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Were you made to conform as a child?

Started by PurpleWolf, November 19, 2017, 09:15:35 AM

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Michelle_P

Quote from: PurpleWolf on November 19, 2017, 10:42:46 AM
I'm suddenly so happy I didn't grow up in that time period.....! At least I didn't have to endure that ->-bleeped-<-! Must've been horrid...
Sometimes folks here wonder why older transitioners didn't come out and transition at a young age.   This stuff is why.  Back in 1968-9, Dr Harry Benjamin was applying the early versions of his treatment protocols successfully, with HRT, affirmative therapy, and surgeries.  This was NOT the standard of care yet, and most therapists and medical facilities cling to the old ways, trying to "cure" us when we came out or were caught.

The cure basically scared me into the closet for a long time. With lots of therapy I am better now. The assistance in processing this, and my determination to be brutally honest with myself has been very helpful.

Now back to the stories, please. This is an interesting topic, comparing changes over the years!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Complete

I guess I must have been lucky.  When l presented for care, l was offered a full medical transition program on my first visit. I started hormones that  day, had srs roughly one year later and took almost a year to recover. Never looked back.😃😆
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Stevie

 
  I wanted to take dance lessons and piano lessons and I bugged my mom for weeks till she let me take piano lessons, I did not take dance as my dad said he would never let one of his sons take dance lessons. I was so happy to be able to have the piano lessons, then after about a month my dad put a stop to them because he said they were making me into sissy.
I went to a friends birthday party when I was about 8 years old, I was the only boy she invited. It was so much fun none of the girls treated me different and I could just be myself.  Afterwards when I got home I was physically and verbally assaulted by my older brothers. When I went back to school the next week kids started teasing me and following me around calling me names what made it more painful was that some of them were girls that were at the party, I started crying and it got worse and some of the boys punched me.  Once kids know they can make you cry you are going to be harassed all the time.   I tried to avoid being around the other kids after that and pretty much just shut down socially. 
 
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PurpleWolf

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 19, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
The cure basically scared me into the closet for a long time.

I can believe that!

Quote from: Michelle_P on November 19, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
With lots of therapy I am better now.

I'm so glad to hear that! Keep your head high  :D!

I had one encounter with medical professionals at the tender age of 14... (Like I said - I came out as trans at 13) And they basically made me believe all this was crazy (that I said I was a boy). It was a very brief thing - BUT it almost did make me go crazy because only after that encounter I started to question my sanity... Like "if those professionals think I'm deluded, then what if I am???" This bothered me for a very long time in the back of my mind - though the feeling of being a boy never left me. My family did manage to force me to present as a girl for a short time after that incident... But I only felt like I was a guy in drag, wanted to die, and never did that since. But the idea that "maybe I am crazy after all" is a scary one.....! Considering when I first realized I was trans and came out it was a very natural thing for me and felt like nothing. Only after that medical incident I started to question whether there was something "wrong" with it! The whole thing also made me hate mental health professionals in general...

This is just to say that if such a brief incident as that made me question my sanity for years after - I can only imagine what kind of harm a real "conversion therapy" can make! 

That is also why I severely hate the gatekeeping model... Where I live it's well in place... and one of the reasons I haven't transitioned medically yet...... I understand that some type of counseling may be beneficial to figure out your gender and everything - but gatekeeping is NOT that. Gatekeeping is NOT a form of counseling - it's an outdated transphobic procedure where you have to *prove* you are something. In my mind I compare it to having to "prove" you are gay - if you imagine you needed some treatment or medication for that. How can you prove someone of your personality etc.?!?!? To me it's abhorrent - and I wouldn't like to submit myself to some SCID-tests etc. some inhumane treatment. Just my personal opinion. I just don't like the idea.

*Oh, caught myself ranting again  >:-)*

I'm glad I signed in here after all, :)!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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Devlyn

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Julia1996

These stories are so sad. I can't even imagine going through those things. When I first joined this site I had read a couple peoples stories about being forced to conform, being physically assaulted by parents and even being mistreated by siblings. I thought those were just isolated incidents. After being here a little while I realized that was pretty much common among trans people and that my experience was unusual. It amazes and totally saddens me that being trans can generate such hate. Even from someone's own family.

