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Second coming

Started by Kaeren, December 10, 2007, 01:38:37 AM

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Kaeren


Does anybody know anything about a second coming of Christ ?  What kind of person it could be ? When it could happen ? If God is all, could it be that God is both male and female at the same time. And that a new Christ would reflect this idea also. Or is this blasphemy ?
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Nero

The bible says that God is neither male nor female. It is very likely that God made androgynes in His own image.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Wing Walker

Quote from: Nero on December 10, 2007, 01:40:51 AM
The bible says that God is neither male nor female. It is very likely that God made androgynes in His own image.

I agree with Nero. 

Does the Creator need to have a gender in order to create?  I think not.

I don't know how long the first books of the Bible were passed-on mouth-to-ear, but they were passed-down in a way that the people of the time could understand.

When the first books of the Bible were written down they retained that language.  God is the Father because the people of the time were a patriarchal society.  They were herdsmen, farmers, tradesmen, merchants, and barefoot and pregnant and not likely disposed to discussions of this nature.

God is, as I see it, male and female at the same time and yet neither gender at any time. 

I don't know how well children understand gender or the lack thereof.  Using a biological father as a model for the Creator makes it easier for young minds to understand. 

The Book of Revelation makes the Second Coming of Christ pretty clear.  Unless you're reading some translation of the Bible that deals in "revisionist theology" you will see a clear description of the Second Coming, how Jesus will arrive on Earth, and how he will rule.

I cannot imagine how discussion such as ours could be considered blasphemous.  We seek to understand a tiny bit of that which in its totality is not understandable while we live in this dimension:  our Creator.

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 04:06:05 AM
Quote from: Nero on December 10, 2007, 01:40:51 AM
The bible says that God is neither male nor female. It is very likely that God made androgynes in His own image.

Hi, Nero,

I believe that your information is taken from one of Paul's letters to the Corinthians in which he says that, "...in Christ there is neither male nor female, Greek nor Jew, slave or freeman."

IMHO, we are creatures *in* this world but we are not creatures *of* this world.  We are spirit beings and as such have no need for gender.  As long as we have our earthly bodies gender will be an issue, but in our spiritual existence, ain't no gender problems.

Therefore, we are all made in the image and likeness of the Creator.

Wing Walker
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Kaeren


Wing Walker,

Would it be fair to say then that the second coming might be neither male nor female but rather both at the same time or none at all ?  A transgendered one or something of the kind I mean ?  The book of revelation talks about a king of kings and a lord of lords. To me that sounds like a political leader. But I don't see anybody close to it. Some are close to the beast perhaps but none are close to the good side.

I think there is something in Matthew also but I can be wrong.

I also know that there should be a big war first.  I even suppose that some will make war simply for things to happen.  The war on terror.  The muslims. That is all religious. 

Kaeren
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tekla

So was the hundred years war (which in fact, lasted 135 years, they just lost count somewhere along the way) and what 7, 9 Crusades?  World War I (the War to End All Wars, followed very quickly by WWII).    Predicting a war in Europe is about as hard as guessing where the sun is going to come up tomorrow - I'm betting in the east, and setting in the west.  The longest period that Europe has gone without a major war is, well, now.  The period from 1946 to 2007.

And all sorts of people have claimed to know, but none of them has been right so far, so much doubt is in order.  At the very least.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Kaeren

You think world war 3 is busy now ? Irak, .... I can easily imagine that escalating in a complete worldwide disaster. Also in Europ.  The religious symbols ( Italy ) being attacked first perhaps as a revenge for attacking Irak ???

I'm just guessing. Europ has a lot of muslims within the population itself by the way. France has probably over 30 % ( I can be wrong ) and Brussels is one and all muslim. I don't feel safe at all. I walked there on the streets 2 hours ago.  With a computer, this computer I'm using now, in my hands. On the street.



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cindianna_jones

My interpretation of John the Revelator is that he was smoking Myhr or something. ;)  I find almost all that he wrote to be very difficult to interpret since they were non literal visions.

My doctrinal understanding (from the Mormon perspective from which I have been cut off), is that Christ will be a man, the literal son of God (who is also male).

My personal view is that the second coming of Christ will be a period of peace that we the people can initiate when ever we want to.  The principal message of Christ was peace and love. THAT is HIS essence. That's all we have to do.... quit bickering and fighting... and start helping those in need.  I don't know of anyone else who shares my view of this.  But  it is consistent with a broad understanding of the scriptures, a mediocre knowledge of history, and falls in line with my current beliefs.

Cindi
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Nero

Quote from: Kaeren on December 10, 2007, 01:44:17 PM

Wing Walker,

Would it be fair to say then that the second coming might be neither male nor female but rather both at the same time or none at all ?  A transgendered one or something of the kind I mean ?  The book of revelation talks about a king of kings and a lord of lords. To me that sounds like a political leader. But I don't see anybody close to it. Some are close to the beast perhaps but none are close to the good side.

I think there is something in Matthew also but I can be wrong.

