Reasons for Detransitioning or not transitioning

[Sophia Sage]

There is only one reason I wouldn't have transitioned -- if I wouldn't have been able to elicit impeccably correct gendering.

[extraaction]

There is only one reason I wouldn't have transitioned -- if I wouldn't have been able to elicit impeccably correct gendering.

I detransitioned for four months, bound my chest, stopped my feminizing and hormone balancing protocol, and grew out a litle beard.

I knew it was a limited time, but I wanted a really good temporary oil field job that paid well.  It didn't cause as much dysphoria as possible, but I was happy stop when the job ended

[Virginia]

Thank you for quoting the DSM-V study, Paige. That is high a fidelity number from a reputable source, and the 1.5% figure is in line with other published statistics for DID. I too speculate there is a large uncertainty in reported data. Much like the pressures and fears that keeps transgender people in the closet, the stigma associated with "being crazy" keeps many people from being "out" about their mental illness. It is dangerous to extrapolate any study, but with 20-25% of transgender people in Canada and the United States identifying beyond the gender binary (ie non-binary/genderqueer. See "Transgender-inclusive measures of sex/gender for population surveys: Mixed-methods evaluation and recommendations NCBI, 2017. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5444783/ ) the actual number of transssexuals would be even lower than the reported 0.6%.

"Childhood Antecedents of Multiple Personality Disorders," by Kluft et al is a classic reference that will answer many of the questions you mentioned on Dissociative Identity Disorder. My two psychologist mentioned 10 years as the average length of therapy for a person with DID and my trauma therapist explained I was "quick" to begin recovery of my memories of trauma. DID is a disorder of secrecy; the victim's life depended on hiding what they were doing. The International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation (ISSTD 2011) reports that people spend between 5 and 12 years in the mental health system before receiving a correct diagnosis for their DID. Twenty Eight percent of patients are not even diagnosed until they are in their 40's or later (Kluft et al).

There is no question that people with DID who have cross gender symptoms are a better group to compare with the transgender population. I cannot find formal published statistics or anything to suggest patients with cross gender symptoms are a small piece of the DID population. The literature widely reports it is "common" for people with MPD/DID to have opposite gender alters in their systems. PsychForum.com mentions that about 50% of the members of their DID forum have male/female alters (See https://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic6652.html ). Personally, everyone I have met with DID over the last 9 years has had male and female alters.

I recognize some transgender people find my experience to be unsettling. It is the reason I have taken to using trigger warnings and posting in the Non-Transitioning and Detransitioning forum. Members continue to trivialize my experience and accuse me of making anti transgender arguments when I have never, in any of my posts, done anything besides talk about the things that happened to me. But that does not make what I have to say any less important for people looking for answers about why they may need to express themself as another gender. Or make the things that happened to me any less real or painful.

~VA

[kayla1618]

This story almost stopped me from starting....

https://4thwavenow.com/tag/mtf-detransition/

But a few days later I just said screw it, Im not getting any younger.
I know what I want, and Im not gonna let some guys 'cult/trauma' experience deter me.

And I told myself that if I end up de-transitioning out of regret, or failure to pass, well who the hell cares. 
At least my life will have been a ton more interesting than the average human.

[Virginia]

An amazingly powerful read, kayla1618, thank you for sharing. The author's story does not apply to everyone but the articles on the parent site are an excellent resource for someone who is wondering if detransitioning or not transitioning is right for them.

[Roll]

This story almost stopped me from starting....

https://4thwavenow.com/tag/mtf-detransition/

But a few days later I just said screw it, Im not getting any younger.
I know what I want, and Im not gonna let some guys 'cult/trauma' experience deter me.

And I told myself that if I end up de-transitioning out of regret, or failure to pass, well who the hell cares. 
At least my life will have been a ton more interesting than the average human.

