When your aquentiences post Ben Shaprio

[JulieOnHerWay]

Don't let them get you down, I've seen the argument multiple times online, people are holding on to it like it is their anchor, and it really is all they have against us at this point.  It is their go to, whenever they want to try to justify their bigotry, because they believe it is rooted in science.  It is almost certain, that when I watch a video regarding transsexuals or read a news article, the chromosomes argument is brought up frequently. 

It is easy to argue against though, chromosomes do not always define sex. 

I think ultimately, the world is rapidly changing, a lot of these people are terrified of these changes, and grasp on to anything they think they can tear apart to bring back what they are used to.  Gender being a foundation of their world view is not as black and white as they want it to be, and they are having a hard time coming to terms with that.

These people are not going to give up anytime soon, to them, the world is crumbling into utter chaos and they are driven by paranoia and fear.  Any attempt I have made with reasoning with them, often goes down the rabbit hole of insanity, and it becomes apparent just how scared they really are.  They will often argue against the terms homophobia or transphobia, because they claim they are not afraid of us, but that could not be further from the truth, what we represent terrifies them. 

There is a big movement of them on youtube, but eventually I think it will fizzle out, as they slowly get used to their new surroundings, and realize it is not as bad as they used to perceive it.  A lot of them are very paranoid, and prone to believing conspiracies.  Whatever you do, don't get caught up in their current of fear, because it is very easy to get pulled away in it.

Zamber has good point.  If it was solely a chromosomal issue then point out to them that chromosomes mutate.  They change.  They try different possibles for known and unknown reason. Point out that we all have similarities but we are different in some small ways.  That is chromosomes hard at work. So there must be more to the situation than chromosomes.  Like developmental issues,  the way our brains are wired.  Things we have not considered yet that makes them different from transgenders. Also you could point out that any birth defect is similar.  Diabetes?  Do those that have it are they just wrong?  Do diabetics make a choice?  Their chromosomes are the same as the non-diabetic.  So it is not really a disease and they just need to buck it up and stop whinnying.

The conservative christians are slow to accept change.  Take for instance, they railed against freeing the slaves, but now blacks are God's children too, for most of them.  They portent the end of the world when women got the right to vote but most of the women in their congregations freely vote now. They quoted the bible to stop integration, but now it's OK.  I remember when rock and roll was the devils music.  Now they have contemporary services that are as loud as any concert I ever went to.  They have lost the anti-gay crusade so on to "men-in-dresses-out-to-assault-the-helpless-babies" in the ladies room crusade.  Not to be dismissive of our challenges with them, but like a kidney stone this too will pass.  Maybe painfully but it will pass.  And in the mean time they continue to rake in the dough.

[JMJW]

Shapiro mentions a number of statistics that aren't true (40% transgender suicide rate regardless of treatment is the biggest) And the "Fact don't care about your feelings" line.  So he must have no filter at all then. If a gay or trans person was in stealth and Ben Shapiro knew about it, he would publically out the person, cos its "fact" and feelings don't matter. If someone asked Ben Shapiro if they look good or did well, regardless of who it is, Ben Shapiro is always brutally honest, regardless of if the person is a child or disabled. If it's an intersex person, because facts don't care about feelings and it wouldn't be factual to call the person male or female by Ben's own logic of Chromosomes trump all, then  he would refer to them as "The Intersexed". If someone was standing on a bridge and about to kill themselves, Ben Shapiro, the straight shooter that he is, would shoot from the hip and fire back with his trademark brutal honesty. If Ben found Leelah Alcorn on that bridge and had a chance to talk her down, Ben would use the word "He" and call Leelah a boy, cos as he says "facts don't care about your feelings".   

If facts don't care about feelings, why did they change from "Negro" to "African American". It Ben's premise is true, there would be no reason to change, after all, Negro is linguistically closer to Negroid, the biological classification.

[FTMax]

I like Ben Shapiro and agree with him on many things. You're rarely, if ever, going to have complete agreement with anyone in life. If it bothers you to associate with people whose views are significantly different from your own, unfriend them.