I was never forced to conform. My dad was always extremely tolerant of my very feminine behavior.  I was allowed to wear gender neutral clothes in the colors I wanted. About age 7 my dad just stopped trying to take me for haircuts because I had such awful fits over it. I was never into dolls. For me it was teddy bears. I got many of them over the years. I now have about 150 teddy bears. My uncle and grandpa gave me boy stuff for Christmas and birthdays though. I would throw them in the trash. I got in trouble a few times for that. I was never whipped as a child. Neither was my brother. My dad doesn't believe in hitting children. I think maybe because my grandpa whipped my dad so much growing up. When I was 14 I started wearing mascara and eyebrow pencil. I talked my dad into letting me wear it by telling him it made me look  more normal to color my snow white eyelashes and brows. Around that time I also started wearing black or blue nail polish.

After I started wearing the eyemakeup my grandpa and uncle started telling my dad he needed to do something to try and "fix" me. Lovely suggestions such as having a Dr put me on testosterone and growth hormones so I wouldn't be " scrawny and small". It amazes me how so many people think testosterone will "cure" a MtF.  That is just totally stupid. My uncle also suggested sending me to military school. Though my family isn't religious conversion camp was also suggested. Thank god for me my dad wouldn't listen to any of that crap. My older brother has also always been accepting of me.

I now realize my experience is not common among trans people. I got extremely lucky with my dad. Seeing how my grandpa is , my dad could easily have gone the other way. I think because his dad is so totally intolerant of anyone he considers "deviant" or a minority, that made my dad tolerant instead.  There's really no way to say it nicely, my grandpa is a mean, nasty racist. My dad said one of the most severe whippings he ever got was for having one of his friends in the house. The friend was African American. After the guy left my grandpa told my dad he never wanted to see a ## in his house again and whipped my dad with a belt. It's really miraculous my dad is the way he is having had such an ignorant, small minded father. I do realize how extremely lucky I have been. If my dad was like my uncle and grandpa my life would have been a living hell. I probably would have ended up with severe psychological problems.
Julia


Born 1998
Started hrt 2015
SRS done 5/21/2018
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big kim

I was born in 1957, all kids conformed, I  wouldn't have known how not to. By the late 70s I'd long hair & ear rings but being a biker in a fisherman's town no one took any notice.
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PurpleWolf

Quote from: Julia1996 on November 19, 2017, 05:05:54 PM
These stories are so sad. I can't even imagine going through those things. When I first joined this site I had read a couple peoples stories about being forced to conform, being physically assaulted by parents and even being mistreated by siblings. I thought those were just isolated incidents. After being here a little while I realized that was pretty much common among trans people and that my experience was unusual. It amazes and totally saddens me that being trans can generate such hate. Even from someone's own family.

I was never forced to conform. My dad was always extremely tolerant of my very feminine behavior.  I was allowed to wear gender neutral clothes in the colors I wanted. About age 7 my dad just stopped trying to take me for haircuts because I had such awful fits over it. I was never into dolls. For me it was teddy bears. I got many of them over the years. I now have about 150 teddy bears. My uncle and grandpa gave me boy stuff for Christmas and birthdays though. I would throw them in the trash. I got in trouble a few times for that. I was never whipped as a child. Neither was my brother. My dad doesn't believe in hitting children. I think maybe because my grandpa whipped my dad so much growing up. When I was 14 I started wearing mascara and eyebrow pencil. I talked my dad into letting me wear it by telling him it made me look  more normal to color my snow white eyelashes and brows. Around that time I also started wearing black or blue nail polish.

After I started wearing the eyemakeup my grandpa and uncle started telling my dad he needed to do something to try and "fix" me. Lovely suggestions such as having a Dr put me on testosterone and growth hormones so I wouldn't be " scrawny and small". It amazes me how so many people think testosterone will "cure" a MtF.  That is just totally stupid. My uncle also suggested sending me to military school. Though my family isn't religious conversion camp was also suggested. Thank god for me my dad wouldn't listen to any of that crap. My older brother has also always been accepting of me.

