Going Full Time? Am I passable?

[elkie-t]

Hi Echo7. Spot on (I am not sure this is a wig, but I'll take your word on it). Shoulders look bigger than butt, knees look too sharp for a female. Also agree with your assessment on a skirt covering those knees and that HRT will take care of other issues in time. Still, your assessment shows what a very observant person will see vs a casual untrained one in the sense of 'yeah, pass' crowd. And pretty is better than passable imo


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[JulieOnHerWay]

I hate having to edit my opinion.

Littlewitchgirl live your life as you want.  There will be those who pick the nicks.

[Ritana]

 
Sorry, it was late when I typed my comment, and I didn't provide any explanation. I agree that any feedback should ideally be constructive and helpful. Having said that, I note that some people don't seem.to think there should be a requirement to provide an explanation/ reasons behind a positive feedback. Saying "you pass" isn't necessarily helpful either.

First, I find the OP very smart and pretty in her pictures. However, based on the same pictures, I don't find her passable for the following reasons:

Forehead: slightly too big for a woman, may need work.
prominent brow ridge: very indicative of a male feature. I have met very few women with  prominent brow ridge. However, the rest of their other feminine facial features usually  compensate well for this and avoid them having a trans look.

Thick masculine eyebrows: Same reasoning as brow ridge.

Shoulders: too large for a woman and not proportionate to hips.

Like others said hrt may bring some improvements; however, the ultimate test of passability remains public reaction (not that I personaly think you need public validation). Pictures can only show so much.

Going full time can be a very scary experience. Be strong, positive and confident hun. This helps a lot!

Best of luck!

Ritana

[Natalia]

Girl,

You are ten times prettier than I am. I wish I had 1/10 of your beauty! You have a slim feminine body and your face, although having some minor masculine angles, looks completely feminine to me.

Let's remember that a lot of cis women out there have masculine features on their faces and they are not read as males because of that. I have a friend that have a very squared jaw... and she is also gorgeous and no one would read her as nothing else than a woman.

What I really can't understand is people here judging you about MINOR masculine features... of course we all have some masculine features, but yours, overall, seems to be underwhelmed by your beauty and feminine features.

Before someone starts bashing me saying that I couldn't know about passability... I live full time since 2014 and I live stealth. On those 3 years I was NEVER spotted and all my cis friends treat me as just another cis girl. The other day they were even asking me about my menstrual cycle!

So, I know a bit about passability!

And I must say that passability is not just about your looks... height, presentation, voice and mannerisms are also VERY important. If you have a feminine voice and feminine mannerisms, I am quite sure you should pass. Some minor masculine features won't stop you from passing if your voice and manerisms are in conformation with your gender.

But the only way to really know is to live full time. Judging by your look, I am quite sure you must already be living full time. Your experience will tell you if you pass. If you can live stealth... well, you pass.

Perhaps we, transgender individuals, are more prone to spot other trans people among the crowd... we are expert at detecting masculine features on others because we are always trying to hide ours... that's why some people here are saying you don't pass, because they are so focused on masculine features that they became blind on the rest... when they look at you the only thing they can see are masculine features.

And sometimes... I don't know why... it seems that some of us feels the need to feel superior to others by bashing extremely beauty and passable girls... perhaps this way they can feel superior and good with themselves...

[Artesia]

But ok, since you are all attacking me for being so "unhelpful" and "unsupportive", when IMO it is you all who are doing so by falsely giving hope to someone who is not actually passable, here is my honest, detailed opinion on why she does not pass:

The main thing I notice is that the hair looks fake.  It is better to go with a pixie cut than to wear a wig.  For older trans people who may have no choice but to wear a wig, it is worth spending multiple hundreds of dollars to buy one that looks real.  The worst thing you can do is to buy a cheap wig. 

