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Being Socialized Female 101

Started by kylen kantari, September 12, 2017, 03:31:27 PM

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kylen kantari

Hi ladies! So, the other day I was at my support group and one of the ladies there mentioned that because they weren't raised and socialized as a female, they didn't know any of the do's and don'ts of being a girl that all female bodied people are taught from a young age. At this point they all turned to me (the only FTM in the group) and asked me what some of those do's and don'ts are. I got thinking that this was probably a common problem you gals run into, so I thought I'd make a list and post it here.

Disclaimer: These are my own personal experiences and observations and are obviously not going to be universal. A lot of these are things that I'm trying to unlearn myself.

•   The first thing you should know is that girls are taught from a young age to be a little bit fearful. What I mean is that they are raised knowing that being raped, assaulted and/or murdered is a very real possibility. This isn't just being paranoid, statistics show that between ¼ to ½ of all women have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime. This means that they behave very differently in certain situations than a man would because they are aware that there is constant threat. This doesn't mean live your life in fear, it just means you need to be aware of your surroundings and avoid certain situations.

o   Don't walk down dark alleys alone at night. In fact, be extremely cautious of going anywhere alone at night. If you have too, be alert, pay attention to your surroundings. Don't be looking at your phone. If you're walking to your car, take your keys out of your purse before you enter the parking lot and walk with them in your hand.

o   Body language is a big factor in keeping you safe. Don't try to make yourself look small, don't hunch your shoulder down and keep your head looking at the ground. Put your shoulders back, your chin up and be looking around. And don't be afraid to glare at anyone you think is suspicious looking. Anyone who is looking to assault someone is looking for a victim: someone who is weak, easy prey and won't fight back. So, if you look like you know what they are up to and will fight back if they try anything, they will most likely leave you alone.

o   If you are at a club, bar or any type of similar setting, never leave your drink unattended. In fact, never let it out of your sight. Putting it down and looking away is exactly how you get roofied. And yes, people try that all the time. Pick it up, and don't put it down until you're done, or if you're sitting at a table, put it directly in your line of sight so you can see if anyone tries anything.

o   And on another note, at such places, always try to go to the restroom in groups of at least two. There's a reason women do this, it's because there is safety in numbers and restrooms at such places are great places to be assaulted. Think about it, you wander away from your group of friends alone, to the back of the club where there are fewer people, to a room with a door that locks. Perfect ambush opportunity.

o   Be cautious of men you don't know approaching you when you are alone. Your car breaking down on the side of the road is always a bad situation to find yourself in. Don't assume that everyone who stops and offers to help is doing so with good intentions.

o   Don't pick up hitchhikers. I feel like that should be self-explanatory.

•   <slut shaming portion removed> Admin

Are you scared yet? You've probably never had to think of any of these things before, but these are things women are always aware of. You don't have to live in fear, but a healthy dose of caution goes a long way to keeping you safe.

And now that I've made you completely paranoid, let's move on to lighter things. Some of these things many of you probably already know, but I'm trying to be thorough.

•   Skirts and dresses. There are few things to know about wearing skirts and dresses.

o   When you sit down wearing a skirt or dress, you never just sit down. This causes the skirt to gather underneath you uncomfortably and causes your skirt to wrinkle. What you do is this: you reach behind you with both hands, palms open flat, and gently pull the loose material of the back of the skirt forward until its resting against the back of your thighs. You do this as you are in the process of sitting down. It should be one fluid motion. Sweep your arms back, palms open, move the material while sitting down, and then bring your hand into your lap.

o   Always keep your knees together when sitting while wearing a skirt or dress. No one wants to see your underwear.

o   When you bend down to pick something up off the floor while wearing a skirt, you never bend over at the waist. You bend down with your knees to pick something up. Again, no one wants to see your underwear.

o   Bonus: how to walk in heels. The trick to walking in heels, is that you are not walking with your entire foot. You are only walking on the ball of your foot, or if you have really high heels, your tippy toes. If you're standing still, you can put your weight on your heel, but when walking only put weight on the balls of your feet. And when walking down stairs, hold onto the hand rail.

•   Women cross their legs when they are sitting down. It is something most of them do unconsciously. They sit down and immediately cross their legs. Either one thigh over the other, or at the ankles.

•   When women stand, they tend to put all their weight on only one leg at a time. If you've notices how most of the time women have their hips canted when they are standing, it is because of this. Put all your weight on one leg and kind of relax the knee of the other leg so it is slightly bent.

