Were you made to conform as a child?

[PurpleWolf]

As the headline states:
Were you made to conform as a child? To what extent? Or were you allowed to freely express yourself through clothing & toy choices?

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Personally, I have a pretty horrible experience that not many ftms can relate to, I guess... I was NEVER allowed to have anything "boyish", not boy clothes, any accessories, hats, caps, toys.... Dinosaurs, toy cars, radio-controlled vehicles, even "boy legos" were off the list ! I did gravitate towards male things... only was never allowed to have any . I was mainly given dolls... I was alright playing with "girl toys" and I didn't hate them or anything... But this traumatized me a bit because I always had to hide a part of my true personality . Whenever I got something that in my mind read even remotely "boyish" I felt ecstatic. Once I was allowed to pick the color for my new pants to go with a new jacket - they were unisex I guess. The options were: red, yellow, green and dark blue. Since I was (for once!) given a choice, I immediately picked the blue ones though I've never liked the color blue particularly. But I chose them because I knew that would be the "boy choice" of them! And my mom plus the store clerk (also a woman) tried their absolute everything to make me change my mind and choose another color ! Can you believe that...? But I kept my mind because they told me I could choose the color...

At one Christmas I wished for a walking & roaring T-Rex I admired at a store. I talked about it all the time. I was so excited when finally Christmas came. Guess what I got? A Baby Born... That broke my heart . Instead of crying or acting out I just felt numb and didn't pay any attention to the doll. I wasn't giving them that satisfaction! But the point was made clear. I wasn't allowed to have anything so-called "boyish". After that I didn't even ask for any, I think... I just admired the (boy) toy commercials and felt bitter and angry inside that I couldn't get any of them ... (I had a very strict upbringing & was shamed if I ever expressed a desire to get something from the other department...)

So, I've always compared my experience to that of mtfs!

I even struggled with this childhood history as I transitioned at the age of 13. (As soon as I started buying my own clothes, I soon started to wear more masculine things... and pretty soon after that transitioned.) I felt "I wasn't really trans" because I never had that "typical tomboy childhood" . It really, really bothered me. But in retrospect I would have liked to wear boy clothes and also play with boy toys, had I been given the opportunity.

I never hated playing with dolls, either, so even if I had been born biologically male, there's a chance I might have played with girl things too. If that had been the case, you can only imagine what my childhood would have been like then ! As a boy I certainly would have not gotten a single girl toy either because even as a girl I wasn't allowed any boy things!

But now I'll never know. There's a chance that if I had been given free hands, I might have been the so-called "tomboy" after all!

Btw, I don't think there are any "girl toys" or "boy toys" - just toys! But this experience surely was traumatic... If you ever have children, please let them have whatever they like !

[Deborah]

My childhood was exactly the same in reverse.  Even any hint of any feminine inclination was openly ridiculed and absolutely no girls' toys were even in the house.  I was not even allowed to have a GI Joe because, "dolls are for girls."  I remember that quote explicitly.  I became very adept at hiding my feelings and being what everyone else wanted.  Even now I find that ingrained part of my persona very hard to get away from.


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[Elis]

Gender norms weren't really strictly enforced for me as a child. I was given Barbies and my brother an Action man but we both showed no interest in dolls. I was allowed to play with boys and toy guns. I remember when I was around 6 or 7 my brother was given a battery powered toy quad bike for xmas while I was given a pink barbie scooter even though my parents knew I hated barbies and never showed an interest. That shocked me a bit and made me upset and angry. It also gave me the first inkling that boys and girls were different somehow and had different expectations. I never liked going near that scooter unless I had too. My brother had more use out of it than me

[PurpleWolf]

My childhood was exactly the same in reverse.  Even any hint of any feminine inclination was openly ridiculed and absolutely no girls' toys were even in the house.  I was not even allowed to have a GI Joe because, "dolls are for girls."  I remember that quote explicitly.  I became very adept at hiding my feelings and being what everyone else wanted.  Even now I find that ingrained part of my persona very hard to get away from.

I can so relate to this! I grew up with the feeling that that part of my personality is somehow "wrong". Something I struggle with even to this day. Somehow I feel it would be "better" if I just was a girl. Or accepted myself as a girl/woman or whatever... That "being a boy" or "wanting to be a boy" is somehow wrong or worse than being a girl... That being a woman is somehow "better" than being a man  . That being a guy (and dressing up as one) is something inherently "bad"... though all the men around me are allowed to be that way just fine. Even when it comes to clothing... I sometimes have this peculiar inadequate feeling that dressing up in women's clothes/dresses/skirts/shoes etc. would be somehow "better" than dressing up in guy clothes, like suits, pants etc...

