How important is function for depth

[KathyLauren]

I hope you don't have to use "it" regularly for good SRS results! If so I'm screwed.

Yeah, you and me both, Julia! 

I have tried playing with it a couple of times since starting HRT, and in a cost-benefit analysis, it just wasn't worth it.  Dr. Brassard is just going to have to work with what's there.

Lucky thing for me I'm leaning towards the "cosmetic" variation of GRS.  It's not like I'm going to be using a vagina for anything.

[HappyMoni]

I believe that penile inversion can be a bit of a misleading term. Consider that the penis is much higher on the body than the position of where the new vagina is. Unless one is extremely well endowed, it is not going to stretch all the way down there and be long enough to serve as the vagina. I think many doctors use scrotal skin for much of the the interior of the vagina. I think this is called a hybrid penile inversion. Depth has a lot to do with the space that is available. Depth can be increased  through pressure during dilation, well, to some extent. This is my understanding , at least with some procedures.
Moni

[AnonyMs]

I don't know the answer, but there is significant variation depending on Surgeon. Suporn averages 7", which I believe is above average. Some, if not most, surgeons are definitely below that.

Maximum vaginal depth attained with the scrotal skin graft beyond the original position of the peritoneal reflection (Douglas Pouch). A minimum of 6.0" (15.25 cm) vaginal depth is guaranteed immediately after surgery in all cases of SRS. The modal average is 7.0" (17.8 cm) depth.
http://www.supornclinic.com/restricted/srs/srstechnique.aspx

To quite my previous post, I may be wrong, but I believe the reason that Suporn gets so much depth is the part I in bold. I don't think many other surgeons do this, so it doesn't matter if they take a graft from elsewhere or not, its still going to be limited in depth by this part of the body.

[Ellement_of_Freedom]

Yes, your vagina will be tighter than a cis woman's vagina, but a LOT of men prefer this.  Men tend to like it when their penis is being gripped tightly inside the vaginal canal.  Some men say that having sex with a post-op trans woman is like having sex with a permanent virgin. 

This is the best part. We won't be loosey-gooseys.

The downside is it may cause some premature endings. Haha!

[SadieBlake]

   This notion that the Thai surgeons are going to get their patients more depth is somewhat absurd. All the surgeons I know of doing pi technique take partial thickness skin grafts to achieve depth if the penile skin isn't sufficient. As someone said earlier, the only limitation is the peritoneal wall.

Also I know post op women who are capable of enjoying vaginal fisting, while this doesn't preclude being "tight" which simply comes from the PC muscles, it certainly says that there is little functional difference between a neo vs natal vagina.

[AnonyMs]

Echo, this notion that the Thai surgeons are going to get their patients more depth is somewhat absurd. All the surgeons I know of doing pi technique take partial thickness skin grafts to achieve depth if the penile skin isn't sufficient. As someone said earlier, the only limitation is the peritoneal wall.

I think these posts support the view that depth is normally limited by the peritoneal reflection, which Suporn goes past. I don't know the why's of it.

Peritoneal reflection
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=69603.0

Re: Dr. Christine McGinn vs Dr. Suporn SRS?
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,220916.msg1966787.html#msg1966787

Re: Considering Suporn and Brassard for SRS
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,90908.msg916109.html#msg916109

[Bari Jo]

This thread has been very enlightening.  I might not be able to take my favourite partner fully vaginally, but can pretty much most men.  That note on fisting, Wth?  I don't even know how that is possible.

Bari Jo

[Roll]

That note on fisting, Wth?  I don't even know how that is possible.

8 years of training by Tibetan monks in which every day consists of 16 hours of meditation and learning to control every muscle in one's physical form, that's how.

Oh, or maybe drugs. Probably more likely the drugs.

[echo7]

  This notion that the Thai surgeons are going to get their patients more depth is somewhat absurd. All the surgeons I know of doing pi technique take partial thickness skin grafts to achieve depth if the penile skin isn't sufficient. As someone said earlier, the only limitation is the peritoneal wall.

