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Christian kids left behind – by their parents {Commentary}

Started by LostInTime, December 04, 2007, 08:53:26 AM

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LostInTime

Christian kids left behind – by their parents
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59008
By Olivia St. John

When it comes to actively promoting sin to public school children, the homosexuals are light years ahead of adulterers, fornicators and substance abusers, who haven't yet implemented student-run organizations to convince children that such lifestyle choices are normal. In Iowa, one male transsexual dressing in a skirt, high-heels and a wig regularly speaks to both high school and college students. A couple of "Liz's" duded up presentations are titled "The Bible and the GLBT Community" and "Transgender and the Church." When is the last time you heard of a heterosexual prostitute doing that?
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Kate

Sad to watch innocent children being indoctrinated into their parent's cults... perpetuating the cycle of hatred.

Ya'd THINK parents would love their children, and give them a safe and nurturing environment where they could grow into their OWN free-thinking individuals. But no, bludgeoning little kids into being little robotic hate-machines is all that matters to these so-called "parents."

~Kate~
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kalt

How can these people who preach, "love" above everything else be so harsh, hateful, bigoted and cruel?

Reality check, anyone?
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cindianna_jones

"This is incredible considering that 85 percent of children from Christian families are being public schooled, and around 85 percent of them are losing their faith by the time they graduate."

No, I disagree.  It seems to me that these kids are seeing the fallacies of their forefathers and are making up their own minds.  Perhaps they are reshaping their faith to match reality.  In any case, if these numbers were true, we'd have a world filled with peace in only one generation!

Cindi
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tekla

This ain't even close to the most moronic article on that web page.  Check out the one on female athletes.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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cindianna_jones

I agree Tekla.  This person's opinion is one of bias and bigotry.  How anyone can take a message of peace and turn it to hatred boggles my mind.

Cindi
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LostInTime

Most of their hatred is rooted, they say, in the Old Testament. Did not their so called savior Jesus Christ forge a new covenant with the big invisible being in the sky? If so does that mean that the New Testament is what they should go by and that the OT is nothing more than a relic of the past?
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Sandy

Here is our challenge.  It certainly would be mine.

I've read a number of these vitriolic articles.  All of them seeming to preach us vs them philosophies.  And how the world is suffering because of the "gay agenda" or the "transsexual menace", as if there really were such a thing!  If there is, I never got the memo!

Could any of us truly "love our neighbors as ourselves" as is taught by Jesus and others, when our neighbors hate us so?  If there really was an "agenda", I would think that top of the list is to love the dickens out of these people.  And if I got that memo, I know I would have a really hard time with that.

No one has answered me adequately how to do that.  It's similar to how we should love the fundamentalist Islamic people even though some of them preach violence and hatred of Christians and Jews.  How can we do that?

I for one am not about to become a martyr.  Too many sisters and brothers names are read every November 20th and I don't want my name to be one of them.

But somehow we must build a bridge to them, or provide them with information so that they can know us for who we are.  That we are ordinary people who have been given an extraordinary blessing that few others could carry.

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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LostInTime

I note that they did not cite where that 85% figure came from, yet more F.U.D. from the religious bigots.
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tekla

Oh 'cite'... as in 'sources' or 'facts'?  That's not the ballpark they are playing in.  You just have to believe them, after all, god has moved them to write this, and to doubt them is akin to doubting god.  Don't believe me?  Just ask them.

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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NicholeW.

The impetus toward fundamentalism (in any religion including the civic/economic 'religion' of capitalism in the USA) seems to actually be a longing for an earlier time when the modern world didn't press so much on people.

Fundamentalist Muslims often look to the age of Mohammed or the early Caliphate as a golden age. Christian fundamentalists of all stripes tend to look toward the age of Jesus and St. Paul, the early years of Christian communities or the early rule of the bishops.

Basically people want a time when the rules are enforced as they thought the rules were enforced then. The assumption is that they would be 'right' in such a world. They would rule. Instead, the modern world, ever-changing, passes them by.

They hate what they refuse to understand and accept, and as their acceptance grows more and more problematic they get more and more shrill and casting of others into Hell.

At base, I suspect it is fueled by those who have no hope. They see others getting rich, wielding power, establishing empire and their lots grow ever more precarious in regard to how much power they possess, how wealthy they are, how much education they can afford.

The most glaring examples of what they fear and loath they identify as the Evil Brood: world banking concerns, Jews, Blacks, Americans, Iranians, Arabs, gays, trans-people, intellectuals, scientists, super-rich, pop-stars, etc.

For an example: They compare themselves with "those people" and cannot imagine how someone could be blessed to have the wherewithal to use $25-$100+ K to get a sex-change when they cannot even get a vacation. What else can that be a sign of except the growing rift between the world and God?

