Estradiol gel and follow-up 'bout me

[Soli]

I just switched from dermal patches to gel for my estradiol intake. Twice a day... wow, no more of these ugly spots of glued dirt around the actual or previous patches, no more stress that it will stick to my panties and so put me short of E for the month...

Over the last months, my skin has been increasingly sensible, so much that I couldn't stand the patches anymore, I developed pimples under them and even got a wound from trying to scrape off the glue leftovers with baby oil, I scrubbed too much, took a week to heal (actually not healed yet, so 10 days)

I also wonder about their efficiency, the E patches that is, since my estradiol level has been really up and down from blood test to blood test. 530 seven months ago, 185 one month ago... I'm hopeful the E gel will insure better and more stable intake... or it's me body that reacts weird to the hormonotherapy, which is a fact, I mean I reacted swiftly, my testo has been at women level, 1,4 for the past 7 months at least and my anti-androgen intake has been low all the way, and I cut completely the spiro yesterday... I don't need it anymore, my testo production centre... are dead. It's not 2 years I'm on hormonotherapy.

I'm also switching to bio identical progesterone, from MPA, I take it 2 weeks a month so we'll see. My doctor told me some say it has less feminizing effect than MPA... I hope not,if yes I'll go back to medroxyprogesterone. Without P, my breasts are regressing, but with too much MPA, my E was going down to zero. The balance we found, my doctor and I, past months between P and E has been much more efficient.

My switch to gel estradiol was also supposed to answer my plea for more estrogen, but at the last minute as I was walking out of her office, she told me it could be pretty much equivalent to what I was taking in patches, but that anyways we'll check that out in two months... it's a different way of intake...

okay... I thought I'd see you only in 6 months... But I'm tired of waiting for results. Obviously, me estrogen is still quite low...

I did lose all my muscles, really, and my legs totally rock, but since I'm very slim and always been, I have no hips, small teeny breasts, and my face... well shows 185 estrogen. When I get to 700-800, I'll be cute enough.

also I take Dutasteride and that diminishished my beard and upper lip hair to something I can manage without permanent removal since I'm poor... for now anyways. Duta made it all very manageable. I don't shave anymore, just pull them when it's too obvious, but I can go a couple days... I never heard of anyone else that Dutasteride does that to, neither did my doctor.

I had a CGH test done for my genetic, sure that I was XXY, but that result came as a real downer, as it read: "normal male"... took me 10 days to get over it... made me wonder what was male since I know I have no testosterone or so little. Anyways, maybe I'm mosaic XXY and could try to demonstrate it with more testing, but what the heck... I let go. Just... gimme more estrogen please doctor, think I can get there.

that was the good news about hearing that my E is at 185... means I might look good when I get to 700-800

I don't have the tests results in front of me, I'm referring to figures my doctor told me Thursday, and before, and I'm not sure what they are ng, dl/l whatever 

generally, I'm feeling GREAT, powerful, in control, cute and hot w my legs cis girls are jealous of and my perky breasts, I feel great but I can still hardly define myself. I'm not a woman and never will be. I'm very happy to be what I am even though it hasn't got a name other than trans, meaning: in the process of changing, but changing from what to what, IDK, I was never really a man, never really will be a woman... But I like it, as Alice Cooper says (in I'm Eighteen)

So I just needed to share this, thanks for reading

 

[Soli]

I thought my ticker down there would give accurate info but doesn't seem to. I started my estrogen in December 2015, had started spiro 6 weeks before, so that's 20 months + 1 1/2 on spiro only

[Harley Quinn]

I can't speak to the patches. Other than I suspect they're just as efficient as the gel, if you can make sure they stick and stay stuck. The gel seems quite possibly the next best thing to pellet implants for an even dose.

I find it difficult to believe that MPA is more feminizing that Micronized Progesterone. Of most of the reports and my brief use of it, MPA is androgenic and causes the production of belly fat. Both of which I experienced among other side effects. I feel you'll have good results with the Micronized Progesterone.

Congratulations on nearing the two year mark! And thanks for sharing. I always enjoy hearing good stories from transition. 😀

[Sarah leah]

I have been on gel for 9 weeks and the changes are starting very quickly versus the patches. On the patches I got red marks, they fell off and in all honestly my E was fine but I got no changes. That said on gel I have now got two very large lumps forming on my chest that are getting hard to hide. I have increased fat on my bum and oddly my arms!! In terms of muscles I have lost a lot in my arms, back and a bit in my legs.

[Soli]

Hey thanks for the interest Harley Quinn. I had a hard time believing what she was saying too about MPA and bio-identical P (micronized?). She told me estradiol pellet implants were not available up here in Canada, and that the shots are... too expensive for me. Gel so far feels like a good solution.
It's the first time in a long time I feel like sharing, I just feel so good, I so turn heads everywhere and like it, whatever the reason they look at me... I'm confident I'm sexy enough to raise questions in these male heads , and I'm female enough to get many solidarity looks and smiles from cis women. I like summertime.

