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Am I missing something ???

Started by newgirltx, July 23, 2017, 07:12:36 PM

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newgirltx

So I am fairly new to community and started HRT 5 months ago. I was mostly passing before HRT and now I am full-time. In my attempt to make trans friends, I decided to go out with 3 other transwomen that I had met at the local lgbt center. However after spending two hours with them, I realized  we had very different opinions on certain trans related things mainly:

1. How I view Trans woman vs them:  In my mind, I am a biological man that has a very feminine soul/mind. Hence transitioning to align my body with my mind. I want to be complete stealth( with few exceptions) but still nothing can change the fact that I am a biological male. Now they view Trans woman as females that were born with deformity ....hence transitioning to correct that. While I wish this was really true  but I know I will never be able to accept that thought process as I am way too realistic for that.

2. Dating: They view males that don't want to go out with them as bigots/discriminating while I just see that as a  preference and nothing wrong with that.

3. Practice non disclosure when it comes to dating: while I do want to be mostly stealth after srs, I believe prospective partners have to know about my trans stAtus before physical intimacy. I do think life would be much easier with non disclosure but that would be very wrong. Those other trans woman think if one is very passable, then non disclosure should be practiced as that makes things very easier. Isn't that a selfish thing though?


Wondering if these ideology is very common in our community or those women were exceptions?

Thanks
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HappyMoni

The simple answer is you are your own person and don't have to conform to others ways of thought. Everyone has their own viewpoint. If they disrespect you they are not your friends. Welcome by the way. Glad u are here. My name is Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
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tgirlamg

Welcome to the forum newgirltx!!!

Like Moni said... It doesn't really matter what the transwomen you were with think! Their opinions are just that....We all have our own path to travel and make all the aspects of this process of transition fit who we are and where we want to go with our lives....

Congrats on the HRT and wishing you all good things as you continue to move forward!!! I hope we see more of you around here!!!

Onward we go!!!

Ashley :)

"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" ... Ralph Waldo Emerson 🌸

"The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe... But, no price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself" ... Rudyard Kipling 🌸

Let go of the things that no longer serve you... Let go of the pretense of the false persona, it is not you... Let go of the armor that you have worn for a lifetime, to serve the expectations of others and, to protect the woman inside... She needs protection no longer.... She is tired of hiding and more courageous than you know... Let her prove that to you....Let her step out of the dark and feel the light upon her face.... amg🌸

Ashley's Corner: https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247549.0.html 🌻
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sammie-em

You are not alone in this thinking. I'm the same way... I have a very realistic mind... I also am more centered, I guess, politically so I feel that will make things difficult for me making friends with other trans people. But I'm far from being able to start my transition and am focused on those battles right now.

Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk

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Dani

Honesty with the person you have a deep personal relationship is the single most important part of that relationship. How can you trust someone if they withhold the truth about themselves?

For everyone else, "What You See Is What I Am". No need to get more involved than that.
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Wanda Jane

I've hung out with a lot of other trans women here in San Antonio I've met at a support group. I've found much the same in many of them. Sounds like we think a lot alike. I'm trans and always will be and am proud of it. I have experience and feelings that cis women don't. I do have a couple of other trans women I hang out with a lot who feel the same. We always have a blast. We can discuss and share things no one else understands. And yeah I would always be upfront with prospective partners!
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Dena

Welcome to Susan's Place. You didn't mention ages but it sounds like you are much more mature than the others. You have taken much more information into consideration in deciding how you want to live your life. This doesn't mean you can get along with the others but you have to agree to disagree.

We have the difference in opinion on this site as well but even more so. We have girls who were able to start blockers in their teens and as the result, they haven't had the years of living with their birth gender that the rest of us had. For them a CIS like existence is possible where their past can be almost totally hidden.

I can understand both viewpoints however I decided a long time ago that I would live my life matching your standards to ensure a strong bond of trust with others.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read




Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
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  •  

echo7

Quote from: newgirltx on July 23, 2017, 07:12:36 PM
So I am fairly new to community and started HRT 5 months ago. I was mostly passing before HRT and now I am full-time. In my attempt to make trans friends, I decided to go out with 3 other transwomen that I had met at the local lgbt center. However after spending two hours with them, I realized  we had very different opinions on certain trans related things mainly:

1. How I view Trans woman vs them:  In my mind, I am a biological man that has a very feminine soul/mind. Hence transitioning to align my body with my mind. I want to be complete stealth( with few exceptions) but still nothing can change the fact that I am a biological male. Now they view Trans woman as females that were born with deformity ....hence transitioning to correct that. While I wish this was really true  but I know I will never be able to accept that thought process as I am way too realistic for that.

