Anyone living stealth without FFS?

[Sophia Sage]

I feel like I won the genetic lottery, but there are some that need FFS, but many who do not. Voice and mannerisms also a huge factor and are just an important as the physical parts.

If there's one thing I've found that helps massively it's the voice. If you can nail a feminine voice you're sorted.

A really good voice can reverse a clocking! 

It's funny to see a stranger stumbling over themselves to apologize after an inadvertent misgendering.  (And which shows how people really think about misgendering.)

[Sophia Sage]

Do you girls think a masculine forehead is a big "tell"? There is a lot variation for most things but I feel like it's quite rare for cis women to have a masculine forehead.

It's a very striking feature, and I rarely see it, maybe 1 in 200 women (if not more) -- and I see a lot of different women day in and day out with my job. 

In the women I've seen brow bossing, though, that was the only "masculine" feature to be found.  It's not a tell in of itself.  I still gendered these women as women because everything else was obvious. 

But it's so rare for any of us to only have brow bossing to worry about.

I do think correcting brow bossing has the biggest effect on facial perception.

I still get the same paranoia. 😊 Mostly because I get stared at a lot and I have no idea why. No matter what it's ma'am or miss so I too often wonder what's going on. Why the stares if I am not being clocked? Are they just being incredibly nice?

Before I had facial surgery, I noticed something very similar.  I passed well enough before it, mind you, mainly because of my voice (and having long hair, kept since I turned 18), but there was always a "lag" time in interacting with someone new, as if part of their subconscious mind needed extra time to resolve the ambiguity of my features.

That "delay" completely disappeared after facial surgery. 

[Sophia Sage]

Actually I believe it has a lot to do with attitude and voice training is a must. If you can get those 2 things down then some may suspect but they won't know for sure unless you tell and I don't tell.

This is what it takes for long-term non-disclosure, given a baseline of passability.

In my opinion we have to view it as intangible not a thing to improve or acquire but a mindset that will slowly take over as we go along. ! IF ! We follow the examples of the other women who have been doing it their whole life.

This is what "transsexing" really is.

[Lady Lisandra]

I started hormones when I was 20. I think the biggest problem I had was myself. Had I wanted to be a cute anime girld, I would be very sad and dissappointed now. Thanks the gods I came to accept the big, androgynous girl which fits my body better. I'd suggest you do the same. Instead of having an ideal image of the perfect girl that you may or may not achieve (which happens to a lot of cis girls also) be open to everything, find what suits you best and what will get the most of what you have. This is probably one of the reasons for not even considering FFS.

Voice is a big part, but don't worry about your pitch. I speak in a rather low voice for a female, but nobody has ever expressed any suspicion that I was trans. The important things for me are modulation and resonance, the first is how much you vary your tone or pitch while you speak, and the second is wich part of your body vibrates when you voice comes out. Look up for voice exercices in the internet if you haven't yet. It can take some time to discover the correct technique.

Remember you can always hide or disguise the features you don't like or think that will get you clocked. For example you can disguise your forehead with a haircut, like a fringe. I don't know how your nose is, but there can be something to do to take attention away from it.

Personally, I don't live stealth, I just don't tell if I'm not asked. Unless I consider someone important in my life.

[xFreya]

It's a very striking feature, and I rarely see it, maybe 1 in 200 women (if not more) -- and I see a lot of different women day in and day out with my job. 

In the women I've seen brow bossing, though, that was the only "masculine" feature to be found.  It's not a tell in of itself.  I still gendered these women as women because everything else was obvious. 

But it's so rare for any of us to only have brow bossing to worry about.

I do think correcting brow bossing has the biggest effect on facial perception.

My mom always points out that cis women can have this or that. But if I have like 2-3 masculine or androgynous features in addition to brow bossing I believe people will suspect, even if they don't realize what's wrong at first.

Before I had facial surgery, I noticed something very similar.  I passed well enough before it, mind you, mainly because of my voice (and having long hair, kept since I turned 18), but there was always a "lag" time in interacting with someone new, as if part of their subconscious mind needed extra time to resolve the ambiguity of my features.

That "delay" completely disappeared after facial surgery.

This is what I'm hoping. 