Like, if women and women's clothing was somehow superior to men's... ? And being "just" a man somehow inferior... 

[Michelle_P]

Interesting topic!  I was born in 1953, so I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s.   Conformity was EVERYTHING!

My parents were doing shift work when I was 5-6 years old, and one of the neighbors would watch me.  They had two daughters a few years older than me, 9 and 12 if I recall correctly.  Mom was parked in front of the TV, and the daughters actually took care of me.  They actually treated me like a life-size doll, dressing me and applying makeup.  I didn't mind at all (big surprise, huh?).  Their mom finally caught on, talked to my parents, and that ended.  I was moved from public school to parochial school to provide a better influence.

I caught on about conformity pretty quickly there.  Hanging out with the girls on the playground resulted in my being taught a 'lesson', where I had to spend recess for a week sitting on the 'punishment bench' near the school doors to the playground, wearing a uniform skirt.  I didn't mind that, but the abuse from other students was fierce.  Other incidents and a few broken yardsticks brought me 'in line'.

High school was worse.  I was sent to an all-male school, which unfortunately had two pedophiles on staff.  That was highly unpleasant.  Locker room was the worst, as I was very slight in build, and had not started puberty at age 14-15.  (DES son...).

I found out that for 25 cents the bus would take me into San Francisco.  I made some new friends there in 1968 in the Tenderloin and Haight-Ashbury, dressing fairly androgynous leaving home, and changing tops in a restroom as soon as I got to SF.  (My hair then looks like my avatar, sort of a light brown/honey, down to almost my shoulders.  Quite femme in the current vernacular!)  I eventually got caught and had the experience of a sort of conversion therapy to 'fix' me.  That included testosterone injections so I'd 'grow up right', as my Dad told me.  Counseling from the parish priest for a few years, too. [emoji849]

Folks really prized conformity over anything else in that period.



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[PurpleWolf]

pink barbie scooter ?!?! Christ !

Talking of gender norms.....!

[PurpleWolf]

Interesting topic!  I was born in 1953, so I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s.   Conformity was EVERYTHING!

My parents were doing shift work when I was 5-6 years old, and one of the neighbors would watch me.  They had two daughters a few years older than me, 9 and 12 if I recall correctly.  Mom was parked in front of the TV, and the daughters actually took care of me.  They actually treated me like a life-size doll, dressing me and applying makeup.  I didn't mind at all (big surprise, huh?).  Their mom finally caught on, talked to my parents, and that ended.  I was moved from public school to parochial school to provide a better influence.

I caught on about conformity pretty quickly there.  Hanging out with the girls on the playground resulted in my being taught a 'lesson', where I had to spend recess for a week sitting on the 'punishment bench' near the school doors to the playground, wearing a uniform skirt.  I didn't mind that, but the abuse from other students was fierce.  Other incidents and a few broken yardsticks brought me 'in line'.

High school was worse.  I was sent to an all-male school, which unfortunately had two pedophiles on staff.  That was highly unpleasant.  Locker room was the worst, as I was very slight in build, and had not started puberty at age 14-15.  (DES son...).

I found out that for 25 cents the bus would take me into San Francisco.  I made some new friends there in 1968 in the Tenderloin and Haight-Ashbury, dressing fairly androgynous leaving home, and changing tops in a restroom as soon as I got to SF.  (My hair then looks like my avatar, sort of a light brown/honey, down to almost my shoulders.  Quite femme in the current vernacular!)  I eventually got caught and had the experience of a sort of conversion therapy to 'fix' me.  That included testosterone injections so I'd 'grow up right', as my Dad told me.  Counseling from the parish priest for a few years, too. [emoji849]

Folks really prized conformity over anything else in that period.

Michelle_P, that sounds absolutely HORRIBLE !!!!! What can I say?!
Well, I guess I now understand where my upbringing stems....... I have really old parents, they are older than you...

I feel so, so sorry for you  ! Hope you somehow got through all that? A lot of counseling??

[Elis]

pink barbie scooter ?!?! Christ !

Talking of gender norms.....!

Yep it looked as horrific as it sounds 

[Tessa James]

Interesting topic!  I was born in 1953, so I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s.   Conformity was EVERYTHING!

