Pushing the envelope

[Bari Jo]

I find myself wanting to push the envelope of the straight guy people are used to, all the time now.  I guess it started when I first started HRT, then I started wearing my hair in a way that will eventually look good when longer.  I wear perfume everyday, and lip balm, lips always seem dry now.  I started wearing ladies skinny jeans, now it's all I wear at wor.k.  I have a business trip coming up and asked for advise on out email thread about earbuds.  Throughout the models I was shown, one of them came in pink.  Now I want that one, but think internally, is this pushed too far?  They also offer hunter green, which I love, but their ad shows a man wearing them with a big bushy beard.  Instantly I cannot get green.  I find myself planning what my next envelope push is too.  Should I put my earring back in (hasn't been in for 20 years) Should I get my other ear pierced?  When should I start wearing makeup at work?  Argh, these thoughts are often.  I wouldn't say it's GD, since I'm not hating myself or in the guilt/shame cycle, but it is often like GD.

Do you ladies have similar needs to push?  Is it a normal thing to feel?

[IzzyC]

I find myself wanting to push the envelope of the straight guy people are used to, all the time now. 
Do you ladies have similar needs to push?  Is it a normal thing to feel?

I think so, because I felt the same way, and am doing so.

Granted it was more of a, now I've just stopped bothering to police my behavior. Ever since I started getting bullied heavily for mannerisms and such as a kid/teen, I started consciously policing myself and thus was always super tense.

Later teens/early adult drinking removed my ability to police myself consciously, so I became a totally different hyper friendly/emotional/effeminate person when I was intoxicated that made everyone question my sexuality/gender.

Starting HRT and coming to terms with what I am has caused the same effect.

I've started dressing more "metro," but not necessarily wearing girl pants or anything in public. I stopped cutting my hair, shave smooth as much as possible, and started acting and talking the way that seems natural instead of pre-planned and forced. Though I'm not sure if its that I *want* to do this exactly, but rather that I've stopped wanting to fit the role I never actually wanted.

I've stopped caring about how people perceive me too so I just started using my rudimentary female voice achieved through what therapy I've had. It confuses people and I get weird looks, but at least over phone and in drive-thru's I get ma'amed. Makes funny when I get to the store/pay in the drive through though. 

I think it's a perfectly normal thing to feel. Sounds cliche, but you're tired of hiding what and who you are both from the world and from yourself. It's not healthy to hide, and the positive psychological effects that come from being out only serves to create a cascading effect that furthers the process along.

[steph2.0]

Do you ladies have similar needs to push?  Is it a normal thing to feel?

Pushing the envelope is the only way to move forward. When I started HRT just over three months ago, I was terrified to even undo my hair inside my own house in case a neighbor looked in while going by. Yesterday I spent the afternoon walking around a high-end mall, shopping at Target, and buying a new name tag for my dog at Petco. Got ma'amed all day, too. The only way to do it is not just to take baby steps, but also to keep on walking. Every time you push, the next time is easier.

Go for it!

Steph

[Roll]

I'm definitely feeling the need to push more and more, even if only in tiny ways while I'm just still in this super early phase (it feels weird to say that and recognize I am still just starting, since the past two months have been the longest of my life). I know I'm going to get flak (joking, but flak nonetheless) from shaving arms and legs, but every time I go to shave everywhere else (ie: not visible areas) I just go a littttttle bit further down the legs, a littttttttle bit further down the arms.

[Bari Jo]

Thanks Steph and Izzy.  I think you are right, tired of hiding.  Izzy I love your using your new voice in public.  I want to practice now and start doing that.  I love goals that I can look forward to.  Wearing ladies jeans is very simple, even the slim and skinny ones.  I even wear them with ladies doc Martin's now.  Nobody has said anything.  Go for it.

Roll, I'm waiting for it to get all little cooler, then two bottles of Nair will take away all body hair below the neck.  Oh, can't wait.  Those bottles have been calling my name under the sink.

BTW, done, I'm ordering the pink ear buds.  Let people question my thought process, I'm just telling them I wanted the pink pair:)

Bari Jo

[Julia1996]

Get the pink earbuds. When I was little I was pink obsessed. I wore pink clothes, (gender neutral) had a pink bedspread and loved anything pink. I seriously doubt pink earbuds will raise any eyebrows.

