Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

Your relationship with your breasts

Started by Nero, December 02, 2007, 10:10:02 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nero

Good Sunday morning guys and dolls.

I've always had a love/hate relationship withy my breasts. I hate them because I'm not female. And yet...
they are gorgeous.
I hate them so much I shower in my underwear.
Yet whenever I had my shirt off with a partner, I became this sexy woman whose partner was enjoying the beauty of my breasts. If my shirt was on, I was myself during sex. If it was off, I was transformed into a beautiful seductress.
And yes, they make me feel beautiful. But... I am not a woman. So they are incongruent and I hate them. I want to take a knife and slice them to pieces, whether I survive or not.

What is your relationship to your breasts? How do you feel about them?

I want to hear from everybody - men and women, androgynes - anyone who has ever had breasts or wanted them.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

Michelle F

Hey Nero,

I feel for the pain you are experiencing about your breasts. And I have felt some of the same things you feel.

I sometimes wish we could just be people, not males or females, but we have these pronouns in our language that carry a ton of expectations and privleges and duties with them.

So what happens when a person has certain pronouns/expectations/and privleges assingned to them and their bodies do not match up with their pronouns? Even worse, their minds don't always/completely match up with the pronouns?

It's more than a love/hate relationship with yourself. It is an existence of seeing others who for some reason had "the right genetics" get to take off their shirt at the pool when you sit there in the sun with a stupid heavy shirt on sweating like a dog. It is watching girls wear their bikinis at the pool and knowing that you look as good as they do but if you wear that article of clothing you will be put squarely on someones "nut radar".

You don't know what to do because you mostly have the body of a woman, but your face is too male to just don women's clothes and go out as a female.

Perhaps worst of all when you go out in public trying to conceal things, and live in the role you were assigned, ( i.e, be a good boy like everyone expects) you can get "slammed anyway", people can pick up on the fact that you are insecure and hiding things and some misinterpret that you are taking hormones to prepare for a sex change. As I have made very clear in other posts, I totally respect a transpersons right to become what makes them happy. But there is no comparison at all between a person who was completely male/female, changing their bodies by will and a person who was never really male/female just trying to cope with the mess of it all. It isn't fair for people to call someone like me trans when I didn't alter my body in any way, and any changes I make are just an attempt to figure out  whether I am a man or a woman. In my opinion everyone should be left alone, but transpeople are willing to take a little pain if they need to, to reach their goal. On the other hand I had no choice in the matter at all, but suffer the same retributions that a transperson goes through, though I didn't go down this path willingly. Yah, I understand your pain, it's enough to make you wanna blow your own friggin head off.

There are a LOT of really nice people out there, but when things go wrong;

Men see me as someone who isn't trying to be manly and punish me to the fullest extent of the "male codes", ie marginalization. I was completely ignored by someone who I see regularly, just yesterday. It was a cold day and he came into the theatre where my kids were performing and I saw him and said "get out of the cold dude". He completely ignored me, didn't look at me, but talked to the next guy sitting 10 feet away from me. It's like I am invisible, and not human because I am different.   

On the other hand if you attempt to be one of the girls, you are percieved as an interloper on their gender and an intruder. I have tried to make friends with  the gals, but even though I have the same hormones that they do running through my veins, acting on the same target tissues as they do, I will never be one of them in some of their eyes.

People who don't have these hormonal problems go through life with this badge of courage for their big breasts (women) or deep voices and cut bodies (men) like they did something special

In reality, they are nothing but individuals who were fortunate enough to have the hormones in their bodies match up with the social role they were assigned to. In return, someone who will never fit in without surgery and taking medication for the rest of my life to "appear normal", gets incorrectly branded as a "transperson", a weirdo, or a defect. Again, the branding is done by people who did nothing to look normal, just as I have done nothing to look "different"

Is it these realities that cause you so much pain? It is for me.

Please first and foremost consider yourself HUMAN, and realize that there is a responsibility/gift placed on you that most people don't have to deal with. That is the responsability of deciding whether you will be male or female (and I am assuming here that you are intersexed because you answered me in another post from that forum) Most people just come out as one or another, but some of of actually have to decide which one we are.

I pray for your peace of mind because as I said I understand the conflict.

M

Again, I have NO ill feelings about transpeople, in fact I understand your pain of transition, I DO have ill feeling about being misunderstood and mislabled. I totally respect anyone who is willing to take responsibility for the way they feel and then pay the price whatever it may be to find happiness. Hope that's clear to my ts sisters and brothers.

  •  

RebeccaFog

Hi Nero,

     I'm sorry.  I don't have breasts.  I used to have times when I felt like I was missing them because I felt female, but now I'm not so confused anymore.  I realize that if I had been born a female gender variant, then I would not want them.  I guess being born cisgendered, they'd be okay, but I don't think I want to be cisgendered.  I like me being a gender variant.