I now realize my experience is not common among trans people. I got extremely lucky with my dad. Seeing how my grandpa is , my dad could easily have gone the other way. I think because his dad is so totally intolerant of anyone he considers "deviant" or a minority, that made my dad tolerant instead.  There's really no way to say it nicely, my grandpa is a mean, nasty racist. My dad said one of the most severe whippings he ever got was for having one of his friends in the house. The friend was African American. After the guy left my grandpa told my dad he never wanted to see a ## in his house again and whipped my dad with a belt. It's really miraculous my dad is the way he is having had such an ignorant, small minded father. I do realize how extremely lucky I have been. If my dad was like my uncle and grandpa my life would have been a living hell. I probably would have ended up with severe psychological problems.

Yeah, sometimes mistreated children grow up to be very tolerant adults, :D! I'd like to include myself in that group,  :D! Though I wasn't that mistreated. Anyway, you can always decide for yourself what kind of person you are going to be! Glad to hear your dad has been so awesome! Sorry, but your other relatives don't sound that awesome then...!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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Laurie K

My stepfather caught me making  a cup motion on my chest ...he then proceeded to do the worst makeup job on me and parade me around as his daughter .....it was the bad makeup job that gave me the most humiliation.  I was 6... when I was seven he caught me stuffing my shirt....He held a knife to my " shenis "and asked me if i really wanted to be a girl he could do that for me right then. So ya I guess I was made to conform... the human garbage is dead now ...




The ball is now rolling....I hope it doesnt run me 0ver
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PurpleWolf

Quote from: Laurie K on November 19, 2017, 06:07:29 PM
My stepfather caught me making  a cup motion on my chest ...he then proceeded to do the worst makeup job on me and parade me around as his daughter .....it was the bad makeup job that gave me the most humiliation.  I was 6... when I was seven he caught me stuffing my shirt....He held a knife to my " shenis "and asked me if i really wanted to be a girl he could do that for me right then. So ya I guess I was made to conform... the human garbage is dead now ...

I'm SO sorry to hear that  :o!!!!!! Man, each story is more horrible than the previous one...! We could put up a competition of the worst childhood experiences...!!! I guess I opened a pandora's box with this one... If trans people weren't so depressed & isolated & lonely contemplating suicide - we might be the most compassionate people in the world with those experiences! Hope everyone can get rid of the bitterness and everything and have an access to good counseling! You guys really need it!!!

This is a bit like a trans "metoo" campaign  :D!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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amandam

In the earlier generations here, it was normal to be spanked. It was also normal to make fun of and be disgusted by those "perverted ->-bleeped-<-s". They were freaks, perverts, dirty, immoral, ->-bleeped-<-s, queers, and etc. No normal parent would want their kid to be one of those. Since this was the de facto societal belief, you can see why they went to extremes. That's not excusing them, but it was their reality.
Out of the closet to family 4-2019
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Lisa_K

I'm going to have to chime in here with a little mythbusting and an alternate tale from the dark ages. I've come to realize my childhood experiences were pretty unique or otherwise, I wouldn't be taking the time to share them here.

I missed being born in 1954 by two days. I was raised in Ohio and Arizona, neither of which was a bastion of liberalism or progressiveness. I was forced to conform as in doing what I was told, not  talking back and having to eat yucky vegetables and foods I hated but what was not policed was my personality, manner, behavior or interests which were 100% atypical for boys of the day.

Certainly I was encouraged toward masculinity and given every opportunity to express myself in that fashion but it just wasn't in my nature which was recognized early on and nothing was ever forced on me at least after my parents separated when I was five and a half. Prior to that, my dad was a Marine that fought in the Korean war that just couldn't handle having a sissyboy son that only wanted to play with dolls and have tea parties and failing to make me into the little man he wanted, he took off instead.