I think it would be a mistake though. The whole reason the world was so shocked by this last election cycle is that we're all so caught up in our own micro echo chambers where we only have dialogue with people who believe the same things we do. If you shut out people you don't agree with, you lose the opportunity to present your side.

[Devlyn]

I'm gonna get flamed, but my favourite Ben Shapiro moment was when Zoey Tur (former member here) told him to stop calling her sir or he'd go home in an ambulance. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[zamber74]

I'm gonna get flamed, but my favourite Ben Shapiro moment was when Zoey Tur (former member here) told him to stop calling her sir or he'd go home in an ambulance. 

Hugs, Devlyn

"An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind"

What she did, was reinforce preconceived stereotypes that we are emotionally unstable and delusional.  I don't like Ben Shapiro, I think his arguments were lousy..  such as every cell in Caitlyn's body is male.  Who says that?  Does Shapiro believe that every chromosome has a gender of it's own, a corresponding genitalia?  I would have called him out on that, it was absolutely foolish to say. 

Fight these people at an intellectual level, she should have put aside her own emotions, and use his hate against him.  That is how you win these sorts of debates, he is not rational, he is not skeptical, or logical, he is coming from a place of emotion.  In this context, he is outraged that Caitlyn changed gender.  Use it against him, rather than be drawn into it.   

[SailorMars1994]

I like Ben Shapiro and agree with him on many things. You're rarely, if ever, going to have complete agreement with anyone in life. If it bothers you to associate with people whose views are significantly different from your own, unfriend them.

I think it would be a mistake though. The whole reason the world was so shocked by this last election cycle is that we're all so caught up in our own micro echo chambers where we only have dialogue with people who believe the same things we do. If you shut out people you don't agree with, you lose the opportunity to present your side.

You liking Ben Shapiro is your thing. I am unsure what he says in general that isnt right wing spin one way or the other but then again i havent looked at everything he has done.

I have little issue about disagreeing on certian things. We dont have to agree on abortion or weather we should all be legalizing a plant that has more benefits then not. I can see where some people draw their opposing opinions. But at the same time not all views are equal. Sometimes, it may seem harsh but it is true, one view is more right then the other. Its just people set in their ways that dont want to change. Its like saying that evolution and young earth creationism are equal. They are not, and shouldnt be held as if they are the same playing field. One (evolution) is a theory, the other (young earth creationism) is a claim.  Or like saying the climate change is just a theory, when in fact it has been happening. Now, it can be debated how best to cope and deal with it. But then you got some people who just want to go into denial that it is happening. For example who are we best to beleive, 95% + scientists or Senator James Inhofe who is backed by oil and gas, who says the earth cant be getting warming and then throws snow balls in the Senate chamber to prove his. Again, childish ideas and childish responses from people who are so opposed to being open minded. It also isnt a shocker to see that people like Inhofe and Shapiro have very much the same mind-set on nearly every thing in society. The same goes with gender and sexuality. We are at this stage of life that we understand not everything or everone is black and white one way or the other.  We realize that some people are born in the wrong bodies, the some peoples gender and sexuality may even be a bit fluid and the rest. We realize these days that there is more to life then just everything we have been told largley by parents and society and more importantly, a guy with a microphone. I beleive, looking at my history i was born in the wrong body. And there is reasoning from real scientists and psycologists to back me up, as opposed to some-one with old school opinions to lazy to look at the other side becasue that would admit they were wrong (Rush Limbaugh, Ben Shapiro, ect). When it comes to gender they would say '' if you have a penis you are male... ok get that gone... ok you look, sound, act and function like a woman with a vagina... er lets see now, how can we spin this.. ah-ha, your Y chromosomes.. thats what makes you not a woman.. yada yada yada''. So assuming that science advances and I could get XX chromosmes as I alwasy should and lets throw in a working uterus their responces would turn into ''you were born a boy, so i dont care if everything about you is female''. As I said, these people dont want to change their wrongess, they just want to find where they can look somewhat smart.

