My face, my nose........ my nose, mostly............

[flytrap]

Something I did when I was going through my insecure phase:
I got a handful of shots of myself (different angle close ups, at the beach in my bikini, in the park wearing jeans and a couple nice outfits) and put them on one of those rank my photo sites. After a thousand or so votes I was surprised to see I got my share of "8's" and "9's," even a couple "10's" (Primary swore he didn't stack the ballet box The shots that didn't show how flat I was always did better but overall I came in at a just over a "6." Sort of the "blend into the crowd cute" I was hoping was the way people saw me.

This really helped my self image. I'm not uber girly or into makeup and I never kidded myself I was a beauty. It was good to find out how a group of people who had no reason to spare my feelings or inflate my ego saw me. Thinking about it this was probably a pretty extreme test. I mean most of the girls on the site are basically attractive- who posts their picture on a site like that for people to tell them they're ugly?

Anyway, beauty is alot more than how a person looks in a picture. Guys ask me out enough that I didn't think they thought I was ugly and probably because I am tall, people seem to assume I'm a model. I guess I'm sort of that tall skinny girl with the brown lob. The big shock was when Primary posted the same kind of shots of himself. He was kinda bummed that people only ranked him as a "4.25."

[rmaddy]

Why let others rate you?  If you get a low number, do you become less of a human being?  If you get a high number, do you become more?  Nobody has the right to objectify you in such a way, and asking them to do so suggests that you depend on others to make or break you.

It's inside you girl.  Own it.

[flytrap]

(I am assuming these question were addressed to me)

Why let others rate you? 

Other people rate us from the minute we are born. It is important feedback that helps us navigate the world.

If you get a low number, do you become less of a human being? If you get a high number, do you become more?

I do not think ratings affect a person's humanity.

Nobody has the right to objectify you in such a way, and asking them to do so suggests that you depend on others to make or break you.

Yes, that's another way to look at it.

It's inside you girl.  Own it.

That a great idea but it can take hundreds of hours of therapy and the best part of  a person's lifetime to overcome insecurity, particularly when it is related to childhood abuse. My opinion only matters inside my head. Finding out how other people see me really helped my self confidence.

[Allie24]

Perhaps that is something to consider.

I can say that a lot of my insecurities stem from my mother who was a overwhelmingly toxic influence on me, growing up. She would frequently gaslight me and use my own mental illness as a reason for why I was incapable of making certain decisions about who I was. I told her I was bisexual and she told me that I can't be because "she knew me," and "no one knows you better than your parents." I told her that my friends at school thought I looked attractive in makeup, she told me that they were lying to me. When I came out as trans, she thought that maybe my partner was manipulating me. She said the same thing about my friends in high school: she was convinced they were coercing me into bisexuality.

[rmaddy]

(I am assuming these question were addressed to me)
Other people rate us from the minute we are born. It is important feedback that helps us navigate the world.

While it's perfectly true that people rate (i.e. put a relative value on) you, it is a toxic behavior, and asking people to rate you on a 1 to 10 scale goes quite a bit beyond the normal, healthy desire for external validation.  "You look nice today" is validating.  I would argue that "You are a 9" is not, and is highly arrogant on the part of the person who says it.  Yes, I get that the "9" might feel good, but giving others that power in your life doesn't work out well in the long run.  Next thing you know, someone gives you a 5 and you feel all crappy about it.  That number never made you more or less valuable.  It might make you feel that way in the short run, but there are healthier ways to get on.

My opinion only matters inside my head.

Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"  --Albus Dumbledore

Finding out how other people see me really helped my self confidence.

You need and deserve validation.  It is best when it is spontaneous (i.e not asked for), detailed ("I like how you did your hair today," and from someone who actually has impact in your life (not a stranger on the internet).  At the end of the day though, the most enduring validation comes from inside yourself.  Is it really SELF confidence if it comes from random strangers?

[flytrap]

@ rmaddy
It might be worth thinking about why you need to be such a jerk about this? Some people have plastic surgery on their faces, boobs and genitals to find the enduring validation that comes from inside themself. Some people just put their picture on a rank my photo site. Everybody does what they need to do to get through their day. I'm not going to talk to you anymore about this.

@Allie24
I am sorry for highjacking your thread.

[Obfuskatie]

I think you look great as is [emoji6]

For me, the decision to get FFS wasn't hard at all, I knew that I wanted it, but I didn't want to look like any particular person or celebrity. It was more about saying goodbye to a reflection I had disliked most of my life. Yes recovery sucks, but it's survivable. To me, plastic surgery has allowed me to get rid of much of the burden when it comes to my social anxiety.

One thing that helps, in case you decide not to get surgery, cover your mirrors for a month or more. Making it so that you aren't able to examine and criticize your reflection, will also allow you to see more distinct changes during your transition. I know it's tempting to police yourself constantly so that randos don't clock you, but maybe our self esteem needs a vacation from our inner wardens at times.