In the full-body shot where she is holding the blue vodka bottle, you can see that her shoulders are too broad in relation to her legs.  Her legs are way too skinny for her frame.  That also is a pretty big giveaway.  In the final picture, where she is sitting between 2 cis women, you can see just how skinny her thighs are and how much it makes her stand out.  More time on HRT will cause more fat to be deposited in her thighs and she'll be closer to having a feminine silhouette.  So it's just a matter of time.  Again, 3 months on HRT is not enough to be passable.  The changes happen slowly and takes a lot of time; it's not magic and it doesn't happen in a few months.  In the meantime, wearing A-Line skirts and empire waist dresses would be more beneficial rather than super-short bodycon dresses which work against her body type.

I am going to avoid nitpicking on facial features because that is a sensitive topic on a public forum.  If the OP would like my opinion on facial features, she can message me privately.

Sorry, it was late when I typed my comment, and I didn't provide any explanation. I agree that any feedback should ideally be constructive and helpful. Having said that, I note that some people don't seem.to think there should be a requirement to provide an explanation/ reasons behind a positive feedback. Saying "you pass" isn't necessarily helpful either.

First, I find the OP very smart and pretty in her pictures. However, based on the same pictures, I don't find her passable for the following reasons:

Forehead: slightly too big for a woman, may need work.
prominent brow ridge: very indicative of a male feature. I have met very few women with  prominent brow ridge. However, the rest of their other feminine facial features usually  compensate well for this and avoid them having a trans look.

Thick masculine eyebrows: Same reasoning as brow ridge.

Shoulders: too large for a woman and not proportionate to hips.

Like others said hrt may bring some improvements; however, the ultimate test of passability remains public reaction (not that I personaly think you need public validation). Pictures can only show so much.

Going full time can be a very scary experience. Be strong, positive and confident hun. This helps a lot!

Best of luck!

Ritana

Thank you for explaining it.  I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you, Echo, sometimes I mince words to not be exactly what I want.  I was just curious how you lades could tell with just these pictures.

The broad shoulders and no hips is a problem that I have as well.  Hopefully weight change will fix that for me.  However, that didn't stop me from passing my first time in public.  I was not, however, the focus of their attention which was more on the Boulder Fest(I think that was the name) in Boulder CO a couple months ago.  I think if she were out and about, no one would really notice as they went on about their lives.

The thick eye brows is something my Therapist has so I would have never seen that as a barrier to passing.

[Jacqueline]

  Topic locked briefly 

the topic seems to be taking a turn for the better. Cooling off and becoming constructive in criticism. This is good and I will unlock this. However, two things will happen first. I am going to edit out some parts of posts that seem inflammatory; I am grabbing my bullhorn and climbing on a soapbox(not again, yup, again)...

At the risk of sounding like a parent I am a little disappointed in how this thread progressed after at least two minor attempts to cool it off and steer it correctly. As Michelle mentioned, this is a site for support. Sometimes that does require tough love. Criticism should be constructive and helpful in nature.

I will remind you all of some of the site's Terms of Service. If you are not sure, stop posting, open a tab with them and read them again. Here is some text lifted directly from them:

5. The posting of messages on the chat or forums which are of a threatening tone; intended solely to communicate sarcasm, contempt, or derision; are intended to belittle or ridicule a person or group; to disgust the viewer; contain obscene or pornographic materials; which are intended to titillate; or which depicts/promotes illegal acts; will not be permitted.


10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

    Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.
    Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others.
    Suggesting that Trans people are not really men (FTM) or women (MTF).
    Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

15. Items under discussion shall be confined to the subject matter at hand. Members shall avoid taking the other users posts personally, and/or posting anything that can reasonably be construed as a personal attack.

I have put text in bold to identify what I think has been violated in this topic to this point.

I am sure the topic will continue in the direction it is currently headed. Calm, clear, concise.

Thank you

(I have never felt like an older nun with a ruler before but I guess there is a first time for everything.)

Sincerely,

Jacqueline

[Devlyn]

I've never had my knuckles just start stinging out of the blue before, that's damn strange. OWWW! Now there's shooting pain in them!     

Hugs, Devlyn

[Jacqueline]

I am a little out of breath but calming down and climbing off my soap box again(everyone sighs relief).

I did not pull everything that could be an insult. I did pull some that might not be a true insult. I too am only human. However, I think if we all proceed in the way the topic has veered, we will all be fine.