I have no problem disagreeing with people if they are a real reason to have these beleifs. Not just because they are too lazy to think outside of the box they are in. And I espeically wont pretend to give someone an equal ground of ideas if their ideas put who i am and how i live into questions. I am a woman, not a side show is all i am saying.

Hugs-Ashley

[SailorMars1994]

"An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind"

What she did, was reinforce preconceived stereotypes that we are emotionally unstable and delusional.  I don't like Ben Shapiro, I think his arguments were lousy..  such as every cell in Caitlyn's body is male.  Who says that?  Does Shapiro believe that every chromosome has a gender of it's own, a corresponding genitalia?  I would have called him out on that, it was absolutely foolish to say. 

Fight these people at an intellectual level, she should have put aside her own emotions, and use his hate against him.  That is how you win these sorts of debates, he is not rational, he is not skeptical, or logical, he is coming from a place of emotion.  In this context, he is outraged that Caitlyn changed gender.  Use it against him, rather than be drawn into it.

You raised good points but I disagree slightly with your first about and delusional and unstable. She should have used wit and used her brain power to over take his tiny mind. But lets not forget the far right in America are bullys. Shapiro fan base probably looked at Tur as emotinally unstable and critize her for anything, ect.. but then they would happily elected some man who beats up reporters for merely asking him questions as all the people in the press do and as i said, elected his  as Montanas Congressman.

[JMJW]

Afterward, Ben Shapiro said that he regretted that he missed the opportunity to say "That's not very ladylike" on air, in response.

There isn't really a good excuse as Ben Shapiro isn't someone who sprang up overnight, Zoey Tur should have researched him a bit and thus expected him to do that and have a response prepared.   

When a ciswoman loses it they say "Typical hysterical woman"
If a transwoman flies off the handle, they say "Typical aggressive man". 

[Jessica Lynne]

We've dedicated thousands of text characters here on a tiny little man who makes his living off feeding the trolls with vile anger and ignorant hatred, all disguised as as intellectual prowess. Trollboy is a complete and total enigma to me and hardly  worthy of my consideration. He "is" what the expession "Don't feed the trolls" was penned for. I can see right wing hater forums talking about this piece of feces in a suit, but why are we? Why do we let filth like this rent space in our heads?

[SailorMars1994]

We've dedicated thousands of text characters here on a tiny little man who makes his living off feeding the trolls with vile anger and ignorant hatred, all disguised as as intellectual prowess. Trollboy is a complete and total enigma to me and hardly  worthy of my consideration. He "is" what the expession "Don't feed the trolls" was penned for. I can see right wing hater forums talking about this piece of feces in a suit, but why are we? Why do we let filth like this rent space in our heads?

You're right. I guess this transpired.  But this is the thing that has gotten me rilled up. In 2007, there was no such thing as a troll. They were called another name, sadist.  Back before the elections of Obama and Trump, before facebook truly hit off and before people in power started to pander to a specific group (cough cough ) to demonize the other side there was never a time when people proudly admitted to being ignorant.  It isnt just Shapiro, there is a new and bizarre trend that the ''unpopular'' (and high counter factual) opinion should be heard. Years ago when scientists said something was happening, and there was a consensus,  politicians didnt pander to the stubborn ignorant people. The government would work on, and debate on how to fix the situation. Now, people just debate what is factually there.

Back to the troll/sadist thing it is true, and more specifcally on the right.  People like Shapiro and his supporters who get off on provoking other people having an adult conversation. Its not just this trans things, its like health care. Their health care plan is ''lazy moochers, you want health care try getting a job''... to a single mother working 40 hours and not even getting 10$ an hour. People on the right want to abolish the EPA, along time ago the right (Nixon) faught agaisnt people drinking led-water, now the alt-right is fine with it as long as it makes Al Gore cry. Or just like how you have people out there intentionally modifying their trucks to produce more air polution. The American right is not the American lefts opposition , they are their crazy ex-girlfriend. Their only job these days is to make leftys freak and troll them. Like taking ak-47s to mcdonalds, taking a snow ball into congress or having the president tweet that their is a ban on trans people in the military. Trump doesnt care who serves in the military as long as it isnt him. There is no reasoning behind it other to see the heads of the non-right explode. Even Sarah Palin summed up the rights purpose last year when she said of liberals ''Its really funny to see their splody heads keep sploding''. Again, they have no facts to back their case up they just want to troll us. They do something wrong or say somethign wrong and they call us snowflakes. Basically they do whatever they can to try and make liberals or even moderates tear up.  I only had to dig about Ben Shaprio more when we had a member here say they like them and agree with them.