•   Women carry things differently than men do. Women's bodies are different than men's bodies, which yes you already knew, but probably not in this way. Men are built to work, so they are stronger in their shoulders and upper bodies, and have a center of mass that is higher up on the body than women. Women are built to carry babies. This means that their center of mass, and the strongest, most balanced part of their body is the hips. So, when women carry things, especially heavy things, they carry them on their hips not their shoulders. For example, when carrying a laundry basket, women will often hold it in one hand and rest the other end against their hip, either in front of them or to the side. Or if they're carrying a bag of something heavy, they carry it in both arms, low in front of their bodies, and rest the weight on their hip bones.

•   When women make eye contact with someone, they smile. Even if you don't know the person, still give at least a small smile. Okay this is kind of a generalization, but it seems to be a thing most women do and what is expected of them.

•   Women listen to every single word that comes out of someone's mouth and always have some kind of reply or comment afterwards. According to my mother, men do this thing where they tune someone out if they don't think they're saying anything important (which I agree with because I do this all the time). But women always listen to everything that someone is saying, no matter what the topic. So, no matter how many times a day your mother has to tell you about the exploits of all the birds at the bird feeder, you have to listen to every word and each time have an appropriately enthusiastic response.

•   Women look someone in the eye or in the face when they are talking. Yes, this is a normal social thing for everyone, but women tend to do it more so than men do. In other words, women are less likely to look away during the conversation than men are. Women also tend to lean forward toward the other person when speaking to or listening to each other.

•    Women compliment each other, a lot. They even do it to women they don't know, but it is especially common among women that they do know. For example, "that's a nice shirt" "I love your hair" "where did you get those shoes."

•   It's a lot more acceptable for a woman to show her emotions than it is for a man.

•   Women carry things in purses, and never in their pockets. Except for maybe Chapstick or their phone.

Wow, that was the longest post I've ever made in my life. I'll probably have more things to add as I think of them. Or if anyone else wants to add feel free.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask, I don't mind talking about it. Just be warned, I'm FTM and I kind of made a lousy girl.
Learning to run freely
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Megan.

Thank you,  good tips!

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

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MaryT

Wow, that's the most exhaustive masterclass I've ever seen on the subject!  I hope that someone with the power adds something to your Susan's Place reputation.
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Sarah_P

--Sarah P

There's a world out there, just waiting
If you only let go what's inside
Live every moment, give it your all, enjoy the ride
- Stan Bush, The Journey



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FlightlessFootwear

As a MAAB I am astounded by how many of those things I already do and have always done. Carrying things at the hip, putting weight on just one leg, walking on the ball of the foot, crossing legs, etc... are all things I have been doing forever. Even the innate fear and slight distrust of others that you mentioned is there, though that could be from a number of different things that have happened to me.

If I decide to transition that main thing I would need to work on is eye contact. I get some anxiety making eye contact with strangers, and even around friends I tend to look away a lot due to low confidence.
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Kylo

I don't remember being taught most of those things at all. That's why I got into quite a few difficult situations.

But yeah, I'd say they're probably helpful here.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Roll

Wow, great list!

I'm curious, for the long term HRT mtf's here, do you tend to notice yourself naturally changing the way you carry things to the hip "method" given the shoulder muscle loss/general body changes?
~ Ellie
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An Open Letter to anyone suffering from anxiety, particularly those afraid to make your first post or continue posting!

8/30/17 - First Therapy! The road begins in earnest.
10/20/17 - First coming out (to my father)!
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Sky Michelle

As a male to female transgender (MTF), beginning my transition at age 50, this is valuable information to me. I can surmise a lot is common sense. A lot - I missed out on growing up as a boy. I am trying hard to break masculine habits in lieu of more feminine mannerisms. To mention, congratulations on your transition FTM. I have begun to realize that as quick as I want this transition to take place, it is not as simple as that. It seems that I have begun to choreograph a ballet of steps to get from point A to point B. Meaning managing time, money, insurance, work, and day-to-day activities, that allow for my transition to move forward. It is a journey.

Thank you for taking the time to put pen to paper.

Cheers! Sky Michelle
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Roll

Actually, additional random question playing into this topic... Are there any good "femininity practice" hobbies to take up? Things that may perhaps contribute to training a few of the socialized feminine mannerisms that aren't necessarily nature (I feel like sitting a certain way is natural to a degree for contrast, or at least my sister who I'm not out to always makes fun of me for sitting like her). This was my thinking taking up yoga a bit, in that it feels like it encourages very feminine movements, and would be good practice for posture if nothing else (something men often just ignore outside of the military), so now I'm wondering if there may be other ideas like this. 
~ Ellie
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
I ALWAYS WELCOME PMs!
(I made the s lowercase so it didn't look as much like PMS... ;D)

An Open Letter to anyone suffering from anxiety, particularly those afraid to make your first post or continue posting!