I also know that there should be a big war first.  I even suppose that some will make war simply for things to happen.  The war on terror.  The muslims. That is all religious. 

Kaeren


I'm confused. Are talking about Jesus or the Anti-christ? The anti-christ could be already among us.
I believe Jesus was/is androgyne.  He came as a man because of the times.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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tekla

To compare Iraq with WWII is to not understand.  WWII had some 80 million - 80 MILLION - dead.  We are nowhere near that, despite the fact that the Iraq war has now gone on even longer.

I just don't see that god is going to come down to bail us out, if that is the hope of the second coming.

There are plenty of people who claim to know, but no one's been right yet.

FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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lisagurl

I figure that it has been here forever, another dimension, just no one can detect it.
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tekla

"The anti-christ could be already among us."  I'm voting for Dick Cheney myself.

Then again this is this view:

Look out your window, baby, there's a scene you'd like to catch,
The band is playing "Dixie," a man got his hand outstretched.
Could be the Fuhrer
Could be the local priest.
You know sometimes
Satan comes as a man of peace.

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue,
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung.
Good intentions can be evil,
Both hands can be full of grease.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, first he's in the background, then he's in the front,
Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt.
Nobody can see through him,
No, not even the Chief of Police.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun,
Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton.
He could be standing next to you,
The person that you'd notice least.
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull,
He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull.
I can smell something cooking,
I can tell there's going to be a feast.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

He's a great humanitarian, he's a great philanthropist,
He knows just where to touch you, honey, and how you like to be kissed.
He'll put both his arms around you,
You can feel the tender touch of the beast.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl,
Trees that've stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall.
Wanna get married? Do it now,
Tomorrow all activity will cease.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Somewhere Mama's weeping for her blue-eyed boy,
She's holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he's following a star,
The same one them three men followed from the East.
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Nero

Quote from: tekla on December 10, 2007, 03:17:10 PM
"The anti-christ could be already among us."  I'm voting for Dick Cheney myself.

Rofl! Ha ha I love it!
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Wing Walker

Quote from: Nero on December 10, 2007, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: Kaeren on December 10, 2007, 01:44:17 PM

Wing Walker,

Would it be fair to say then that the second coming might be neither male nor female but rather both at the same time or none at all ?  A transgendered one or something of the kind I mean ?  The book of revelation talks about a king of kings and a lord of lords. To me that sounds like a political leader. But I don't see anybody close to it. Some are close to the beast perhaps but none are close to the good side.

I think there is something in Matthew also but I can be wrong.

I also know that there should be a big war first.  I even suppose that some will make war simply for things to happen.  The war on terror.  The muslims. That is all religious. 

Kaeren


I'm confused. Are talking about Jesus or the Anti-christ? The anti-christ could be already among us.
I believe Jesus was/is androgyne.  He came as a man because of the times.

Hi, Nero,

I took Kaeren's question to mean the Second Coming of Christ.  The Book of Revelation says that *He* is the *Son of God* and will return here on a cloud, in splendor, with an *iron rod* that He will use to rule His flock.

Again, John was a man of his times and his work has been translated more times than we know.  A father's authority had primacy and the laws of primogeniture assured that all material wealth was inherited by male children while the family lines were kept by the female children.  They had no property rights.

Humanity has included androgynes since the beginning.  John wrote in and for a world of binaries and gender was one of them.

As for the antichrist, I believe that it can be a person, an organization, a belief, an attitude, or a conglomeration of things.  Whoever brings the foretold peace to the world is one to watch closely.

I surely see Dick Cheney and the cabal being great candidates for the position but I must add others from even earlier times, thus my mind is open to people and things. 

The prophecy says that Jesus will return to shepherd His flock with an iron rod.  That tells me that he will be the leader of all and that politics will be a thing of the past.

Thank you for hearing me out.

Wing Walker

Posted on: December 10, 2007, 07:15:52 PM
Quote from: tekla on December 10, 2007, 03:17:10 PM
"The anti-christ could be already among us."  I'm voting for Dick Cheney myself.

Then again this is this view:

Look out your window, baby, there's a scene you'd like to catch,
The band is playing "Dixie," a man got his hand outstretched.
Could be the Fuhrer
Could be the local priest.
You know sometimes
Satan comes as a man of peace.

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue,
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung.
Good intentions can be evil,
Both hands can be full of grease.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, first he's in the background, then he's in the front,
Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt.
Nobody can see through him,
No, not even the Chief of Police.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun,
Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton.
He could be standing next to you,
The person that you'd notice least.
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull,
He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull.
I can smell something cooking,
I can tell there's going to be a feast.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

He's a great humanitarian, he's a great philanthropist,
He knows just where to touch you, honey, and how you like to be kissed.
He'll put both his arms around you,
You can feel the tender touch of the beast.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl,
Trees that've stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall.
Wanna get married? Do it now,
Tomorrow all activity will cease.
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Somewhere Mama's weeping for her blue-eyed boy,
She's holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he's following a star,
The same one them three men followed from the East.
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.