     No breasts = okay for me.

    You know what's messed up, though?  Now that I am educated in Gender Issues, I don't like looking at other people's breasts so much even though they really look good on some people.  But, sometimes I wonder if the person might be gender variant.  If the person is not happy with their gender, then the breasts take on a meaning other than "Those are nice".  It's like I can't enjoy them because I understand what a burden they may be for the person who has them.
    For example, if we ever met and you hadn't gone through treatment, I would know what the breasts mean to you and so they would bother me too.


Rebis
  •  

Rachael

aside from going into trans stuff... ive had breasts of some form since my early teens, from bee stings to thier current perky beauty. im really proud of mine, they make me feel pretty, and mature, and good about myself.
i greatly dislike them when i go jogging...
they are an attractive feature, which attracts boys, which makes me happy.
they annoy me when i bump them, but i feel sexy just having them on my chest, i see them as something decidedly girly, with relation to me. as female a symbol as any. and aside from thier impracticality. they empower and give me confidence in my self image :)
R :police:
  •  

Nero

Hi Michelle.

No, I'm not intersexed. But I understand it would be very hard to be born with an incongruent body. I am sorry for your pain.






Quote from: Michelle F on December 02, 2007, 10:49:50 AM
Hey Nero,

I feel for the pain you are experiencing about your breasts. And I have felt some of the same things you feel.

I sometimes wish we could just be people, not males or females, but we have these pronouns in our language that carry a ton of expectations and privleges and duties with them.

So what happens when a person has certain pronouns/expectations/and privleges assingned to them and their bodies do not match up with their pronouns? Even worse, their minds don't always/completely match up with the pronouns?

It's more than a love/hate relationship with yourself. It is an existence of seeing others who for some reason had "the right genetics" get to take off their shirt at the pool when you sit there in the sun with a stupid heavy shirt on sweating like a dog. It is watching girls wear their bikinis at the pool and knowing that you look as good as they do but if you wear that article of clothing you will be put squarely on someones "nut radar".

You don't know what to do because you mostly have the body of a woman, but your face is too male to just don women's clothes and go out as a female.

Perhaps worst of all when you go out in public trying to conceal things, and live in the role you were assigned, ( i.e, be a good boy like everyone expects) you can get "slammed anyway", people can pick up on the fact that you are insecure and hiding things and some misinterpret that you are taking hormones to prepare for a sex change. As I have made very clear in other posts, I totally respect a transpersons right to become what makes them happy. But there is no comparison at all between a person who was completely male/female, changing their bodies by will and a person who was never really male/female just trying to cope with the mess of it all. It isn't fair for people to call someone like me trans when I didn't alter my body in any way, and any changes I make are just an attempt to figure out  whether I am a man or a woman. In my opinion everyone should be left alone, but transpeople are willing to take a little pain if they need to, to reach their goal. On the other hand I had no choice in the matter at all, but suffer the same retributions that a transperson goes through, though I didn't go down this path willingly. Yah, I understand your pain, it's enough to make you wanna blow your own friggin head off.

There are a LOT of really nice people out there, but when things go wrong;

Men see me as someone who isn't trying to be manly and punish me to the fullest extent of the "male codes", ie marginalization. I was completely ignored by someone who I see regularly, just yesterday. It was a cold day and he came into the theatre where my kids were performing and I saw him and said "get out of the cold dude". He completely ignored me, didn't look at me, but talked to the next guy sitting 10 feet away from me. It's like I am invisible, and not human because I am different.   

On the other hand if you attempt to be one of the girls, you are percieved as an interloper on their gender and an intruder. I have tried to make friends with  the gals, but even though I have the same hormones that they do running through my veins, acting on the same target tissues as they do, I will never be one of them in some of their eyes.

People who don't have these hormonal problems go through life with this badge of courage for their big breasts (women) or deep voices and cut bodies (men) like they did something special

In reality, they are nothing but individuals who were fortunate enough to have the hormones in their bodies match up with the social role they were assigned to. In return, someone who will never fit in without surgery and taking medication for the rest of my life to "appear normal", gets incorrectly branded as a "transperson", a weirdo, or a defect. Again, the branding is done by people who did nothing to look normal, just as I have done nothing to look "different"

Is it these realities that cause you so much pain? It is for me.

Please first and foremost consider yourself HUMAN, and realize that there is a responsibility/gift placed on you that most people don't have to deal with. That is the responsability of deciding whether you will be male or female (and I am assuming here that you are intersexed because you answered me in another post from that forum) Most people just come out as one or another, but some of of actually have to decide which one we are.