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[CarlyMcx]

Allie, you do not have a big nose. You have a nose that I would pray to have after FFS.  I have a big nose, and it is pretty obvious in my profile picture.  My nose, seen from the side, has a downward hook at the bottom, the tip is asymmetrical, and I have a prominent bony protrusion in the middle.  My nose gets me clocked all the time, even though the hormones gave me a very nice looking little body.  Add to that my brow bossing, which is miles short of neanderthal, but still visible enough to contribute to the impression of maleness, and I need FFS to pass.

The only area I got lucky was my jawbone, which is unusually small to the point that my orthodontist had to pull out and throw away my second bicuspids when I was a teenager.

I am going to have FFS.  Hopefully Kaiser will be covering it by next year and I can still afford my crummy bronze Obamacare policy by then.     If not, then I am going to have to save my pennies for a few years in order to pay for the surgery. 

I am a trial lawyer; my face and my voice are my primary communications tools.  If I don't look and sound right, I can't win cases and my livelihood is gone.

[rmaddy]

I am a trial lawyer; my face and my voice are my primary communications tools.  If I don't look and sound right, I can't win cases and my livelihood is gone.

So what's your plan regarding voice?  I totally know where you are coming from.  I'm an ER doctor...if I don't sound confident/"in charge" my patients get unsettled.

[Colleen_definitely]

A voice coach did wonders for me.

Of course voice isn't as critical to my job, they just need me to do my science voodoo thing and sometimes a bit of teaching afterwards.  It is really fun to confuse the hell out of people at the drive through when in boy mode.

[rmaddy]

How long did it take you, Colleen?

I have made progress on my voice, but it just takes too much of my consciousness for me to maintain it at work.  I feel distracted from the task at hand, and I slip back down.

[Colleen_definitely]

I took five or six sessions over the course of two months, but the real progress was made practicing constantly on my own time.  I used the tools my coach taught me and started out practicing by reading those little golden books you may have had when first learning to read.  I found them to be perfect for practice at first since the real novels and technical documents I typically read had me worrying about pronunciation instead of focusing on pitch and inflection.  I just kept my pitch monitor app running on the phone and had my girlfriend critique when she could.

Progress was really slow at first.  I'd be lucky to make it through a paragraph without dropping.  I kept at it though.  The biggest progress for me was after coming out at home and being able to use EVERY conversation as a practice session.

Now that I'm about 4 months in I can reliably hold my voice at a good pitch.  While I'm a little under the magic 200Hz mark, I make up for it with inflection.  My range is still a bit limited and that's my current focus.

Dropping to guy voice is starting to be really annoying.  I pass on the phone quite well now, and never seem to get weird looks when out and about.  Well, save for boy mode since I stopped caring and let girl voice leak through.

[Roll]

the real novels and technical documents I typically read had me worrying about pronunciation instead of focusing on pitch and inflection.  I just kept my pitch monitor app running on the phone and had my girlfriend critique when she could.

One of the apps I've been using tests pitch over time with passages from Dorian Gray, so know exactly what you mean. It also doesn't help I spend half my concentration trying to do an old English accent while reading it. I'm going to wind up sounding like a time displaced British lady because of it.

[Colleen_definitely]

That's the same one I have.  Those passages are great for later, but at first you have WAY more to worry about than fashionably complex prose.

We might want to start a new thread to stop from derailing Allie's here.

[Charlie Nicki]

It also doesn't help I spend half my concentration trying to do an old English accent while reading it. I'm going to wind up sounding like a time displaced British lady because of it.

Lol!!



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[Allie24]

Does my forehead read as male? It's not unheard of for cis women to have some light brow bossing, but does mine even fit in the female range?

[Roll]

I'm not sure what the female range is, but your brow bossing seems very light if not practically non-existent(seriously, from the side view I see nothing), and your forehead in general has a slope that doesn't look masculine at all (which looking through pictures googling this topic tends to be the bigger issue it seems).

I just compared it with a picture of my uber-feminine sister and her brow is more noticeable than yours, so I'm guessing it is in the female norm?

Also, be less pretty you keep making me jealous. <3

[LadyGreen]

Yeah i'd kill for a nose like that, mine looks like it's been broken a few times and your forehead looks fine. Honestly i doubt i would know your trans if you hadnt posted on trans forum.

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[Izzy Grace]

I've been looking at women ALOT since I first saw this thread. Because of this thread, but also my own selfish facial wants.

I've seen all kinds of cisgender women. I also spent a lot of time looking at side profiles of women on google images.

I can say to you, that your brow fits into a feminine spectrum. BTW, I just love the safety pins in your ears.

The question is, I guess, what kind of female profile do you want? You've got the tiniest brow bump, but... I've seen that on alot of women. Are you looking for hyper-feminine... i am. You know, we want what we want.

I think if a person really knows and understands the risks and knows what they want and no one who loves them deeply is throwing up big red flags that person is going to do what will make them happy and thats ok. Theres risks, you know, I'm sure you already know.

I've said it befoire and I respect that it might not be enough for you, but... I've seen your facial profile and ones like it on a lot of cis women. I think you look great but I also think I know what you seem to want, me too.

You have to decide whats right for you.

[Izzy Grace]

Sorry for the double post, but look at a side profile of Francis Bean Cobain on google images, its all relative.