I have a very difficult time believing that someone who is currently living full-time and eventually planning on living in complete stealth still thinks of themselves as a "man... with a very feminine soul/mind".

Trans women are biologically women in the way that matters most - our brains.  Our mentality, our minds, our very souls are female. 

Claiming that you are "way too realistic" to accept yourself as female tells me that you have a lot to learn about what it means to be trans.  Are you implying that trans women who don't subscribe to your view are less realistic?  That we are living in a fantasy?  Honestly, it feels like a thinly veiled insult.
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Lady Sarah

The way I see it; some f us might feel one way on the inside, but choose to portray themselves as cis-female in public. This would prevent bigots from reading them too quickly. Being read in Texas may be a very dangerous thing. I know. I live be about 3 hours north of San Antonio.
started HRT: July 13, 1991
orchi: December 23, 1994
trach shave: November, 1998
married: August 16, 2015
Back surgery: October 20, 2016
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AshleyP

Quote from: echo7 on July 23, 2017, 09:48:11 PM
Honestly, it feels like a thinly veiled insult.

I didn't feel insulted at all.
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Paige

Quote from: echo7 on July 23, 2017, 09:48:11 PM
I have a very difficult time believing that someone who is currently living full-time and eventually planning on living in complete stealth still thinks of themselves as a "man... with a very feminine soul/mind".

Trans women are biologically women in the way that matters most - our brains.  Our mentality, our minds, our very souls are female. 

Claiming that you are "way too realistic" to accept yourself as female tells me that you have a lot to learn about what it means to be trans.  Are you implying that trans women who don't subscribe to your view are less realistic?  That we are living in a fantasy?  Honestly, it feels like a thinly veiled insult.

I tend to agree with Echo.  I don't really like being called unrealistic.  Saying a trans-woman is really a biological man sounds a lot like something that would come out of the mouth of someone like McHugh or some other anti-trans crusader.

We may not be cis-female but we're definitely not cis-male.

Paige :)


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Janes Groove

Quote from: newgirltx on July 23, 2017, 07:12:36 PM
I am a biological man that has a very feminine soul/mind.

I honestly don't see the problem with a transgender person expressing this.  It's 100% valid and aligns with many gender concepts like, non-binary, gender fluid, two-spirit, and third gender. Just to name a few.
Why do we have to police the way people identify as transgender?

Are we the gender police?  Are we playing mirror mirror on the wall, who's the most transgender of all?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Laurie

Hi newgirltx

I'm Laurie. I would like to say hi and welcome you to Susan's place. (Hug)  I'm not going to say anything about who's right or who's wrong that is not anything for me to decide. What I can say is that there is a lot of diversity in the world and in our own little social sphere of the transgender spectrum. I am trans and I have my own feelings and ideas on the subject and so does each and every one of us. You cannot judge one another's personal views more than to assess whether they are close enough to yours for you to get along with that person. If not then you move on to another person that you can. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. SO don't dwell on it if it differs from your own. There is room for both.

  I hope you like it here at Susan's because there are a lot of good people here to help if you have a need. On the flip side their are a lot of others here that your own experiences may be of help. What I'm saying is that we want and need you here. I hope you will decide to stick around.

Hugs,
   Laurie
April 13, 2019 switched to estradiol valerate
December 20, 2018    Referral sent to OHSU Dr Dugi  for vaginoplasty consult
December 10, 2018    Second Letter VA Psychiatric Practical nurse
November 15, 2018    First letter from VA therapist
May 11, 2018 I am Laurie Jeanette Wickwire
May   3, 2018 Submitted name change forms
Aug 26, 2017 another increase in estradiol
Jun  26, 2017 Last day in male attire That's full time I guess
May 20, 2017 doubled estradiol
May 18, 2017 started electrolysis
Dec   4, 2016 Started estradiol and spironolactone



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Dayta

I think that the community of transgender women is a great place to come and to talk about the process of transitioning, including things about the effects of hormones, the possible ways of accomplishing physical changes, etc.  but when it comes to finding people with shared interests, you're looking at a population of maybe 1% of people, so the likelihood of finding people who share your specific interests gets very slim, especially if you start adding geography and the practicality of meeting people in person. 

In the end, there are limits to how much and what kind of support and community you may find in places like this one.  While you may very well find some kinship with others who share your own values and preferences, you may be just as likely to find yourself at odds. 

If nothing else, it's certainly an opportunity to allow yourself to grant some compassion and empathy for others who may not share your specific views.  By setting an example, you may very well plant a seed that could encourage that empathy in another.  Sad as it may seem, being an example may be the most powerful weapon in your armory, even if the outcome is still 100% up to the other to follow that example. 

