When you experince hate by someone on the spectrum.

[SailorMars1994]

This is a very interesting, sad and quite ironic twist. Has anyone here expericned hate or shame from someone on the  spectrum. Such as a transsexual invalidating a non-binary or non-binary invalidating a transsexual or anyting else on the spectrum. I have read many times on line some transsexuals who will put down NB people as confused, in denial, attention seekers and other horrible things because they either are not super dysphoric about their birth gender or dont feel any need do a full transition. On the other side, i have seem self proclaimed NB people spout hate to transsexuals as well. The most famous? Jamie Shoupe. The first legal NB American from Oregon. The have in recent times, and from what i have seen only 2017 recent times been spouting off about how ''you cant feel what being a boy or girl is''. or that trans-women will never expericne ''real'' women issues like monthlys, child birth, ect and made some really lame analogy that you go to a hen for eggs, not a rooster wanting to be a hen. Then goes on to state that they agree with TERFS, the far right and hard core religious in ''protecting'' trans kids from ''evil'' doctors. Really weird things..

Then there was this old former friend i once had. Her name was Rachel,we were quite close in grade 7 by after grade 7 became very distant. Anyways, she had always been a tomboy. In grade 7 I remeber her as being somewhat feminine looking but with a boy-ish/girl-ish (at times) attitude, and oftening jumping from one of my male friends to the next. I suppose trying to figure out her own orenatation. As the years went on she started to look much more butch like and came out as lesbian. Like she ended up looking like a Victoria Beckam kinda to Justin Beiber. Anyways, last March, March 15 2016 as a matter of fact we talked about our lives as she knew I was transiitoning and somehow she told me she was starting the transition to be a man. This was super cool for me, and not unexpected. She told me how she felt like a boy as a young child and threw fits about not being one and how she is uncmfortable with her female productive system, ect. Things seemed great, then out of the blue just this February of 2017 she was spouting off about how takin testosterone injections and cutting off body parts is weird and a mental illness, then giving me a lecture about how i just want to fall into societies norms.

I guess my question is, where does the ignorance on both sides of the spectrum come from? Like, we have more in common then not and I love my NB and full Transitioning friends so why do some people feel the need to go and make a divide, or think they are holier then thou?

[warmbody28]

Jealousy, feeling threatened, them being defensive. its scary at times but we learn how to deal with people like that.

[zamber74]

It is probably a coping mechanism.  She probably still wants to be a man, but uses hate as a method to try to drive it out of her mind.  Hate is an extremely powerful emotion, and probably the only thing that works for her.  Let her dwell in her hate, it will eventually consume her, don't let her drag you in.

It is like the extremely homophobic religious folk, that spew how gays are the absolute worst people in the world, only to later be exposed as being gay themselves.

[FTMax]

A lot of people for whom transition is not possible (for whatever reason) get really butt hurt about people that are transitioning. Your old friend is probably jealous that you're able to transition while it didn't work out for her.

As to the larger spectrum question - I absolutely do not understand being NB. But there are a lot of things I can't understand people in the world choosing to identify as, and I can be respectful without understanding someone. Some people find it difficult to show respect to things that are outside of their worldview and were never taught to keep their mouths shut if they don't have anything nice to say. Especially on the internet.

[SailorMars1994]

Thanks for the input everyone. It does make sense how people would get angry or butt hurt. The mentalilty of ''If i cant have it or enjoy it, it doesnt exist''.

And Yes FTMax the NB life can be hard for someone who has experince hard dysphoira their life. I gave it a whirl but found I was only remotley happy when i was leaning/complelety in the female and feminine side and having the prospect of being stuck with a penis still and in this day and age, still be lumped with males in general I couldnt do it. I needed to embrace and go full female. On the other hand, I know of NB's who do take a lower dosage of hormones the associated with birth sex that calms their dysphoira they could be having alot.

Still, there are those who are ''somewhat'' open to gender viarence. As long as you refer to yoruself as your birth sex, dont take opposite birth sex hormones and basically live similar to birth sex. Granted as I said, there are those who have harsh words for NB's and can be dismissive.