8/30/17 - First Therapy! The road begins in earnest.
10/20/17 - First coming out (to my father)!
12/16/17 - BEGAN HRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5/21/18 - FIRST DAY OUT AS ME!!!!!!!!!
6/08/18 - 2,250 Hair Grafts
6/23/18 - FIRST PRIDE!
8/06/18 - 100%, completely out!
9/08/18 - I'M IN LOVE!!!!
2/27/19 - Name Change!

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widdershins

Quote from: Roll on September 12, 2017, 09:59:01 PM
Actually, additional random question playing into this topic... Are there any good "femininity practice" hobbies to take up? Things that may perhaps contribute to training a few of the socialized feminine mannerisms that aren't necessarily nature (I feel like sitting a certain way is natural to a degree for contrast, or at least my sister who I'm not out to always makes fun of me for sitting like her). This was my thinking taking up yoga a bit, in that it feels like it encourages very feminine movements, and would be good practice for posture if nothing else (something men often just ignore outside of the military), so now I'm wondering if there may be other ideas like this.

AFAB here.

If you're a gamer, start playing the healer. The abundance of women in the role goes beyond the old women = nurturing stereotype. It's that the skillset required plays to the strengths of what women are socialized to do. You need to by hyper-aware of everyone's position, needs, etc. A good healer will also pay attention to their teammates individual quirks, keep an eye on others' emotional state and how it's effecting their risk-taking, know exactly how their friends are going to react in any given situation, etc. Seriously, if you want a glimpse into the mindset women are traditionally expected to live with, it's the best one I can suggest.

Another thing that I'm pretty sure helps with trans people of all genders is singing. The vocal techniques you learn when singing make you aware of stuff that you normally wouldn't think of when you speak. And that knowledge, in turn, can be applied to altering your speaking voice.


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LizK

Quote from: Sky Michelle on September 12, 2017, 09:14:00 PM
As a male to female transgender (MTF), beginning my transition at age 50, this is valuable information to me. I can surmise a lot is common sense. A lot - I missed out on growing up as a boy. I am trying hard to break masculine habits in lieu of more feminine mannerisms. To mention, congratulations on your transition FTM. I have begun to realize that as quick as I want this transition to take place, it is not as simple as that. It seems that I have begun to choreograph a ballet of steps to get from point A to point B. Meaning managing time, money, insurance, work, and day-to-day activities, that allow for my transition to move forward. It is a journey.

Thank you for taking the time to put pen to paper.

Cheers! Sky Michelle

Dear Sky Michelle
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Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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KarynMcD

Great post!
Quote from: kylen kantari on September 12, 2017, 03:31:27 PM
No one wants to see your underwear.
Well, the guys do.  ;)

Quote from: MaryT on September 12, 2017, 03:51:08 PM
I hope that someone with the power adds something to your Susan's Place reputation.
Click the green thumbs up icon underneath the word Reputation.

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MaryT

Quote from: KarynMcD on September 13, 2017, 05:30:32 AM
Click the green thumbs up icon underneath the word Reputation.

I can't see a thumbs up icon.  Is it something that Newbies don't have yet?
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Charlie Nicki

Great post, thanks! Positive reputation given.
Latina :) I speak Spanish, English and a bit of Portuguese.
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Thea

Quote from: Roll on September 12, 2017, 09:59:01 PM
Actually, additional random question playing into this topic... Are there any good "femininity practice" hobbies to take up? Things that may perhaps contribute to training a few of the socialized feminine mannerisms that aren't necessarily nature (I feel like sitting a certain way is natural to a degree for contrast, or at least my sister who I'm not out to always makes fun of me for sitting like her). This was my thinking taking up yoga a bit, in that it feels like it encourages very feminine movements, and would be good practice for posture if nothing else (something men often just ignore outside of the military), so now I'm wondering if there may be other ideas like this.

I've started an online class for basic belly dancing. It helps me to learn to move more gracefully and to shift my balance to a more feminine posture. Also, I found an online workout for women that want to improve their posture. It only takes 10 minutes and I try to do it every morning.
Veteran, U.S. Army

First awareness of my true nature 1971
Quit alcohol & pot 10/22/14
First acceptance of my true nature 10/2015
Started electrolysis 9/12/17
Begun Gender Therapy 7/06/18
Begun HRT 8/01/18
Quit tobacco 11/23/18

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Janes Groove

Quote from: kylen kantari on September 12, 2017, 03:31:27 PM

•   Women carry things differently than men do.

