst critics, rite?  (They eat popcorn with ketchup and olives)

Thanks! 

Hahaha you're right! I think we, trans people, will always suffer from some kind of self image issue... perhaps we are too critic with ourselves, perhaps we just really can't see how much we have changed...  you know...there are days whereI feel good with who I see at the other side of the mirror... but there are days where I can't see anything else than that old masculine face... ugh. Self image issues mostly... I hope someday that goes away.

[Karen_A]

I think the changes are always pretty minimal anyway

For some breast growth and fat redistribution can be pretty dramatic... for others they can be minimal....

I have seen both cases.

- karen

[stephaniec]

In my case its a lot to do with genetics. My older sister is big in the breast and hip area and my younger sister is in between.

[RobynD]

You do look great. At about 2+ years i noticed a lot of change fairly early but less lately other than weight redistribution. I believe my breasts are also continuing to expand but at a slower rate.

From what i have heard, there is real advantage in increasing doses, no matter what point in transition you are at and i have heard of women getting new changes decades later with hormone adjustments.

[stephaniec]

You do look great. At about 2+ years i noticed a lot of change fairly early but less lately other than weight redistribution. I believe my breasts are also continuing to expand but at a slower rate.

From what i have heard, there is real advantage in increasing doses, no matter what point in transition you are at and i have heard of women getting new changes decades later with hormone adjustments.

thanks

[Ⓥ]

You do look great. At about 2+ years i noticed a lot of change fairly early but less lately other than weight redistribution. I believe my breasts are also continuing to expand but at a slower rate.

From what i have heard, there is real advantage in increasing doses, no matter what point in transition you are at and i have heard of women getting new changes decades later with hormone adjustments.

thanks