My parents were doing shift work when I was 5-6 years old, and one of the neighbors would watch me.  They had two daughters a few years older than me, 9 and 12 if I recall correctly.  Mom was parked in front of the TV, and the daughters actually took care of me.  They actually treated me like a life-size doll, dressing me and applying makeup.  I didn't mind at all (big surprise, huh?).  Their mom finally caught on, talked to my parents, and that ended.  I was moved from public school to parochial school to provide a better influence.

I caught on about conformity pretty quickly there.  Hanging out with the girls on the playground resulted in my being taught a 'lesson', where I had to spend recess for a week sitting on the 'punishment bench' near the school doors to the playground, wearing a uniform skirt.  I didn't mind that, but the abuse from other students was fierce.  Other incidents and a few broken yardsticks brought me 'in line'.

High school was worse.  I was sent to an all-male school, which unfortunately had two pedophiles on staff.  That was highly unpleasant.  Locker room was the worst, as I was very slight in build, and had not started puberty at age 14-15.  (DES son...).

I found out that for 25 cents the bus would take me into San Francisco.  I made some new friends there in 1968 in the Tenderloin and Haight-Ashbury, dressing fairly androgynous leaving home, and changing tops in a restroom as soon as I got to SF.  (My hair then looks like my avatar, sort of a light brown/honey, down to almost my shoulders.  Quite femme in the current vernacular!)  I eventually got caught and had the experience of a sort of conversion therapy to 'fix' me.  That included testosterone injections so I'd 'grow up right', as my Dad told me.  Counseling from the parish priest for a few years, too. [emoji849]

Folks really prized conformity over anything else in that period.



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OMG Michelle that sounds eerily familiar.  Early on I was cared for by my older sister and named Tessa by her as we played together.  I recall asking my mom if they had sown my genitals on for some reason and quickly found out how forbidden such topics were.  Parochial schools, broken yardsticks, longing to be with the other girls at recess and constant punishment for being that sissy.  Then the boys military school to straighten me out and seminaries so that i would become a priest.  Mom knew me and I theorize that she considered the priesthood a safe place.  Ha ha that's where i noticed other sissy boys.  But we all know the rest too well.  A girls line, a girls place, boys clothes and strict segregation or we might engage in what?  Having fun was rather suspect.  I was so happy to meet other queer people as a 17 soldier.

People here often speculate about how our life might have been as our identified gender.  I had five sisters and seven brothers.  My sister's lives were far more circumscribed with multiple restrictions while the "boys" could run around and even encouraged to just get out of the house.  I had the benign neglect that allowed for more freedom to develop on my own.  All part of what gives us some depth of character and coping skills for today?

[PurpleWolf]

I'm suddenly so happy I didn't grow up in that time period.....! At least I didn't have to endure that ->-bleeped-<-! Must've been horrid...

[Deborah]

I'm suddenly so happy I didn't grow up in that time period.....! At least I didn't have to endure that ->-bleeped-<-! Must've been horrid...

Plus there were only three TV channels and they all went off air at 10:00 pm every night.



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[PurpleWolf]

Plus there were only three TV channels and they all went off air at 10:00 pm every night.

Ha ha ha,  !

[Complete]

I was not *forced* to conform. I did so because l believed it was best to wait until I could actually DO something about what really mattered, my body. Clothes,  toys, friends, gender roles, (if l knew what those were), had little relevance to my needs. What mattered to me was having the right body. I knew that would take time. Throwing tantrums or hating my parents was counterproductive. That was how l saw things then.

[Charlie Nicki]

I was bullied in school for being a "sissy". And I remember my mom scolding a couple of times for wanting to play with dolls, or putting a shirt on my head and pretending it was long hair. Little by little I realized being myself and openly sharing what I liked wasn't accepted. I knew I was different but didn't know what it was. And kinds would call me sissy, f**got and all sort of names for being who I was. It was traumatic and I felt very lonely. So I conformed as a survival strategy, my parents didn't really "push" me to do anything masculine besides my mom being upset a couple of times because I always wanted to be the girl in every game. So I learnt to be embarrassed about my femininity. Now that I think about it, I probably still have some of that embarrassment deep down.


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[amandam]

My dad caught me and my sis playing dress up. I was about 6. One of the worst spankings I ever got. I didn't dress up again until about 13.