I stumbled into this thread somehow, not really sure how, and read that link on a whim. It was not what I was expecting, and find myself torn between feeling the author has a good point on a few issues while at the same time feeling as though he has lost sight of the larger world due to his own experiences. Note that this reply isn't to the thread in general, but more specifically that article.

I'd wager the overwhelming majority of us do not find ourselves in anything resembling a cult scenario as described by the author of that piece. Quite the contrary, many of us live in areas actively hostile to transition. That the author found himself in such a circumstance speaks to a larger issue than transitioning regret, and says a lot about the author more than anything else.

Having said that, I do feel that he is right to warn people of being cautious about certain group think scenarios, even if I believe he said this in a very poor manner. Unfortunately, I do believe that the modern political movement built around identity, both sexual and gender, has gotten out of hand in some respects, and while is empowering to many can be stifling and destructive to some who are vulnerable to the influence of ideological demagogues. Yet at the same time, the author fails to own up to the fact that he is the one who joined a commune! If you are joining a commune, any sort of commune, you are expected to conform to a certain level of groupthink. That is how they survive, everyone must be on the same page. And it sounded like he was ripe to be taken advantage of, in ways well beyond transitioning. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that transitioning is such an extreme thing to fall into in such a way, he was doomed in some form from day one even if it wasn't the ideology he found himself a part of. (To put it another way, he seems like he's the kind of person who would join ISIS. And I'm not being facetious at all.)

So yeah, group think is bad. Conforming to peer pressure and letting it dictate your life is bad. It's certainly something to keep in mind when one makes life changing decisions. And while there are some issues to be aware of when it comes to the cultural politics of being trans(for instance, I do tend to share some of the same fears about the cis/trans divide), the trans aspect of his story is basically completely circumstantial, and it sounds as though he would have done almost anything to fit in, in whatever community he wound up in. One man's malleability, in an environment of conformation, does not invalidate hundreds or thousands of us who find ourselves fighting against conformity to our own respective environments in order to be who we are. In short: For him, trans was the easy path. For most of us, it's anything but. You could even say his argument about not being led astray by local goup think can be used in favor of transitioning when placed in the context of most people.

[PidgeTPN]

I'm not sure if this is "detransitioning" in my case, but for the forseeable future I've stopped taking T. Why? Because right now my self-esteem is so low about my body and being on T made it worse. Because I hate how round and fat my face looked on T. I'm currently overweight and working on losing it, which hopefully after this baby (my second) is born I'll find it easier to get it off and leave it off since I have more support now and people willing to work out with me.

Once I'm in a better mental state when it comes to my body, and after top surgery, I'm going to try again I think. But at the same time, I LOVE how my face looks now. I know that if I'm still not happy after 6-12 months after T this next time I can stop and go back to a point I was happy with. I hate nearly everything about my body regardless of male or female, but I love my face. If I hate my face while on T, can I truly be happy with the rest of myself?

[Another Nikki]

I stumbled into this thread somehow, not really sure how, and read that link on a whim. It was not what I was expecting, and find myself torn between feeling the author has a good point on a few issues while at the same time feeling as though he has lost sight of the larger world due to his own experiences. Note that this reply isn't to the thread in general, but more specifically that article.

I'd wager the overwhelming majority of us do not find ourselves in anything resembling a cult scenario as described by the author of that piece. Quite the contrary, many of us live in areas actively hostile to transition. That the author found himself in such a circumstance speaks to a larger issue than transitioning regret, and says a lot about the author more than anything else.

Having said that, I do feel that he is right to warn people of being cautious about certain group think scenarios, even if I believe he said this in a very poor manner. Unfortunately, I do believe that the modern political movement built around identity, both sexual and gender, has gotten out of hand in some respects, and while is empowering to many can be stifling and destructive to some who are vulnerable to the influence of ideological demagogues. Yet at the same time, the author fails to own up to the fact that he is the one who joined a commune! If you are joining a commune, any sort of commune, you are expected to conform to a certain level of groupthink. That is how they survive, everyone must be on the same page. And it sounded like he was ripe to be taken advantage of, in ways well beyond transitioning. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that transitioning is such an extreme thing to fall into in such a way, he was doomed in some form from day one even if it wasn't the ideology he found himself a part of. (To put it another way, he seems like he's the kind of person who would join ISIS. And I'm not being facetious at all.)