But I get your point Jessica. You are always a voice of reason <3

[SailorMars1994]

Afterward, Ben Shapiro said that he regretted that he missed the opportunity to say "That's not very ladylike" on air, in response.

There isn't really a good excuse as Ben Shapiro isn't someone who sprang up overnight, Zoey Tur should have researched him a bit and thus expected him to do that and have a response prepared.   

When a ciswoman loses it they say "Typical hysterical woman"
If a transwoman flies off the handle, they say "Typical aggressive man".

There is only one reason Ben didnt say that. Fear. He was stunned that someone had called him out to such a extreme extent. Ben froze as most bullies/cowards do when they get into a situation they know they cant win. Again, see my post just above his mid set isnt some conservative or traditional mind set. It is just him wanting to troll people.

Coward is all he is. Also sexist, since when should a woman ever have to put up with that non-sense.

[Gertrude]

I like Ben Shapiro and agree with him on many things. You're rarely, if ever, going to have complete agreement with anyone in life. If it bothers you to associate with people whose views are significantly different from your own, unfriend them.

I think it would be a mistake though. The whole reason the world was so shocked by this last election cycle is that we're all so caught up in our own micro echo chambers where we only have dialogue with people who believe the same things we do. If you shut out people you don't agree with, you lose the opportunity to present your side.

I tend to agree with you, but if someone views you as someone with a psychiatric issue and something we're born with, it's not going to work. It's not question of plain disagreement, but of who we are. There has to be respect, and I have to wonder if someone like Shapiro are capable of it. It's a case by case thing, but you'd have to ask yourself, why would I associate with someone that doesn't respect or like me?


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[Gertrude]

"An Eye for an Eye Will Make the Whole World Blind"

What she did, was reinforce preconceived stereotypes that we are emotionally unstable and delusional.  I don't like Ben Shapiro, I think his arguments were lousy..  such as every cell in Caitlyn's body is male.  Who says that?  Does Shapiro believe that every chromosome has a gender of it's own, a corresponding genitalia?  I would have called him out on that, it was absolutely foolish to say. 

Fight these people at an intellectual level, she should have put aside her own emotions, and use his hate against him.  That is how you win these sorts of debates, he is not rational, he is not skeptical, or logical, he is coming from a place of emotion.  In this context, he is outraged that Caitlyn changed gender.  Use it against him, rather than be drawn into it.

You can't have a logical argument with someone that has fundamentalist beliefs. You're not going to change their mind. It's just an exercise in frustration.


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[Gertrude]

There is only one reason Ben didnt say that. Fear. He was stunned that someone had called him out to such a extreme extent. Ben froze as most bullies/cowards do when they get into a situation they know they cant win. Again, see my post just above his mid set isnt some conservative or traditional mind set. It is just him wanting to troll people.

Coward is all he is. Also sexist, since when should a woman ever have to put up with that non-sense.

People with fundamentalist beliefs need a world of certainty. It's a tribal thing. What's over the hill from what and who I know is dangerous. Being open to all the possibilities in the universe is too much for them to process and feel secure about the moment and the future. Being human, they seek to reinforce this through association with others like themselves and to attack what's different. It's not about convincing those that are different, but about convincing themselves. Someone that knows has no reason to jump in the pit with anyone.


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[zamber74]

You can't have a logical argument with someone that has fundamentalist beliefs. You're not going to change their mind. It's just an exercise in frustration.


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It is not their mind we need to change, it is everyone they are trying to recruit for their cause.  People like Shapiro are trying to manipulate a reaction out of people like us, so that we look like we are the violent ones.  I have seen a trend like this, several times over, and I really wish people on the left would pick up on it.