[elkie-t]

I'm definitely feeling the need to push more and more, even if only in tiny ways while I'm just still in this super early phase (it feels weird to say that and recognize I am still just starting, since the past two months have been the longest of my life). I know I'm going to get flak (joking, but flak nonetheless) from shaving arms and legs, but every time I go to shave everywhere else (ie: not visible areas) I just go a littttttle bit further down the legs, a littttttttle bit further down the arms.

Shaving arms and legs ain't a big deal (done that several times - no reaction from any one, no reaction afterwards either). But sooner or later - your 'push' will stop being a push and will be recognized as a transition

[IzzyC]

Thanks Steph and Izzy.  I think you are right, tired of hiding.  Izzy I love your using your new voice in public.  I want to practice now and start doing that.  I love goals that I can look forward to.

I found all the little online guides I found horribly insufficient or not effective. I also need to have another person involved to ever learn anything, so I sought out a voice therapist.

Mine does it over skype, she has a youtube channel too and sings Tenor 1 and is trans herself. It's a tad expensive, but worth it I practice diligently all day when alone.

[Bari Jo]

But sooner or later - your 'push' will stop being a push and will be recognized as a transition

That is a good point elkie.  I don't want to push too hard just because we don't have gender neutral bathrooms at work.  If I'm not presenting as female, but people know I'm transitioning, it can cause problems I think.

Bari Jo

[KathyLauren]

I find myself wanting to push the envelope of the straight guy people are used to, all the time now.
...
Do you ladies have similar needs to push?  Is it a normal thing to feel?

Oh, yes, this is normal and healthy.  Like Steph said, if you don't push the edges of your comfort zone, you won't expand it.

Should I put my earring back in (hasn't been in for 20 years) Should I get my other ear pierced?

To the first, yes with caution.  To the second, yes.  Earrings are one of the easiest things to do.  Simple silver studs or gold rings are totally accepted on males, so they won't attract unwanted attention.  Yet they can really help you look feminine.  Use caution if you have not had a ring in that ear for a long time: the hole may have closed over.

I wouldn't say it's GD, since I'm not hating myself or in the guilt/shame cycle, but it is often like GD.

I would say it is GD.  Dysphoria doesn't mean you hate yourself.  It is quite common for it to manifest as an obsession with making progress towards transition.

[Roll]

Shaving arms and legs ain't a big deal (done that several times - no reaction from any one, no reaction afterwards either). But sooner or later - your 'push' will stop being a push and will be recognized as a transition

Oh trust me, around here it will be noticed and get a reaction. Not a hostile one by any means, but a "stop being weird" joking one. I am thinking about trying to turn it into a joke myself doing it slowly and at one point be like "I've been running an experiment to see how long it would take someone to notice. You have failed".

[Megan.]

That continual need to push further is one of the reasons I figured out going full-time would probably be right for me. Each time I took a step along the road,  the urge would always come back to take another,  until there was only one tiny little step left [emoji3]

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Laurie]

just do it

[Julia1996]

Oh trust me, around here it will be noticed and get a reaction. Not a hostile one by any means, but a "stop being weird" joking one. I am thinking about trying to turn it into a joke myself doing it slowly and at one point be like "I've been running an experiment to see how long it would take someone to notice. You have failed".

If people notice it just be a smart ass and have some fun with it. I shaved my legs the first time when I was 12. My dad noticed it but he just sighed and rolled his eyes. When my grandpa noticed it he asked me if I had shaved my legs. (Duh,they were smooth). I said " no, I waxed them". He told me no one likes a little smart ass and that in his day smart ass kids got the back of a hand. Lol. 

[elkie-t]

Oh trust me, around here it will be noticed and get a reaction. Not a hostile one by any means, but a "stop being weird" joking one. I am thinking about trying to turn it into a joke myself doing it slowly and at one point be like "I've been running an experiment to see how long it would take someone to notice. You have failed".

You can always say - I wanted to experiment how it feels and I like it and intend to continue doing it. Then challenge them if they have any problems with it.