I always found it interesting the difference between the way men carry books and women carry books.

Men carry books like they are carrying a football.

Women carry books like they are carrying a baby.

I think this also points to a significant way men and woman approach learning itself.

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Roll

Quote from: widdershins on September 13, 2017, 03:33:26 AM
AFAB here.

If you're a gamer, start playing the healer. The abundance of women in the role goes beyond the old women = nurturing stereotype. It's that the skillset required plays to the strengths of what women are socialized to do. You need to by hyper-aware of everyone's position, needs, etc. A good healer will also pay attention to their teammates individual quirks, keep an eye on others' emotional state and how it's effecting their risk-taking, know exactly how their friends are going to react in any given situation, etc. Seriously, if you want a glimpse into the mindset women are traditionally expected to live with, it's the best one I can suggest.

That's hilarious to me you mention that, because I'm always stuck as the healer. Didn't necessarily want to be, but inevitably I was. And a pretty damn good one. :D

Quote
Another thing that I'm pretty sure helps with trans people of all genders is singing. The vocal techniques you learn when singing make you aware of stuff that you normally wouldn't think of when you speak. And that knowledge, in turn, can be applied to altering your speaking voice.

I've never been much of a singer, but have been trying vocal lessons of late for this very reason.
~ Ellie
■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
I ALWAYS WELCOME PMs!
(I made the s lowercase so it didn't look as much like PMS... ;D)

An Open Letter to anyone suffering from anxiety, particularly those afraid to make your first post or continue posting!

8/30/17 - First Therapy! The road begins in earnest.
10/20/17 - First coming out (to my father)!
12/16/17 - BEGAN HRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5/21/18 - FIRST DAY OUT AS ME!!!!!!!!!
6/08/18 - 2,250 Hair Grafts
6/23/18 - FIRST PRIDE!
8/06/18 - 100%, completely out!
9/08/18 - I'M IN LOVE!!!!
2/27/19 - Name Change!

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Sno

Such a great list, here's a few extras:
Your hands are another cue, males don't usually 'talk with their hands' and close the palms off, by pointing them in towards themselves, females do more 'hand talking' and the palms are open, and pointing at the person they are conversing with, and quite often reflexively open whilst walking too.
Flexibility/strength alters the way we all move, and females are generally more flexible, and less strong than males, and it shows in movement. If you're not strong, your muscles cannot 'force' a change in direction quickly, so male movement appears fast, and rigid snapping from position to position. Relax, and be fluid - smoothly transition from one position to the next, it's why I love ballet.

*off to YouTube to watch some more dance videos*

Rowan
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SadieBlake

Thanks Kylen, a lot of those I've known, practiced some and of course not so much others over the years. The bar thjngs, especially guarding a drink to not br roofied and risks of being trapped in the loo were new things.

I've said in my own transition thread, while I know how to sit ladylike, knees together and that's what I do when there are people around, when I'm solo I enjoy knowing I'm exposing myself and I like knowing I could any time I wanted to. I'm just not really cut out to be a good girl though I also try to keep that in context. My gf isn't cut out that way either, she doesn't flash people or anything but she's very given to fluffing up her breasts and doesn't really think about that in public.

About some of the habits of motion or stereotypical feminine activities, I've always been attracted to the latter and as I began transition 20 years ago, I realized that I do most of my activities in a feminine way. So for instance in rock climbing I rely far more on balance, precise foot placement and smooth movements than on strength or power. The stereotypical masculine things I've done usually were executed with a more feminine style or flair, for instance I have really good balance on a motorcycle.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
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Kylo

Quote from: Janes Groove on September 13, 2017, 01:37:24 PM
I always found it interesting the difference between the way men carry books and women carry books.

Men carry books like they are carrying a football.

Women carry books like they are carrying a baby.

I think this also points to a significant way men and woman approach learning itself.

I was quite surprised back when I studied biology at university to find the biological female arm is physically angled differently from the male arm at the elbow joint... another subtle example of sexual dimorphism in our species. This could explain in part why they do this, as it might actually be more physically comfortable for them to hold things in a different way to men. I never noticed how I held things myself, but if there's literally a different bone structure, it's going to affect how we carry things, however slightly. . . 
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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