If you watch what he is doing, he is going out of his way to elicit a reaction.  He calls Zoey sir, he does so because he knows it is going to get a reaction out of her.  He knows that she is eventually going to cave in and act out, and that is what he wants.  He wants her to get aggressive, he wants her to appear to be dangerous.

Read the comments of the multiple instances of the uploaded video, and you can see several instances of people making comments about how we are aggressive, and have nothing to stand on.  It is disheartening. 

If we instead, hold them up to their claims, argue with evidence,  they have nothing to stand on other than their own hatred.  People who see that, will not want anything to do with them.  Also, no one should allow themselves to be manipulated like that in the first place, it is giving other people far too much control. 

This has been their standard approach as of late, do something insulting to a minority, pander to the majority that it is not insulting to, say it is "just the truth" (even though it often is not, it is an opinion) and then show the majority that the response given by those they are manipulating was completely unjustified, and then the manipulating jerks play the victim, and they pretend they are being oppressed.

People fall for it all of the time.

[Jessica Lynne]

It is not their mind we need to change, it is everyone they are trying to recruit for their cause.  People like Shapiro are trying to manipulate a reaction out of people like us, so that we look like we are the violent ones.  I have seen a trend like this, several times over, and I really wish people on the left would pick up on it.

If you watch what he is doing, he is going out of his way to elicit a reaction.  He calls Zoey sir, he does so because he knows it is going to get a reaction out of her.  He knows that she is eventually going to cave in and act out, and that is what he wants.  He wants her to get aggressive, he wants her to appear to be dangerous.

Read the comments of the multiple instances of the uploaded video, and you can see several instances of people making comments about how we are aggressive, and have nothing to stand on.  It is disheartening. 

If we instead, hold them up to their claims, argue with evidence,  they have nothing to stand on other than their own hatred.  People who see that, will not want anything to do with them.  Also, no one should allow themselves to be manipulated like that in the first place, it is giving other people far too much control. 

This has been their standard approach as of late, do something insulting to a minority, pander to the majority that it is not insulting to, say it is "just the truth" (even though it often is not, it is an opinion) and then show the majority that the response given by those they are manipulating was completely unjustified, and then the manipulating jerks play the victim, and they pretend they are being oppressed.

People fall for it all of the time.

Weeeeeeeellllllllll.....I'm gonna disagree with you a little here. I don't necessarily think laying down a pacifistic gauntlet in the face of mass douchery is the tact that is needed. The Jews decided that if they laid low and didnt incite Hitler that he would get bored and go way. Yeah, that worked out real well. Although I'm not a big Zoey fan (mostly for her preachy nature when she doesn't know what she's talking about) in this instance, I'm gonna give her a pass. Shapiro is a provocateur and his ilk would have felt old Zoey got owned if she hadn't of said something. Once she did, the troll backed off because he's a weasel and a coward. Zoey's  threat showed him for what he is and "HE" ended up the one that got owned. His ilk need to know that simply because we're women, were not shrinking violets. I like the, "don't trifle with me little man or you'll be staring at the ceiling" attitude. Those people that are on our side, are already on our side. The others? The opportunistic thugs? They need to know there could be consequences to their actions. So play with me at your peril, troll boy,  roll the bones and see what happens. Because the one that's thinking like Shapiro is going to do what he does, regardless. You're being a demure lady won't influence him. But the thought of having his ass kicked by some ->-bleeped-<- in front of his goofy friends?  Well that just may. The reality is, you're opinion of me is none of my business, so keep it to yourself

[Gertrude]

It is not their mind we need to change, it is everyone they are trying to recruit for their cause.  People like Shapiro are trying to manipulate a reaction out of people like us, so that we look like we are the violent ones.  I have seen a trend like this, several times over, and I really wish people on the left would pick up on it.

If you watch what he is doing, he is going out of his way to elicit a reaction.  He calls Zoey sir, he does so because he knows it is going to get a reaction out of her.  He knows that she is eventually going to cave in and act out, and that is what he wants.  He wants her to get aggressive, he wants her to appear to be dangerous.