Right on, Tekla.

Wing Walker
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Wing Walker

Quote from: redfish on December 10, 2007, 07:19:14 PM
I think it's a little ethnocentric to assume that the antichrist would be American

Yes, it would, Redfish,  There are so many people, beliefs, things, acts, omissions, cabals all over this world that it would be somewhat unjust to not include Mr. Cheney as part of the antichrist.  Vladimir Putin might balance the ticket.

Wing Walker
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NicholeW.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on December 10, 2007, 02:07:44 PM
My interpretation of John the Revelator is that he was smoking Myhr or something. ;)  I find almost all that he wrote to be very difficult to interpret since they were non literal visions.

My doctrinal understanding (from the Mormon perspective from which I have been cut off), is that Christ will be a man, the literal son of God (who is also male).

My personal view is that the second coming of Christ will be a period of peace that we the people can initiate when ever we want to.  The principal message of Christ was peace and love. THAT is HIS essence. That's all we have to do.... quit bickering and fighting... and start helping those in need.  I don't know of anyone else who shares my view of this.  But  it is consistent with a broad understanding of the scriptures, a mediocre knowledge of history, and falls in line with my current beliefs.

Cindi

Yeah, Cindy, those myrrh smokers are a truly bad lot!! The only folks hold a candle to them are the frankincense-eaters!!!  ;D ;D

Very nice post.

__________

From a Nichole-ian perspective, St. John the Divine was writing about the rather nasty 13-year rule of a man named Domitian as Roman emperor. He was the son of Vespasian and the bother of Titus, both of whom were instrumental in crushing the 60s revolt of the Jews. That was when Jerusalem was literally destroyed and the Temple with it and Jews were scattered afterwards.

The facts fit perfectly and the fact is that all Jewish "prophecy" was actually more a form of social criticism rather than a 'prediction of the future.' Our ideas about prophecy are sorta different these days.

Of course, I have a kinda jaundiced view of most Christian doctrine, although I really like most Christians I meet. I simply believe that our peace is always right where we are sitting, lying-down, standing, running, squatting or walking right this very moment. *smile*

Just a matter of discovering it within myself and settling into it. If ya wanna tell the future though. I recommend an omen-hunter.
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Pica Pica

Anyone heard that song John the Revelator, can't remember who did that.
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tekla

The above, Devil comes as a man of peace, is, of course, bob dylan.

There are two versions of John the Revalator, one by Depeche Mode

John the Revelator
Put him in an elevator
Take him up to the highest high
Take him up to the top where the mountains stop
Let him tell his book of lies

John the Revelator
He's a smooth operator
It's time we cut him down to size
Take him by the hand
And put him on the stand
Let us hear his alibis

By claiming God - As his holy right
He's stealing a God from the Israelite
Stealing a God from a Muslim, too
There is only one God through and through
Seven lies, multiplied by seven, multiplied by seven again
Seven angels with seven trumpets
Send them home on the morning train
Well who's that shouting?
John the Revelator!
All he ever gives us is pain
Well who's that shouting?
John the Revelator!
He should bow his head in shame

By and by
By and by
By and by
By and by

Seven lies, multiplied by seven, multiplied by seven again
Seven angels with seven trumpets
Send them home on the morning train
Well who's that shouting?
John the Revelator!
All he ever gives us is pain
Well who's that shouting?
John the Revelator!
He should bow his head in shame

By and by
By and by
John the Revelator
By and by

John the Revelator
By and by
John the Revelator

The other, by the Blues Brothers, John Cougar Mellencamp and a killer version by Warren Haynes with Gov't Mule was done in the original by Blind Willie Johnson

Well who's that a writing? John The Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.

Tell me what's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.

Now who art worthy, crucified and holy
Bound up for some, Son of our God
Daughter of Zion, Judea's Lion
He redeemed us, Jesus bought us with
his blood

Now tell me who's that a writing? John The
Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.

Well what's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.

Well Moses to Moses, Watching the flock
Saw the bush where they had to stop
God told Moses pull off your shoes
Out of the flock, a well a you I choose

Now tell me who's that a writing? John The
Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
Who's that a writing? John The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.

Well what's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
What's John a writing? Ask The Revelator
A book of the seven seals.


The version on The Blues Brothers soundtrack, with Mavis Stapels, Taj Mahal and the Staple Singers is drop dead awesome.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Shana A

The two most amazing versions I've heard of John the Revelator were sung by Blind Willie Johnson in the 1920s and by Son House in the 60s.

y2g
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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tekla

I think that Johnson recorded that in the 1930 session, or so my record says.  Aside from Led Zep stealing "In My Time of Dying" from him whole cloth - he called his "Jesus Make Up My Dying Bed" I am very fond of "Dark Was the Night, Cold Was the Ground" which I think went up into space as one of the songs on Voyager.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Pica Pica

Blind Willie Johnson, that's the one I got. With his growly voice and the lady's sweetish one. Good song.
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