So yeah, group think is bad. Conforming to peer pressure and letting it dictate your life is bad. It's certainly something to keep in mind when one makes life changing decisions. And while there are some issues to be aware of when it comes to the cultural politics of being trans(for instance, I do tend to share some of the same fears about the cis/trans divide), the trans aspect of his story is basically completely circumstantial, and it sounds as though he would have done almost anything to fit in, in whatever community he wound up in. One man's malleability, in an environment of conformation, does not invalidate hundreds or thousands of us who find ourselves fighting against conformity to our own respective environments in order to be who we are. In short: For him, trans was the easy path. For most of us, it's anything but. You could even say his argument about not being led astray by local goup think can be used in favor of transitioning when placed in the context of most people.

My take is similar- weak willed, unable to take personal responsibility for his choices and in need of serious long term therapy.

[Virginia]

My take is similar- weak willed, unable to take personal responsibility for his choices and in need of serious long term therapy.

So easy to say as an Monday morning quarterback.  I see the author as a model of inspiration, a strong willed person who faced with adversity and against tremendous odds, won a victory beyond human nature.

[Roll]

So easy to say as an Monday morning quarterback.  I see the author as a model of inspiration, a strong willed person who faced with adversity and against tremendous odds, won a victory beyond human nature.

While I respect the fact that he overcame the conditioning he experienced, however it came to be, a model of inspiration doesn't say something like this:

"This leads me to believe that, by and large, trans is a disingenuous ideology that is a current mass hysteria. It is also clearly something of an unintentional eugenics program against gender nonconforming folk. "

He bases this belief on his own experience, which was an experience created by his own weakness--regardless of if he overcame that weakness (which again, is commendable on its own). And it was also an experience that, quite simply, does not apply to the overwhelming majority of trans people.

He then goes on to say:

There are infinitely better ways to deal with the universal experiences of dissatisfaction and desire to be someone else.

This is just flat out insulting... I don't want to be someone else, I want to be myself.

Again, I say this from the perspective of also taking issue with some of the politically charged aspects of the modern movements. I certainly don't defend the Marxist radical communes he found himself subject to (which for anyone who believes in them, I do not begrudge them that in the slightest, but I am a classical liberal at heart).

Reiterating the bottom line: His personal experiences in a situation of his own making does not invalidate countless other people's legitimate experiences. Respecting his ability to come back from that situation to a life he is happier and healthier in is all well and good, but his vitriol towards others disqualifies him from being a model of inspiration in my book.

[Christy Lee]

i decided 11 years ago, THAT my living circumstances werent great, my life circumstances werent great, and didnt always hear the nagging voices enough so i decided to live my life as a boy or try to be fairly androgynous and also Asexual,  which worked for sometime but its starting to work less and less, as im less preoccupied with other life crap now and the nagging is becoming more i think ...


11 years later, my living circumstances are a little better, my life circumstances maybe worse, but im working to improve that, and the nagging def gotten worse.... *sigh*

[dmj23]

for me it is just that I keep finding ways to deny myself. I guess I need to trust myself. But I don't know really how to when everyone says I shouldn't even those who are lgbt say I am not real. Maybe it's my own little weird secret idk. But I am way too far deep in other issues to deal with this even though things have gotten better over the years I know it's just not a good time right now.

[Northern Star Girl]

@ sneakersjay: IMHO detransitioning would seemingly be a more difficult and more life changing decision than transitioning in the first place.... it seems to me that it would be a mine field of emotional and relationship problems, not to mention the wear and tear on your physical body.
Hang in there girl.