And yet, time after time, Chettawut and Suporn girls consistently have more depth than girls who went to surgeons who use the PI method. 

[Maria77]

About the original question, over time on hrt you do lose size.  I've been on hrt for nearly 20 years and have lost some tissue.  Thankfully I had more than enough to start 😒with, so the loss shouldn't be troubling to my surgeon. I think if you don't exercise it once in a while, the nerves begin to fail, and when you get srs in this scenario you will still be unable to orgasm. 

Echo is right that Suporn and Chettawhut do tend to get better depth on average.    BITD the penile inversion surgeons typically got 5 while Suporn was getring 7.  Originally that was the big draw for Suporn-his consistantly higher depth attracted clients more that the aesthetics at first.   I think the PI surgeons may now be getting close to 6; but Suporn and Chet still at 7 or more.  (Ironically Sanguan who uses a very similar method to Suporn only gets 5, but then again, the last I heard was a few years back). There are trade offs with either approach.   

[Maria77]

One other thing I've long wondered about.  A lot of post-op women with 5 inches of depth or less often say it doesn't matter in coitus and that they can handle large organs 🎹.  I am suspicious of this narrative, sort of like the hair in vagina issue.  Having transitioned many years ago and being out in the clubs, I encountered a good number partners over 5/6 inches.  One boyfriend was 9 and another 8.  The average natal female can stretch and accomodate just about any size.   I just am not sure that a 5 inch neo vagina can accomodate a 8/9 inch penis which is above average, but fairly common.  It seems like only some of Suporn/Chet's work or the colon version can handle that size. 

[Roll]

Ugh, browser locked up while posting. Was gonna ask... does any of this have bearing on the newer peritoneal method? I'm hopeful by the time I consider gcs it will be more readily available, since early reports make it sound like the other methods are basically obsolete with it in play, but wondering if anyone knows how things such as sensitivity might relate to continued use of male parts in the meanwhile (obviously depth wouldn't be impacted).

[AnonyMs]

Was gonna ask... does any of this have bearing on the newer peritoneal method? I'm hopeful by the time I consider gcs it will be more readily available, since early reports make it sound like the other methods are basically obsolete with it in play

There's very little early reports and the article was basically marketing. Its far to soon to say if its actually any good.

[TinaVane]

A cis woman's vagina increases in length and width when she is aroused.  Her uterus moves upward to allow for the vaginal canal to lengthen, and the vagina widens inside ("tenting") to accommodate penetration from a penis.

A trans woman's vagina does not have these properties. The depth you get after surgery is the depth you always have.  It doesn't lengthen or widen when you get turned on.

This is why cis women don't really think about depth, because their vagina dynamically changes for sex.  It just happens, so they don't have to think or worry about it.   But since trans women's vaginas don't naturally expand for sex, having good depth from surgery is often a high priority for those who expect to have sex with men.

If post-op vaginal depth is important to you, you will likely want to have non-inversion SRS (Suporn or Chettawut), or sigmoid-colon SRS.

So glad you put this info out. I'm sick of reading some comments here saying well the cis female vaginas are average 5 inches deep ... while purposely ignoring your first paragraph here .... they keep on saying these things here n I wish more people start educating them bout the cis  female anatomy


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[rmaddy]

Ugh, browser locked up while posting. Was gonna ask... does any of this have bearing on the newer peritoneal method? I'm hopeful by the time I consider gcs it will be more readily available, since early reports make it sound like the other methods are basically obsolete with it in play, but wondering if anyone knows how things such as sensitivity might relate to continued use of male parts in the meanwhile (obviously depth wouldn't be impacted).

If it's as good as the hype, you probably won't need to wait too long for it to become the default technique.  Most things aren't as good as the hype, although as a doctor I recognize the potential advantages in this case.  I asked my surgeon (Manrique) about it and his response made it clear that it wasn't on the short term horizon for his practice.  And, after the butt kicking that I recently suffered from FFS/BA, I'm pretty sure that I don't want to be a whole lot older when I go through GCS.  I'll take the technique with which they are most experienced.