Their leaders use their fears to keep and maintain power and influence, so that they do not get left behind and the despair and lack of hope seethes in the fundies. They would like to love, I'm sure. And they do love "their own kind." But, to love those who are changing in a world they would prefer to be static 1000 or more years ago is something they can talk about but not do.

These are people in great pain, and they think that if they just cause others enough pain that they can both change their own status and bring the world back to the golden agaes they imagine once existed. God will allow them the rule in that age.
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RebeccaFog

I wish I was the Love Fairy.  Then I would fly around with my Magic love wand and belt, I mean, tap these people on the back of their heads.   :)
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cindianna_jones

Quote from: Nichole W. on December 04, 2007, 06:04:15 PM
The impetus toward fundamentalism (in any religion including the civic/economic 'religion' of capitalism in the USA) seems to actually be a longing for an earlier time when the modern world didn't press so much on people.

Fundamentalist Muslims often look to the age of Mohammed or the early Caliphate as a golden age. Christian fundamentalists of all stripes tend to look toward the age of Jesus and St. Paul, the early years of Christian communities or the early rule of the bishops.

Basically people want a time when the rules are enforced as they thought the rules were enforced then. The assumption is that they would be 'right' in such a world. They would rule. Instead, the modern world, ever-changing, passes them by.

They hate what they refuse to understand and accept, and as their acceptance grows more and more problematic they get more and more shrill and casting of others into Hell.

At base, I suspect it is fueled by those who have no hope. They see others getting rich, wielding power, establishing empire and their lots grow ever more precarious in regard to how much power they possess, how wealthy they are, how much education they can afford.

The most glaring examples of what they fear and loath they identify as the Evil Brood: world banking concerns, Jews, Blacks, Americans, Iranians, Arabs, gays, trans-people, intellectuals, scientists, super-rich, pop-stars, etc.

For an example: They compare themselves with "those people" and cannot imagine how someone could be blessed to have the wherewithal to use $25-$100+ K to get a sex-change when they cannot even get a vacation. What else can that be a sign of except the growing rift between the world and God?

Their leaders use their fears to keep and maintain power and influence, so that they do not get left behind and the despair and lack of hope seethes in the fundies. They would like to love, I'm sure. And they do love "their own kind." But, to love those who are changing in a world they would prefer to be static 1000 or more years ago is something they can talk about but not do.

These are people in great pain, and they think that if they just cause others enough pain that they can both change their own status and bring the world back to the golden agaes they imagine once existed. God will allow them the rule in that age.

Nichole, what an inciteful and beautifully written observation.  I believe that you are spot on in your analysis.

Cindi
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on December 04, 2007, 07:45:14 PM

Nichole, what an inciteful and beautifully written observation.  I believe that you are spot on in your analysis.

Cindi

Thanks, Ms. Wisdom. umm, I mean Cindi. Seriously, coming from you with your own insights I find that a truly large compliment.

I was raised in a fundie Christian family. I got the love my parents were able to give me. The girl part they could never accept or tolerate even. But, I did know I was loved by them, just not understood at all.

I saw the glorification of "being not of the world, rather, in it." To be out-of-touch was almost a heaven -on-earth for many of them. I have to give my parents some credit though. They were loathe to consign anyone to Hell. Not their job. Other were not so discreet.

I still ache for many of them. My sister and brother chiefly. They denied me years ago now and because I was finally able to just walk through my life as myself and not as who we had been taught I was.

I suppose I could never muster enough definite certainty about anything much, now isn't that so odd for a woman who was born with male genitalia? to declare much of anything as ironclad. But, my sense of their pain is acute. I grew up among people like that: aliens in an alien land, looking for their true home beyond the clouds.

Yes, sometimes when I think that I have had it bad, I consider the pain in many of their lives and how they yearn to salve it.

I think what we often forget is that they are people as well as we. I know, taking that into consideration as someone ties you to a stake and puts a torch to the wood piled around you takes rather more fortitude than most of us are capable of displaying!! 

Anyhow, Cindi. Thank you for the kind words.
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tekla

Yes she is spot on.  I would remind you though, that a wounded and cornered animal is much more dangerous than one that is not hurting or trapped.  Those that believe in Armageddon might just be willing to cause it as a way to prove themselves correct.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Kate

Deep down, behind all the loathing and hate, they're thinking, "God, I wish I was that brave..."

They're jealous of us. And afraid of us. They hate us because we remind them of what they could be, but most likely never will. We represent a freedom and power their soul craves, but yet they deny themselves.

We're children playing free in the warm, sunlit meadows, while they enviously watch us from behind their prison bars, withering away in the cold, afraid they'd never make it on the outside.

~Kate~
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Sandy

Cindi, Tekla, Nichole, Kate, et al:

This is why I feel so blessed to be who I am.  All of you have responded with compassion and understanding in ways I could never have conceived of.  You have shown me where compassion really comes from.  I'm not saying that we are better then they are because we are more compassionate.  But would one of these fundamentalist evangelicals view us with the same compassion I have seen here?