[ChrissyRyan]

Is it correct to assume that detransitioning means to actively reverse or hide the results of transitioning, even including undoing any reversible transitioning surgery, taking opposite hormone medicines, and reversing all associated changed-to gender behaviors?

This is contrasted to stopping the transitioning process, and if the original transitioning body changes revert "naturally", so be it? 

Chrissy

[virtualverny]

there is only one reason why i detransitioned. it was that i was moving schools and i didn't want to be seen as a freak. but the fact is, being trans doesn't make me an outcast or a weirdo or anything; it makes me VERNY, and in pretending to not be myself i'm making myself an outcast, not from my community or group of friends but from my own mind, yknow? i'm glad i'm starting again, and over the next week, i should legally become a mr. life's a far cry from how it was over three years ago googling 'transgender' alone in my room. 

[BeckyCNJ]

Hi Jay,

I can't speak to anyone else's situation but I am something of an expert on my own. I have chosen not to transition. There are several reasons, in approximate level of importance.

-  I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.
-  I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.
-  I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.
-  If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.

This being said, it's a struggle, but I think with some support medically and from a therapist, I can go on. I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die. If I were to reach that point I would transition and have told my wife that.

I also believe if I were a teenager or in my 20's today, I would likely transition. Back in the '70s information was hard to come by and acceptance was even more difficult than today.

Becky

[Northern Star Girl]

@ BeckyCNJ:   Very well stated.  I can understand your reasoning for not transitioning given the personal reasons that you mentioned.

No pressure to answer but I am just wondering, do you cross-dress or do you sometimes operate in stealth mode?   Does your wife know of any of this at all?

Wishing you good luck and happiness in your life path. 

[Paige]

Hi Jay,

I can't speak to anyone else's situation but I am something of an expert on my own. I have chosen not to transition. There are several reasons, in approximate level of importance.

-  I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.
-  I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.
-  I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.
-  If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.

This being said, it's a struggle, but I think with some support medically and from a therapist, I can go on. I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die. If I were to reach that point I would transition and have told my wife that.

I also believe if I were a teenager or in my 20's today, I would likely transition. Back in the '70s information was hard to come by and acceptance was even more difficult than today.

Becky

Hi Becky,

Interesting post.  I find it useful to use your criteria.

-  I am happily married and believe transitioning would destroy my marriage.

Yes for me too until recently but being trans has put a strain on it.  I'm on low dose E.  If I continue my marriage will be over.

I've had a successful career, part of which is closely associated with being male (voiceover), and I'm not sure how I would make a living as a female.

My career doesn't really depend on being male.  I'm not sure how it will go being transgender.

-  I'm 61 years old and feel that if I could make it this far, I should be able to get to the finish line with some help.

I'm 55 and I really doubt I can get to the finish line as a man.  This is haunting me too much.

-  If I were to present as female I would want to do so convincingly. I have my doubts how successful I would be at this point.

Except for my hair, I feel I could be somewhat convincing.  Even on low dose E, it's amazing the changes I've seen.

I've never felt suicidal so it hasn't been a question of transition or die.

Unfortunately I have many days where I wonder if I can go on.   I don't know what's on the other side.  Hopefully these feelings would go away if I transitioned but I may be just signing up for new problems.


Anyway, thanks for the exercise
Take care,
Paige

[BeckyCNJ]

No pressure to answer but I am just wondering, do you cross-dress or do you sometimes operate in stealth mode?   Does your wife know of any of this at all?

I do not cross-dress, but I would like to try in privacy and with the help of an understanding person. I certainly have worn women's clothing in the past but it was my mother's (when I was a kid) or my wife's and we were not the same size so it looked a bit clownish. Having no experience on what to do I was not happy enough with the results to go in public, except on Halloween. My wife does know I'm tg and she's supportive up to a point, but dressing as a woman probably would be going too far.

[rainification]

Thank you so much. I'm planning on coming out to my mum and she keeps trying to tell me trans people can't be happy. I needed this...