[PurpleWolf]

My dad caught me and my sis playing dress up. I was about 6. One of the worst spankings I ever got. I didn't dress up again until about 13.

There's something seriously wrong with some people! Makes me angry... Let the kids play, for god's sake!

[Thea]

Several of these posts hit a nerve. I grew up in the 1960's and 1970's. Conformity was the only acceptable behavior and I hated it.

The beatings by parents and teachers, the ridicule and bullying by the other kids, that all happened to me too. I was not even allowed to participate in art or theater in school because my dad felt it was too effeminate. Even though we were Protestant in my family, I was sent to a Catholic high school because, "those Jesuits will know how to make a man out of you."

It was all so much a part of my life that I believed there was something really wrong and perverted with me. It took me a long time to come around and accept myself as I am. I'm much happier now.

[PurpleWolf]

I was not even allowed to participate in art or theater in school because my dad felt it was too effeminate.

I can't believe this  ! As if many artists and dancers etc. weren't male... In my school was a boy who gave a solo dance performance in front of the school. The whole school laughed at him though he danced pretty well! Made me so angry  !!!

I personally can't get it why this is such an issue to all people! After all, every human has different likes and dislikes and a personality. Has nothing to do with your genitals. So, why is it SUCH a big deal to everyone if a kid wants to play with a doll or a car? Why? To me there has never been a problem. Toys are just toys. I once read that playing with plastic animals was considered inappropriate for a girl in Tanzania - because, after all, herding is a "boy's job"! So there. It has nothing to do with gender. And everything to do with cultural baggage. And plain stupidity.

When my nephew was 1-year-old her mom bought him a plastic shovel. He was allowed to pick the color and he picked a bright red one. My sister wondered it was weird he didn't automatically pick the blue one. Retarded!!!

Let's just say I was hoping this subject would gather more those happy-go-lucky gender-non-conforming childhood experiences... I'm shocked at what I hear!

[Allison S]

When i was about 2 my mom dressed me in an orange floral outfit. My sisters keep telling her "why would you dress a boy in orange floral?". Little do they know the boy is actually a girl. I really dont get why they're so bothered i looked cute either way!

And yeah ive always been feminine.. I only ever played with barbies with my sister. I always wanted to do everything my sisters did growing up even though i had a brother too.

I even liked belly dancing when i was 5 and my mom would want me to show her friends but i was too shy. And of course now i still love to dance lol



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[Sno]

Child of the 70's reporting in, with more horror stories of conform or face the wrath. At home, it was/is a background of persistent homo/trans phobia, complete with the usual disgusting commentary that goes along with it.
Thankfully my primary had no uniform at that time, so lots of floral shirts were worn, as were other colours, outside of blue/black/grey of drab. I was a member of the local theatre group, but knew that I would be judged on appearance (I was 7 for crying out loud), and had (what I believe to be my first), panic attack when preparing for a fancy dress carnival float. Couldn't do it, had a complete meltdown, and vowed never to do 'fancy' dress again.
We moved shortly after to a small conservative village, where my shirts were wrong (childhood taunts) the school was rigid about uniform, I was a foreigner, had a different accent, and was shunned -especially after I'd completed all of the extension materials the school had with nearly 2 years left to go. As a consequence I was the target for the bullies, and ridicule. Secondary was worse, communal showers, enforced by PE teachers, yard sticks broken, and a handy plimsole in every classroom for the unruly, when a board rubber wouldn't do.
Rigid enforcement.
I sat alone for 7 years. I secretly dressed with borrowed clothes I opportunity presented, was borderline eating disorder, and took every opportunity to escape.
The story at home was equally challenging. Achieve or be damned. Conform or face the 'consequences', of anger, and a very real threat (sometimes followed through) of physical violence.
Do as I tell you, do as your told, don't do that, were mantras of the day.
To the extent that I didn't choose my subjects at school, and wasn't allowed to choose my career (in one job, my father resigned on my behalf, because no son of his was going to spend his life doing that) - was packed off to university, and promptly had a breakdown, but I had to finish my studies of course.

I've been trying to work out what I am ever since. I'm currently in therapy to try to deal with the mess - it was literally conform or be outcast. You choose.

Secretly I'd love pushing my brother in the pushchair (big age gap), but nothing that could even be vaguely considered feminine was brought into the house, let alone as a gift. Ever.

All aspects were gendered, and actively policed.

And yes, I still love the theatre and Ballet - I'd love to get back out riding again


Rowan