My thing is, Jamie Shoupe I thought would have been more of a pioneer. But they talks about the ''evil'' child gender therpsits and has actually said they agree with the likes of TERF's and I kid you not, Walt Heyer. Heyer, who is a poster child of the de-transition movement. Just about every 'regret' story on the web is somehow linked to him or his organization. Heyer, did a full de-transition and became overly religious  and beleives in stirct gender roles. I used to think he was trans still or gay and went into full denial, now I think he probably really is a man. A man who turned out to be an alcoholic and suffering from multiple personalitys (that is to say, he didnt know who he was) and was just a miserable man, who transitioned to a miserable woman and is now back to being a miserable man.

I just dont like seeing people having a ''holier then thou'' attitude becasue like I said, its all the same fight.

[zamber74]

I just dont like seeing people having a ''holier then thou'' attitude becasue like I said, its all the same fight.

You'll see the same patterns throughout all groups of people, I have been fascinated by this my entire life, but can not make sense of it.  People really get attached to their groups, and all of the drama involved, and they love to dictate to others on how to live.  I think, somehow, if we were all the same gender, we all worshiped the same god (or did not believe in any), we all looked exactly alike each other, we would still find something that shouldn't matter to fight about.

You can't make sense of insanity.  In a perfect world, we would simply just love one another, value each other as individuals, give people the freedom to live in the manner that makes them happy.   But we can't have nice things like that, because a lot of people are too involved in trying to dictate how everyone else should live, and their own right to be jerks to other people. 

It is at the point now, that when I try to talk to someone on youtube or yahoo, telling them people should be able to identify themselves as they wish, I am accused of persecuting them, because they have the right to be horrible individuals dictating to others how they identify.  It just makes no sense.  These people are off the rocker, they actually believe they are being persecuted.

There will never be any understanding to it, because they live their lives through hate and fear. 

[OblivionLight]

I much agree with what's been said above. It's likely a coping mechanism as well as jealousy - for some NB people it's really hard to figure out where they stand and what they want to do and change, especially since society is still so gender-focused. Then some of these as well as other trans folks, transitioning often isn't possible, or their surroundings are everything but positive about it, resulting in fear and anger which may cause them to lash out.

They're no excuses of course, and there should just be acceptance amongst all of us - but then, that should exist in the world in general, and it doesn't either. It's sad, for both parties.

As for the NB thing... I'm a demimale, so while I do partially identify as male, I wouldn't say my gender identity is completely binary either. I'm somewhere there, somewhere NOWHERE, and right now I'm trying to figure out what that means for me, what I'd like to achieve in life transition wise etc. It's always a tough road and sometimes things just don't work out which causes frustration in people - and that often outs in an ugly way, unfortunately. I gotta add that I do experience pretty severe dysphoria, though it varies a little with the day. It's an every-day present thing, though.

I also agree that those holier than thou attitudes kind of need to go elsewhere. We're all in a struggle, and any struggle IS a struggle.

[Tommi]

There are crappy people in every subgroup. Having a commonality with them doesn't change that :/

--
"You do realize, this means you get to do character creation & the newbie zone all over again? "

[HoneyStrums]

Why wouldn't they be, Confrontation?

A man hating a woman,
Is the same as a trans hating none trans.
NB having conflict with binery.
Streight having conflict with gay.
Ok im being very polar here, but.

Point is, They are different. And differences clash.

Frends argue with freinds, Because at any given moment, one believes something different. or wants somthing different of feels something different.

NB people are not NB. Trans people are not Trans. They are however people, that may or may not be either or. 
Point is, we are all different, and even if we a more like one then another, that doesnt mean we will always agree.

If your friend was cis would you see the argument under the same light?
Now if the argument was about what film to watch at the cinima, in that instance the line of conflict is a movie. Why when the line is gender identification, something of which we all know causes conflict. Do you wonder why.

Point is all the aforementioned scenarios, are truely thus.

Individual disagrees with individual on subject x

[JoanneB]

I've seen here time and time again "The Rule Book According to ______" Their own interpretation of the path to nirvana. You must do A, B, C, D, E, and F or otherwise Forget About It. You are never going to  find or achieve happiness being trans. Heck, if you wait past the age of 14 now it seems like you are doomed!  (Que the Jurasiac Park the Velociratpers are coming music music for this old dinosaur)

So is it any wonder......

[Lady Sarah]

Being as I live far away from others on the spectrum, I find very little to worry about. If I see it on something like FB, I unfollow, and ignore it. People feel very secure to spout garbage from the safety they feel behind their screens.
When I lived in San Francisco, I always felt I had to be ready for conflict. Sometimes, it got really ugly.