Thanks again for bringing us back to calm and positive.

Let's just remember that even being brutally honest, doesn't have to be brutal.

Pulling down the police Tape. Move along, there's nothing to see.


Thanks,

Jacqui

[Charlie Nicki]

Still, your assessment shows what a very observant person will see vs a casual untrained one in the sense of 'yeah, pass' crowd.

That makes me think, would a cis person really be this observant? I honestly think some of the girls can be extremely detail oriented due to their own experience...But it doesn't mean that everyone will be as sharp to "clock" her. I genuinely think she looks super passable and wasn't saying it just to make her feel better, nor do I think all women in the world have thick thighs and round knees lol. She'll be fine.

[Kendra]

The bottle of Skyy Vodka.  The curve below the neck doesn't precisely match other brands of vodka I have seen in music videos and ads in Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition. 

Based on some things I have read in this thread the Mona Lisa is not passable.

Heck yeah you are passable!  We all are, if we choose to define it our way.  Passing starts from within. 

[ds1987]

OH MY GOD! You are gorgeous! I am actually jealous, tbh. Never feel you need to doubt yourself, girl


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[Wednesday]

First and foremost I have to point out that you actually look REALLY GOOD in a purely aesthetic sense. You have this modelesque look that some ciswomen have and many many ciswomen would kill for (and trust me, I'm not humoring you).

Second, your makeup skills look pretty nice and seems like you have quite a sense of fashion; so definitely you're doing right in these departments.

But if you ask me, with respect to passing, I would say that you're almost there, really close. I have to note that 3 months HRT is way too little time to see significant changes. I think that (and I'm being quite realistic) after 1 year (maybe more, maybe less) you wouldn't have much problem passing (appearance wise).

What I think that may give you away? Not that much your brow ridge (forehead) but a slight lack of softness in your face features overall (and this may be fixed giving more time to HRT to work). Your forehead height (overall size) looks fine, your nose looks fine, your jaw looks fine (maybe on the wide side, but still balanced).

Tips? Maybe your cheeks look a little hollow/flat. You could benefit from added fullness (hialuronic acid injections, cheek implants and more time on hormones): this would give wideness to your middle face, roundness overall, and help balance. Also dermal fillers in other face areas may give softeness.

Keep in mind you're really thin, so you should expect to be on the more chiseled side of beauty/style. I'm not advicing you to gain weight, though a few lbs may help too (or may not). Also having a nice voice may be a deal closer in your case.

In conclusion, be patient. You're just starting HRT, so it's so soon to make proper judgements If you want to go full-time I think it wouldn't a crazy idea, you look rather fine and you always can wear androgynous-style outfits.

[Lady Lisandra]

I wouldn't have been able to tell you're trans from the photos had you no said it. You totally pass, and you look beautiful. Go for it!

[Lara]

Are You kidding ?
3 MONTHS of hrt and you look like that ? :/
Have you had work done ?
I would have never guessed if you hadn't told. :|

[Julia1996]

In my opinion you are 100% passable and very pretty. Your eyebrows look great to me and your makeup is on point. As for your wig it looks great. I cut hair and I can clock a wig a mile away but I wouldn't have clocked yours. As for your shoulder hip measurements or whatever it's supposed to be, your body looks totally female to me. I really like doubt anyone is going to whip out a tape measure and compare your hips to your shoulders. You look great. You will only look better the longer you are on hrt.

I read all the posts on this thread. If you are going to post pictures here and ask for honest opinions expect more criticism than you would get from cis people. As transwomen we totally obsess over all the ways we can get outed. Because of that we try to spot any little thing that could potentially get us clocked.  Cis people don't usually look that hard. I had someone here tell me I'm not passable.  Ok, that's her opinion. I pass 99% of the time. So I'm not going to worry about it. Really the only people who can tell you for sure if you pass are the people you interact with in daily life.
Julia

[amandam]

i think u r very pretty. I agree that at times, u may get clocked, but not all the time. Hormones may make u stealth. You r very close to 100% woman. So, what was your number? 

[LilyMelody]

100% passable and looking very lovely too.