I started hormones when I was 20. I think the biggest problem I had was myself. Had I wanted to be a cute anime girld, I would be very sad and dissappointed now. Thanks the gods I came to accept the big, androgynous girl which fits my body better. I'd suggest you do the same. Instead of having an ideal image of the perfect girl that you may or may not achieve (which happens to a lot of cis girls also) be open to everything, find what suits you best and what will get the most of what you have. This is probably one of the reasons for not even considering FFS.

Voice is a big part, but don't worry about your pitch. I speak in a rather low voice for a female, but nobody has ever expressed any suspicion that I was trans. The important things for me are modulation and resonance, the first is how much you vary your tone or pitch while you speak, and the second is wich part of your body vibrates when you voice comes out. Look up for voice exercices in the internet if you haven't yet. It can take some time to discover the correct technique.

Remember you can always hide or disguise the features you don't like or think that will get you clocked. For example you can disguise your forehead with a haircut, like a fringe. I don't know how your nose is, but there can be something to do to take attention away from it.

Personally, I don't live stealth, I just don't tell if I'm not asked. Unless I consider someone important in my life.

I just want a more feminine version of my own face, what it could have been.

I can get a fringe as a temporary solution but I'm not sure if it will work for my face. 

I've been trying to improve my voice for a loong time but I'm stuck in a point where it's just passable but not the kinda good that would reverse a clocking. My starting point was gender ambigous anyway I don't know why I can't improve more.

[Aurorasky]

Hey xFreya! Really interesting topic, kuddos but first, I think we gotta define what stealth is. Is it living without being asked about your previous history, because nobody can "tell" you ever were any other way? Or rather nobody in your life knowing about your past? Or something in between?

I think to be completely stealth depends more on narrative than just passing. I started HRT at 18, I was always light built, had a fatty face and a really high voice (which gave me real trouble but now it's blessing). My parents didn't support me until I was 19 and managed to change my name, as I was working as girl but without my name changed. It's a tough situation, your boss has to be really understanding not to tell anyone. Anyhow, somehow I was able to get my documents changed so I am now studying nursing. My policy is not to tell anyone, unless I'm asked. The thing is I'm never asked. Really, things have the meaning and importance we give them.

Honestly, I just wanted to carry on life without having to explain my existence to people, which is what I was always doing before HRT. I feel like being open about this would really be another cage I would get stuck in. That's the last thing I want now. To me, this change was really organic. With the exception of some close friends and my family, I don't talk about it. And even if people know, I still don't talk about it. As an example, since my parents are paying for SRS and BA, I offered myself to help in their small company. Most of the people there knew me since little. The first day I entered there since HRT was this Thursday. I acted natural and like I had always acted (helps that I have been feminine always) and smiled at everybody. It was really nice, actually. I learned a lot about the company and interacted with people and conversed with women who thought I didn't remembre them but I did and asked about their kids. I got mostly compliments.

To sum up, things do have the meaning we give to them. I don't give much importance to transition because it will be done soon and I did this to be able to live life as whole not get stuck in another closet. I just want to grow as a person, find hobbies and expand my abilities.

It's a very striking feature, and I rarely see it, maybe 1 in 200 women (if not more) -- and I see a lot of different women day in and day out with my job. 

In the women I've seen brow bossing, though, that was the only "masculine" feature to be found.  It's not a tell in of itself.  I still gendered these women as women because everything else was obvious. 

But it's so rare for any of us to only have brow bossing to worry about.

I do think correcting brow bossing has the biggest effect on facial perception.

Side note: Sophia, this is really true. It's a striking feature. I definitely have slight brow bossing and a mediterrean nose I want to get rid of. This is what mostly concerns me, as I pass now even with those features but as I age that may not hold true anymore. I don't know!! There's no lag for people to gender me. And even those who know say nobody else would know, unless told. However, this feature makes me dysphoric and it's all too common in trans women. I can't really get a fringe as that will really emphasize my nose. But I have big eyes I love and I think brow bossing downplays my eyes.

[xFreya]

Hey xFreya! Really interestinbg topic, kuddos but first, I think we gotta define what stealth is. Is it living without being asked about your previous history, because nobody can "tell" you ever were any other way? Or rather nobody in your life knowing about your past? Or something in between?

I think the first one. My relatives, some friends of my mother and some old friends know already. But I don't want it to come up with new people, unless they are really close maybe. Most people will see me differently if it does. Even the sympathetic or indifferent people, unless they are educated about it. And I can't educate everyone. Like you I want to focus on different things. I don't want to have to explain my story and science of these to people so they can maybe see me as who I am.