I pray for your peace of mind because as I said I understand the conflict.

M

Again, I have NO ill feelings about transpeople, in fact I understand your pain of transition, I DO have ill feeling about being misunderstood and mislabled. I totally respect anyone who is willing to take responsibility for the way they feel and then pay the price whatever it may be to find happiness. Hope that's clear to my ts sisters and brothers.


Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

tinkerbell

I understand what you are going through, Nero.  I used to feel the same way when *that thing* was attached to my body.  I used to shower in my underwear as well.

Back to the topic of the thread.  Well, I love my breasts now that I have them.  Before I had breast augmentation, my breasts were not so big (which was the main reason that I had a BA to begin with), so basically there was no relationship. 

Nowadays is different.  I love them and even though some people on this site have said that breasts become insensitive after a BA, in my case, that is not true.  They are very sensitive to the touch.  Life has changed so much in the last year :).  Before I used to hate my body with all my might.  I would never stand in front of a mirror naked.  Now, it is the opposite, I want to see myself naked all the time.  I guess it is a form of validation of some sort.  Like Madonna says in one of her songs "I wanna run naked in a rainstorm"  ;D

tink :icon_chick:
  •  

Nero

Quote from: Rachael on December 02, 2007, 11:11:27 AM
aside from going into trans stuff... ive had breasts of some form since my early teens, from bee stings to thier current perky beauty. im really proud of mine, they make me feel pretty, and mature, and good about myself.
i greatly dislike them when i go jogging...
they are an attractive feature, which attracts boys, which makes me happy.
they annoy me when i bump them, but i feel sexy just having them on my chest, i see them as something decidedly girly, with relation to me. as female a symbol as any. and aside from thier impracticality. they empower and give me confidence in my self image :)
R :police:

Wow, I wish they did that for me. But, yes they are very powerful. I mean just removing my shirt, I looked and felt so womanlyand sexy.
And it was always a turn on, even though it was so contrary to my identity. I often wished it wasn't - that I didn't have this problem with being male inside. I wished and tried to be a normal girl. But it never worked, and everyone even strangers noticed it.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
  •  

Patroklos

I wish I didn't have them. =/

Socially, I despise them. I can't change backstage with the other male actors because I wear a binder. I can't go swimming. I feel terrible when intimate with someone who knows they're there because, frankly, I have a nice rack and people have trouble ignoring that fact. DX

Really, I identify strongly with the male body and the fact that my own body doesn't match up is distressing.

Sexually, I can't enjoy them, as much as my body is hardwired to do so. They're sensitive and it feels excellent when someone pays them special attention but the fact that I can physically enjoy it actually horrifies me and I tend to withdraw from my body as much as possible.

I sleep with my binder on so that when I wake up I can have the illusion for 10 seconds that they aren't there.

However, in fact very strangely, the more secure I become in my identity as a man, the less issues with my body I have. I don't pass worth a damn but I'm still socially accepted as male by my friends and cast members and every day I feel like I can say with a little more conviction "I am a man, breasts or no." and so I kind of make a deal with my body - You comply as much as you reasonably can and I'll take care of you and won't hurt you.
  •  

Ell

Quote from: Nero on December 02, 2007, 10:10:02 AM
What is your relationship to your breasts? How do you feel about them?

i just absolutely love them. i know that may sound auto... something or other, but it is so. they combine so well with my personality, that it's not like they're badges of pride but more as symbols of my inner reality.

i can't tell you how stupid that sentence i just wrote sounds to me, but, you asked.

-ell

  •  

Wing Walker

I began my transition in 2002, when I was 51 years old.  Prior to that I had male breasts.  My nipples and the surrounding area were quite sensitive to touch, including a partner's stimulation (I'll not get overly descriptive here).  The sensations went to my pubic area and caused quite a commotion there.

I liked whatever breasts I had then.

Now I have 46C breasts and I get on fine with them.  I do my self-checks and I am gentle with myself when I put a brassiere on.  I am 56 and I have the breasts of a much younger woman.  They are a part of this body of mine and just as all of its other parts, I care for them and make sure all is well.  I don't hide my breasts but I don't base my life on having them.

I hope that I have made sense here.

Wing Walker
  •  

Kate

Maybe it's because I don't really have much yet (barely A's at this point), but I really don't think about them all that much beyond wishing they'd develop a bit more. I'm mostly just embarassed about what ISN'T there, more than thinking about what is.

~Kate~
  •  

cindybc

Hi having a shower with your underwear on is certainly not a common occupation. Like having a shower with your umbrella deployed. "Hee, hee, hee". Forgive me. I do know what you girls are speaking about. It's just that I have been in a silly giggly mood for the past hour.