Erin




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Cindy

 :police:

Let us be careful to discuss issues and not provoke argument please.
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Anne Blake

Hi Newgirltx,

You bring up some interesting points. The dating aspects of your post don't really apply to me as my partner and I have been together for thirty plus years and are not looking to change this. While some hold to keeping stealth, even in their relationships, we try to have no secrets between each other. It is a matter of choice and it works for us.

The quandary of what a Transgender woman is has caused me much angst. I wrestled long and hard to accept that I am Transgender and that I could live with it. It almost killed me. Now that I can accept that I am a Trans woman, the distinction between CIS  and Trans designator loses significance to me. I am happy being me, something that was not a common part of my life in the past. I present as a woman and interact with the world as a woman. I feel and see myself as a woman and live my life as a woman. When I stopped being concerned about the designator before "woman" I have been able to live, experience, contribute and find happiness. When I am laughing with or crying with a sister, sharing lives and holding each other up during common struggles it makes no difference what each other's internal biology suggests. At that point it makes no difference of cis or Trans, we are both women and doing what is truly important in life. Some may consider all this as syntax or personal perspective but over the past few months I have been given the opportunity to join in some woman's groups that share deeply personal life stuff; things that they would never discuss with a man present. I felt honored to be able to share in such intimate revelations. Had I considered myself to be a cis man, even with a femine heart, I would have felt wrong and a fraud, an imposter taking advantage of a trust. But I am a woman and I belonged there.

It is quite late here and I have been rambling, please forgive me if I have offended anyone.

Anne
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xFreya

Why would you think a trans woman is "biologically a man"? What aspects are you referring to?

Let's say we are talking about a trans woman who "went all the way". (I'm not getting into the brain parts)

Sex chromosomes - probably XY but that doesn't affect anything at this point
Hormones - female
Secondary sex characteristics - female (ofc if she went through male puberty there might be a few things left)
Genitals etc - female (except the prostate)
Gonads - none

I like to think it very similar to a cis female who had to have a complete hysterectomy. You can say biologically intersex, biologically MTF trans or whatever. No one is saying a trans woman is biologically %100 same as a healthy cis woman. But in most medical situations it might be harmful to consider a trans woman "biologically male" unless she hasn't medically transitioned of course.


On the other topic. If one says "I would never ever date a trans person no matter what genitals they have, even if they look cis" then yes that's in my opinion transphobic (unless it's because they want biological children) but ofc it's their right and I don't personally care. I wouldn't want to date anyone who won't see me as female anyway.

About 3, I don't think there's anything wrong with non disclosure for one night stands, no one has to explain their medical history. (unless one has stds imo) But I would have safety concerns.
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Harley Quinn

I believe you hit some good points as well. There are many different views and many different people. Everyone is going to take a different stance on the way they wish to transition. I align closely with your views, but there is no real right and wrong. I believe for the most part, your ideals will help you transition more smoothly with less confrontation.

As for "similar with any girl with a deformity being corrected through surgery", that's a wonderful way to view it. In the end, we are all just people who want to feel good about ourselves. Nobody in their right mind seeks anything but their personal happiness at the end of the day. You continue being happy and you will meet many more like minded people. 😙
At what point did my life go Looney Tunes? How did it happen? Who's to blame?... Batman, that's who. Batman! It's always been Batman! Ruining my life, spoiling my fun! >:-)
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Rachel_Christina

Yep I think the same way.

I would love to know the reason for why we are this way. But until then I'm just a person who feels female, even though I was born male, and so lives as a female.


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Aurorasky

I tend to agree with xFreya. I see myself as a woman, never a man. Since I was little, everybody told me I was different and I definitely felt different. Something wasn't quite right. It didn't take me long to find out eheheh but could only transition at 18 (before I had no support from parents).

And since I transitioned at 18, two years ago, when I hopefully reach 60 and am an old lady the risk factos I face will be very similar to women of that age group, minus anything that is related to gonads or uteri. Because that's a lifetime on HRT and with SRS. So yes I view trans women as women. We're obviously not exactly the same as women who can bear a child but still I very much doubt we stay completely biologically male for the rest of our lives. It might be different the later someone transitions, I don't know. But I certainly don't feel like a man and never have. Never will when even my voice sounds female, when everyone treats me as a girl, and when being with a guy just feels right. But I respect those who view it differently.

Also, I'm one who lives stealth but not to romantic partners. That said, I am not dating because I'm having my surgery on September and want to be as stable as possible. Maybe my view on this will change too after surgery. I don't believe one has the right to know your medical history unless you actually have an infecto-contagious disease (which trans isn't) or you still are pre-op, especially if a night stand. But I dont know if I could keep up wit hiding in a committed relationship. I think it would cause me major trust issues.
Love,

Aurora Beatriz da Fonseca
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