[Soli]

hey Sarah Leah, it seems I already feel more action from gel, my breasts' sensibility has really increased since yesterday. It would be in line with the rest of my HRT journey, I always get an initial strong reaction. I get all excited, and then I find 4-6 months later that my E is still low... maybe not this time.

As for my muscles, I think I claimed here last year that I had lost all my muscle mass, but I lost again a lot of strength since then, and my shoulders hurt so bad 'cause of my 80 pounds dog... I cannot stand any, not any pulling on the leash anymore... I actually needed to adjust all my gesture, many moves I used to do without thinking I cannot do anymore... I have no choice but to have feminine gesture, otherwise it hurts, you know, when I pick up a full pot on the stove top, a pail of water, my grocery bags... needed to adjust all that. I need a man to carry those, now

[KayXo]

I started gel (Oestrogel) a few months ago, I like it, my breasts started to grow again. I'm post-op, on HRT since 2004. On injections, I had no breast growth at all.

I don't pay attention to levels, they really don't mean much. Besides, now on much lower levels of estradiol, I'm getting better results. Around 200 pg/ml vs. 1,000-4,000 pg/ml.

[Soli]

oh really KayXo? wow that new burst of growth must be cool to feel in your situation. It's very early to say this myself, but I think I also do feel already a better E intake 

and uhhh... yea, I was thinking also this morning as I was observing these signs on my face making me think I get better result, I was thinking... when my estradiol was around 550, I didn't look better than this, 7 months ago, no way, and now I'm at 185 and look better... so there is something there that escapes my understanding but what counts is the results
and that the sun remains present throughout the day 

[Soli]

Wow! Estradiol gel seems to really make a difference, the changes in my face are rocketing 

[OU812]

I get my estrogen as a compounded cream - it's surprising for me to hear so many of you get it as a gel! Does anyone have experience comparing cream vs gel?

I'm sure either is infinitely better than the oral route. I ended up with a small, benign liver tumor from pills, and have been on cream for several years with no tumor changes or other issues.

[KayXo]

I'm not sure the cream absorbs as effectively as the gel, basing myself on progesterone studies and that even though high levels are reached in saliva (and even capillaries), systemic effects remain weak, for the most part or poorly researched to date. The data with gel is much more solid and certain as blood levels of the substance significantly increase. This alone assures that tissues all over the body receive it.

What did you take orally? 17-beta estradiol, estradiol valerate, conjugated equine estrogens, esterified estrogens, ethinyl estradiol? Were you taking anything else at the time such as cyproterone acetate, a progestogen, etc? How was the tumor found, did you have any symptoms? Are you sure it wasn't there before HRT?

Studies have so far found no change in liver function or enzymes associated with the use of oral bio-identical estradiol so your report is quite surprising in the face of these findings.

[OU812]

What did you take orally? 17-beta estradiol, estradiol valerate, conjugated equine estrogens, esterified estrogens, ethinyl estradiol?

It was a generic combination of 17-beta with ethinyl estradiol that I took for ~3 years before this diagnosis. No other variety or medications.

How was the tumor found, did you have any symptoms? Are you sure it wasn't there before HRT?

I was having a 'mystery illness' of sorts and first had an ultrasound to check my gallbladder. In doing so (the gall was fine), they noticed something on my liver. An MRI confirmed it as an adenoma of the liver that's small enough to be asymptomatic, but with a small chance of malignant transformation and the potential for a grievous spontaneous rupture if it grows too large.

Liver tumors of my variety (adenoma) are well known to occur in women who take birth control pills - in fact, they're practically unheard-of (~1:1,000,000) in people who don't take hormone contraceptive pills.

Studies have so far found no change in liver function or enzymes associated with the use of oral bio-identical estradiol so your report is quite surprising in the face of these findings.

As far as liver function, yes, that was completely normal even in my case. But you're probably looking at trans-population studies. And in regards to the above, oral hormones do affect the liver.

They also grow from additional hormones. Pregnant women with such tumors have to be closely monitored, because pregnancy's barrage of hormones can cause them to grow rather quickly to a dangerous size, or else have them excised beforehand.

Fortunately, as I said, mine is stable with no changes after switching to a topical form of estrogen.

BUT, that's all just to help other people. Really I was just interested in any first-hand comparisons  between gels and creams rather than the data anyone can look up. Has anyone actually used both?

[Soli]

that's all just to help other people.

thanks for sharing OU812.

I had never heard of topical estradiol cream myself before you mentioned it here. What I can say about the gel is that it seems to penetrate very well my skin which is dry 2 minutes after if well spread, I apply it on my inner thighs and can really feel it like going in, and all the signs I have that my E is high are at maximum, all around my eyes, that hole on the tip of my nose is filled and all round, my skin is suuuper dry... it really rocketed, I'm even wondering if that dosage will not end up being too high.