Cindy
  •  

Suzie

I like them, but I wish they were bigger.  They can still be sensitive and pleasurable to the touch though.  I will probably get a BA at some point, but until then, I accept them for their pubescent innocence.   :angel:







  •  

Ell

Quote from: Kate on December 02, 2007, 03:58:09 PM
Maybe it's because I don't really have much yet (barely A's at this point), but I really don't think about them all that much beyond wishing they'd develop a bit more. I'm mostly just embarassed about what ISN'T there, more than thinking about what is.

~Kate~

are you being proactive about augmenting your HRT by bolstering your body's natural production of Human Growth Hormone? 
  •  

Kate

Quote from: ell on December 02, 2007, 08:21:57 PM
are you being proactive about augmenting your HRT by bolstering your body's natural production of Human Growth Hormone? 

Nah, I'm a simple girl! I'm too scared of messing up a good thing to put anything experimental in my body. The ONLY complaint I have are my breasts, but I don't want anything more than B's anyway, sooooooo... if it takes years to reach maximum development anyway, I might actually be on target. They ARE growing, just slowly now.

~Kate~
  •  

Ell

Quote from: Kate on December 02, 2007, 09:20:26 PM
Quote from: ell on December 02, 2007, 08:21:57 PM
are you being proactive about augmenting your HRT by bolstering your body's natural production of Human Growth Hormone? 

Nah, I'm a simple girl! I'm too scared of messing up a good thing to put anything experimental in my body. The ONLY complaint I have are my breasts, but I don't want anything more than B's anyway, sooooooo... if it takes years to reach maximum development anyway, I might actually be on target. They ARE growing, just slowly now.

~Kate~

Aw, yeah, sure ya are. i'm not talking about taking HGH. what i've heard, however, is that HGH production can often decline around the age of 40, causing slower than normal growth rates for Trans women, and reduced rates of antibodies, etc., etc.

One of the best ways to augment normal HGH production within the pituitary, is to take your regular multivitamins at night, before bed. also, i take collagen in the evening, which has a number of important amino acids, which are also needed for HGH production. that's it! now, does that sound like witchcraft?

-elphaba
  •  

Kate

Quote from: ell on December 02, 2007, 09:45:31 PM
One of the best ways to augment normal HGH production within the pituitary, is to take your regular multivitamins at night, before bed. also, i take collagen in the evening, which has a number of important amino acids, which are also needed for HGH production. that's it!

I'm actually afraid of multivitamens too, lol, as I'd rather try and get what I need by eating Good Stuff ;)

HRT regimens mess with so many things in the body, like potassium, that I don't wanna do anything else artificial if I don't have too.

Plus, in the end, I just look at end results. I needed to be able to live as Kate. I did a simple HRT program. And miracle of miracles, I can just roll out of bed now, all 6'2" of thinned hair me, and everyone "miss's" me. It's an impossibility, and yet... it's happened. SO, I feel like I'm walking on glass anymore, terrified of breaking this magic spell I'm living in. Whatever I did apparently got me here, so... I'm just gonna keep doing what I've been doing and enjoy this fairytale ;)

Quote
now, does that sound like witchcraft?

Now witchcraft I WILL do ;)

~Kate~
  •  

Ell

Quote from: Kate on December 02, 2007, 10:06:38 PM
HRT regimens mess with so many things in the body, like potassium, that I don't wanna do anything else artificial if I don't have too.

Plus, in the end, I just look at end results. I needed to be able to live as Kate. I did a simple HRT program. And miracle of miracles, I can just roll out of bed now, all 6'2" of thinned hair me, and everyone "miss's" me.

~Kate~
[/quote]

did ya get "miss"ed when you were four months on HRT?  i still get totally sirred   :(
  •  

Kate

Quote from: ell on December 02, 2007, 10:33:06 PM
did ya get "miss"ed when you were four months on HRT?  i still get totally sirred   :(

Nope. Give it time. At four months I was absolutely *desperate* to pass.

I had two fluke "maam's" around that time, but that was it. I was sirred for the first 4 months or so, then people refused to use ANY gendered pronouns from months 4-8 or so, then the miss's started, as well as the totally confused looks when I'd say, "Hi, I'm [male name]".

And again, I DON'T look that convincing, at least not to my eyes. A few members here have met me now, and I'm sure they think I'm deluded, lol. But... it works ;)

Patience, young one, patience...

~Kate~
  •  

Christo

Your relationship with "your" breasts

Never saw them as "mine" bro.  they were there. that was it.  I binded all the time, day & nite.  couldnt look at them.  nobody could touch them.  they didnt feel right.  I'm happy they are gone.
  •