I'm proud to know all of you!

And Rebis, I would love to be the Love Fairy for a while too!  There are some heads that definitely need tapping!

-Sandy
Out of the darkness, into the light.
Following my bliss.
I am complete...
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tekla

That is very nice Kate.  It's a very romantic notion.  But the people I know who believe and feel this way are as far from romantic as they are from reason.  They see the world in very stark terms of right and wrong.  Since they define themselves as 'right' those who are different from them can only be wrong.  They see that in absolute terms, there can be no deviation from that.  "God wrote it, I believe it, that settles it" as the bumper sticker says is a notion that no mere human can ever debate - least of all by using either reason or romantic thoughts.

Few things in the history of our planet are as sinister as people who for some reason feel they are god's chosen vessel, that they have the truth (regardless of what that 'truth' is), and they they are called upon - and 'calling' is exactly the term they use - to enforce that truth of god upon the rest of us.  Likewise, few things are as dangerous as those who would feel, as so perfectly stated by one who knows, that they are 'not of this earth.'

Thus, being not of this earth, the rewards, the punishments that society might deal out to them are naught.  Their rewards and punishments - everlasting at that - are of god, not men.  And, that is a very scary thought that people are beyond the society, beyond the law, beyond any punishment and reward that can be offered on earth.  They are way past any sort of control.

Yes Kate, they will never make it out into the sunshine to play.  I think what you don't understand is that they don't want to.  They don't like the sun.  They seek to cast us all into the total darkness that only superstition can offer.  They live in a world of metaphysics, not real physics.  What is unseen is more real than anything you see.  What you know, pales in comparison to what they believe.  They don't even see it as sunshine, they see it as eternal darkness.  They see it as sin.  An abomination to god himself (and have no doubt, to these people god is very, VERY, male.)  And make no mistake, they use that abomination word and by they they mean: "

And be very afraid.  They are losing and they know it.  Having gained the pResident of the US, the Congress and the Courts, they still did not achieve what they wanted.  Then next step will be far more millitant, count on it.  Among other things, they are going to lose the three above powers.  Its not going to make them more contrite, and you can take that to the bank.


A few years ago now, a young TG was brutally murdered here in the bay area.  I went to the funeral to protect the family from a group of believers who wanted to tell the greving mother how many days her beloved child had been in hell.  (This is true, I'm not making it up.)  So on one side of the street were these believers, on the other were a group of us, all wearing butterfly/angel wings.  Some of us had the translucent airy-fairy kind of wings, others had the red and white kind - because among the people who showed up to keep these people from the funeral were several members of the Hell's Angels.  (politics makes strange bedfellows as the saying goes)  And of course in the middle were the police.  Had the cops not been there I'm sure there would have been a major league beat-down.  And that's not just the Angels, good as they are at beatings, but there are plenty of us in the Bay Area that know that by the time you get to be 40 or 50 years old, and have been wearing skirts in public since we were in our teens you get real good at fighting, or you get dead.  But, here is the point.  I'm sure they would not have minded getting beat.  I'm sure that if we beat them to the death they so justly deserved - if only for the violation of common decency if nothing else - they would have WELCOMED IT.  We were 'sending them home.' 

Fear the person who does not fear death.  There is no reason that will work.  No punishment you can offer to pull them in line.

And I don't think they wish they were that brave.  I really think they wish you were dead and in hell.  And if they can push that process, they will - and in plenty of cases, they have, at least the dead part.  The power we represent to them is not the freedom of will or action, but the power of Satan.

That much I'm pretty sure of.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Hazumu

I have to add...

It's very hard to indoctrinate those who don't already have the biases.  I've been reading Steven Pinker, and he pulls together many studies to make his points.

He has studies that say that certain traits and biases are heritable.  In other words, prejudice and bigotry run in families.

So, yes, you can 'indoctrinate' your offspring into your belief system, as they're already predisposed to your teachings.

But passing on traits is not perfect.  There are those who escape the cycle, and those who -- although they have the same biases as their parents and siblings -- overcome them and change.  Think the white supremacist who one day gives it up and reaches out to those he was prejudiced to.

I find it ironic in light of that tidbit (bigotry is heritable,) that the indoctrinators take all the credit for 'raising their kids right', when the outcome was a pretty sure bet anyway.

The spectre of homeschooling is that without any outside influence, those kids will be stuck in the RRR echo chamber, and those who might escape will take much longer to find the seed ideas that get them to change.

It's a lot like us trans.  And they're hoping that by stifling the idea you CAN change gender, they can prevent ANyBODY from escaping the trap.

Karen
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Rachael

what i find amusing, is titleing 'liz' as a prostitute somehow? wtf? 'transexual male'? wut?
its sad how fundamentalist organizations can make themselves sound so right... loosing thier faith? soul murdered? maybe thier just escapeing the tryany of fundy christianity in the bible belt :P
R :police:
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