[KayXo]

oral hormones do affect the liver.

You took ethinyl estradiol and you mention this occurs more frequently in women on contraceptive pills also containing ethinyl estradiol.

Two things:
- ethinyl estradiol is different than bio-identical estradiol and it is important to differentiate between the two. The triggering factor may be the form of estrogen that is not native to the body, difficult to metabolize and likely to cause such things. Not the route of administration. Ethinyl estradiol affect the liver to a MUCH greater extent than bio-identical 17B estradiol. Several studies have unequivocally demonstrated this.
- associations do not imply cause and effect

[OU812]

The triggering factor may be the form of estrogen that is not native to the body, difficult to metabolize and likely to cause such things. Not the route of administration.

Yeah, thanks. Not going to chance it. What you're saying sounds well-reasoned and everything, but I think it's foolish to make the liver into a first-pass filter for the hormones your body needs, especially when there is an incidence rate at which tumors such as mine do form in the absence of non-native estrogens.

But that's not even relevant, in any case, when topical, injectable, or subdermal options exist, are widely preferred in one form or another by those who have access to them, and have the advantage of bypassing the liver entirely.

TL;DR I'll try out the gel on my next resupply and let you all know how it compares to the cream form. Thanks for your insight, Soli.

[Niki Knight]

I have been on the gel for 8 months now with good results. Breast development has been good and skin has changed dramatically. I bruise much easier now and takes a bit longer to heal if I get a cut. Today hair has also decreased a fair bit.

My head hair has changed felling much softer than before.

Im 57 so it was the first choice for HRT and have been happy with the overall results so far.

No matter what age I would have gone with a gel or cream. If you don't have to damage organs and there is a better option available do it. Its logical girls.

Niki Marie

[Shellie Hart]

I started with patches (4 months) but switched to gel (now for a year). Glad I did. Effects have been wonderful for me. But I think any kind of estrogen would have worked well on my body. I spread it really everywhere (except breasts of course) -- thighs, backside, upper arms, belly. Dries almost instantly. I would recommend to anyone...

[KayXo]

I spread it really everywhere (except breasts of course) -- thighs, backside, upper arms, belly. Dries almost instantly. I would recommend to anyone...

I actually apply it on my breasts quite often because contrary to recommendations, there is actually no study that unequivocally shows that applying the gel on the breasts increases the risk of breast cancer, none whatsoever (pharmaceutical companies are overcautious due to fear of litigation) and if one takes the time to look at all the evidence, one soon realizes that there is also no evidence pointing to estrogen as the cause of breast cancer especially when one considers randomized controlled trials have actually found a DECREASE in the incidence of breast cancer in women taking estradiol alone or even with a progestin other than medroxyprogesterone acetate and when high doses of estrogens have been used for the treatment of advanced breast cancer since the 1960's with results just as effective (if not, slightly more effective) than anti-estrogens. My doctor agrees so no issues there, for me, at least. Just sharing my experience and my perspective on things, not recommending others do the same.

[Shellie Hart]

I actually apply it on my breasts quite often because contrary to recommendations, there is actually no study that unequivocally shows that applying the gel on the breasts increases the risk of breast cancer, none whatsoever (pharmaceutical companies are overcautious due to fear of litigation) and if one takes the time to look at all the evidence, one soon realizes that there is also no evidence pointing to estrogen as the cause of breast cancer especially when one considers randomized controlled trials have actually found a DECREASE in the incidence of breast cancer in women taking estradiol alone or even with a progestin other than medroxyprogesterone acetate and when high doses of estrogens have been used for the treatment of advanced breast cancer since the 1960's with results just as effective (if not, slightly more effective) than anti-estrogens. My doctor agrees so no issues there, for me, at least. Just sharing my experience and my perspective on things, not recommending others do the same.

Good news. Food for thought.

[Soli]

interesting, Kay, I actually applied left overs I had on my hand on my scrotum, thinking maybe it'll help shrink it more or something  and at one point naturally raised my hands on my breasts, then stopped... and thought: why, not on my breasts?
If I apply the same logic as my initial search 2 years ago about the transdermal patches, the best place to apply the gel to get good penetration of the estradiol would be where there are fatty tissues. No one said that to me about the gel, but I figure it's the same as for the patches, so why then are not the butt and the breasts mentioned to apply the gel. I don't think my arms is a good place, skinny me have very few spots with fatty tissues, that's why I chose my inner thighs
with my mother and my sister who had a mastectomy because of breast cancer, growing breasts in the first place wasn't a very good idea anyways, so I don't really care 'bout breast cancer. If it comes well that's that. I needed breasts...