I think having guts to admit what you did and asserting your ownership of your body (without unneeded lies or explanations) is a better approach than admitting your mistake and turning yourself into a joke

[Roll]

You can always say - I wanted to experiment how it feels and I like it and intend to continue doing it. Then challenge them if they have any problems with it.

I think having guts to admit what you did and asserting your ownership of your body (without unneeded lies or explanations) is a better approach than admitting your mistake and turning yourself into a joke

That is what I did when I removed the hair on chest the first time (saying I just wanted to see how it was), though I combined it with a joke about my (completely true) idiotic mistake of a second application of the cream leading to burning nipples. In general that is just how I am about everything, I don't make myself a joke but I deflect and find comfort in nervous actions by making (often poor) attempts at humor. (That's just sort of who I am, I had a dream of being a comic as long as I had a dream of being female. )

[Harley Quinn]

I don't really see it as "Pushing the Envelope".  It feels more like, "moving outside your comfort zone to find your authentic self".  Be proud, and keep exploring what the world has to offer. You're doing great! 

Just be cautious not to discount things that you like, just because its advertised gender specific.  If green is your color, go for it!  If Pink is more attractive to you, buy it.  I personally like green.  It's my color. 

[Bari Jo]

Just be cautious not to discount things that you like, just because its advertised gender specific.  If green is your color, go for it!  If Pink is more attractive to you, buy it.  I personally like green.  It's my color. 

I like green too, but my main GD trigger is facial hair.  I can't get that out of my mind.  I ordered pink.  I know I'll get ribbing about it, that's okay.

I'm glad others have this kind of issue too.  I'll accept that this may be GD, but it sure feels different to me.  I think acceptance probably has a lot to do with it.  Baby girl steps, eventually womanhood.

Bari Jo

[FinallyMichelle]

I don't really see it as "Pushing the Envelope".  It feels more like, "moving outside your comfort zone to find your authentic self".  Be proud, and keep exploring what the world has to offer. You're doing great! 

Just be cautious not to discount things that you like, just because its advertised gender specific.  If green is your color, go for it!  If Pink is more attractive to you, buy it.  I personally like green.  It's my color. 

Spot on with both points.

How can we get to Paris if we never leave our driveway.  Unless you live in Paris of course.

I love pink but it makes me look like I have the plague or something. My favorite night shirt is pink though. Blue works for me I think.

[JennyBear]

I wouldn't say it's GD, since I'm not hating myself or in the guilt/shame cycle, but it is often like GD.
Do you ladies have similar needs to push?  Is it a normal thing to feel?

    Gender dysphoria isn't limited to feelings of self-loathing. It can merely be a simple dissatisfaction with your outward physique and how it is perceived by others. Normal doesn't exist. What is normal for one, is weird, taboo, or just wrong for others. However that doesn't mean that you don't have that situation in common with many M2F's. YOU ARE NOT ALONE! Your feelings, fears, and emotions are valid for one simple reason. They are HUMAN emotions.

    Regarding your specific concerns: Doesn't hurt to do a little recon/research before making decisions that affect your income. Does your employer have any anti-discrimination policies? Is your immediate supervisor an ally, bigot, or neutral? What is the basic company stance and policy regarding attire and bathroom usage? And yes those two are separate, policy is an official rule, stance is how it is or isn't enforced.

    On the specific issue of earbuds, unless your employee guidelines specifically denote them as attire, its purely a matter of preference. You can choose any color you want as long if you are paying for them, and anything within any related guidelines if the company does. Your reason for the color can be as simple as "I liked it." You don't have to explain why. You have a right to privacy. This includes whether or not you shave your legs. No one has to know. As far as earbud color, I say go for the most obvious, girliest hot pink you can get. If someone notices it and comments, you can use that as a way to gauge their future reactions to any further changes you might make.

    It all boils down to your insight and judgement. If you feel unsafe regarding your employment, and actually love or need the job, proceed with caution. We don't currently have any Federal protections for employment, though that may change with the ADA court case. If you do feel safe, or the job isn't that important to you, do what makes you feel happy. Screw everyone else's opinion. Watch out for violent protests though. Stay Safe.

HUGS!