Read the comments of the multiple instances of the uploaded video, and you can see several instances of people making comments about how we are aggressive, and have nothing to stand on.  It is disheartening. 

If we instead, hold them up to their claims, argue with evidence,  they have nothing to stand on other than their own hatred.  People who see that, will not want anything to do with them.  Also, no one should allow themselves to be manipulated like that in the first place, it is giving other people far too much control. 

This has been their standard approach as of late, do something insulting to a minority, pander to the majority that it is not insulting to, say it is "just the truth" (even though it often is not, it is an opinion) and then show the majority that the response given by those they are manipulating was completely unjustified, and then the manipulating jerks play the victim, and they pretend they are being oppressed.

People fall for it all of the time.

Still the same thing. Most people that Resa had adulthood have their own beliefs and either they agree with Shapiro or they don't. The best we can do is to come out and increase our visible numbers. Over time, it'll become more normal, like we see with the l and g. The best way of getting them to come around over time is infection. When most people know someone that is trans, things will change. Yelling at people about privilege and politics (right v left propaganda) won't do much and nothing constructive. Jennifer Finney Boylan said that people can't hate you when they know your story. Let's start there.


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[Gertrude]

Weeeeeeeellllllllll.....I'm gonna disagree with you a little here. I don't necessarily think laying down a pacifistic gauntlet in the face of mass douchery is the tact that is needed. The Jews decided that if they laid low and didnt incite Hitler that he would get bored and go way. Yeah, that worked out real well. Although I'm not a big Zoey fan (mostly for her preachy nature when she doesn't know what she's talking about) in this instance, I'm gonna give her a pass. Shapiro is a provocateur and his ilk would have felt old Zoey got owned if she hadn't of said something. Once she did, the troll backed off because he's a weasel and a coward. Zoey's  threat showed him for what he is and "HE" ended up the one that got owned. His ilk need to know that simply because we're women, were not shrinking violets. I like the, "don't trifle with me little man or you'll be staring at the ceiling" attitude. Those people that are on our side, are already on our side. The others? The opportunistic thugs? They need to know there could be consequences to their actions. So play with me at your peril, troll boy,  roll the bones and see what happens. Because the one that's thinking like Shapiro is going to do what he does, regardless. You're being a demure lady won't influence him. But the thought of having his ass kicked by some ->-bleeped-<- in front of his goofy friends?  Well that just may. The reality is, you're opinion of me is none of my business, so keep it to yourself

It's easy to fall into fighting the trolls digitally. It's futile though. In person, it's a different deal. One of my high school teachers said I have a 5'2 Sicilian locked away in my 6'5 body and if someone lays a hand on me, he gets turned loose. Luckily, I get left alone. I don't think Shapiro would physically confront someone. He's not that type. I would worry more about red neck types and other mouth breathers that are basically stupid. There are ways to deal with them too if they come knocking.


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[Jessica Lynne]

It's easy to fall into fighting the trolls digitally. It's futile though. In person, it's a different deal. One of my high school teachers said I have a 5'2 Sicilian locked away in my 6'5 body and if someone lays a hand on me, he gets turned loose. Luckily, I get left alone. I don't think Shapiro would physically confront someone. He's not that type. I would worry more about red neck types and other mouth breathers that are basically stupid. There are ways to deal with them too if they come knocking.


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I do agree to some extent, Gertrude. But the sad reality is, trolls like Shapiro embolden other nbred reprobates to act out their stupidity. The reality is, each situation calls for it's own remedy. Of course, a peacful remedy is the sentient answer, but not always an option. And of course Shapiro wouldn't get physical, he's little more than a big mouth with feet. My concern is that always playing Ghandi gives the hating cowards carte blanche. People like Zoey at least make them think twice. And I use the word "think" with toungue in cheek".

[Dena]

Ben decided to make it a battle of words. As I am sure after looking at her history, Zoey should have had equal or better skill in this area and limited the battle to that. Much like the clip out of the movie Hook.