As an only child that spent much of my early childhood on a farm, I was well aware of the physical differences between males and females but I didn't really understand my place in all of this until I started kindergarten where being male or female translated into being either a boy or a girl. Finding out I wasn't the girl I'd always thought I was did not make me very happy to say the least. Right out of the gate, I was teased and bullied and didn't really understand why or what for nor did I know what to do about it. I just was who I was. Who else could I have been? I didn't know why I had to dress in boy's clothes or why I couldn't have long hair and pigtails too. I was a very serious and sullen child.

At home with my mother and grandparents, things were as they should have been. I was not teased for my femininity but it was frequently pointed out that some of the things I did or the way I was would be by others but I simply didn't care because I knew no other way to be. I had a lot of nurture catered to my nature. I helped out in the kitchen more than in the barn and my grandmother taught me to do needlepoint and cross-stitch. After the 2nd grade, I was allowed to start growing out my hair and by the 3rd grade, was breaking every rule in the book. As I got a little older, I graduated from baby dolls to Barbies,  EZ-Bake ovens and drawing and painting. Other than the dumb clothes I had to wear that I always felt uncomfortable and awkward in, my home life, hobbies and interests were pretty much like any other girls.

Naturally, none of this did much to help my social standing. In fact, school was quite the disaster. By the time I was 10 years old (1965) my parents, now mother and step-father put me in therapy. None of this was to change me or make me into something I wasn't. It was more to deal with the way I was treated and ostracized for being different.

By the time I was in the 7th grade (1967), I had been to 12 or 13 different schools trying to find one where I didn't come home bloody or crying or where I wasn't the one asked to leave because my presence was deemed to be disruptive. This was kind of ironic considering I was shy, quiet, introspective, kept to myself and never bothered anyone.

7th grade though is when things really started taking off. When the new school in a new state wouldn't let me attend because my hair was well below my shoulders, my folks got a lawyer and threatened to sue. Then like my 2nd day of class, I was expelled for fighting a PE coach that tried to make me go into the boy's locker room. My parents took me to a psychologist and a psychiatrist and got me out of that too and I really became the ultimate social pariah.

We didn't know anything about being trans. Who did in the 1960's and certainly none of the many doctors I had been taken to had a clue either other than to tell my parents I was "probably gay". All I knew and had ever known that I was a girl and that was why things has always been so difficult for me. It didn't really make any sense.

When I was 15 during my sophomore year in high school (1970), an act of extreme, life-threatening homophobic violence proved to the turning point. None of this would have happened if I had been able to live my life as a girl rather than some queer androgynous freak of nature and I let it be known to my parents that I was going to become a girl and that there was no way in hell that I was ever going to grow up to be a man. To them, this was more or less old news and came as no surprise but in 1970, there wasn't a whole heck of a lot that could be done about it. I was able to get my ears pierced, my brows shaped and shave my legs and already with long pretty blonde hair, by the time I was 16 outside of school I was regularly and consistently getting gendered as a girl which made going to school where I was known by a boy's name all that much more worse. We still didn't have words for all of this or a name for it. It was just the way I grew up to be.

By the time I was 17, I was really in distress, hated life, hated my body that had begun to turn against me, wanted to quit school and never leave my room and became deeply depressed and suicidal. My folks had found a doctor 150 miles away in another city they wanted to take me to but I resisted. I'd been seeing damn talk doctors since I was 10 years old and they were all stupid and the whole thing was a waste of my time not to mention embarrassing. Sensing though that I was really in trouble, I agreed to go.

After talking to this guy for about 15 minutes, he told me I was clearly and obviously transsexual. A what? I had heard the word but didn't really think it applied to me. I was nothing like Christine Jorgensen. He sent me off to be evaluated by a psychologist (that I hated) and a psychiatrist and on my next visit with him, in 1972 before my senior year of high school, I was put on HRT. Finally I knew what was wrong that had explained where I'd been and gave me direction to where I was going.

I finished out my senior year of high school... somehow? By the time I graduated in 1973, my hair was almost to my waist and my breasts were impossible to not notice. The week after I got my diploma, my mom and I went to the DMV to get my ID changed and that was pretty much it. I had found a normalcy in my life previously unknown. As icing on the cake as they used to say, I had SRS several years later and have had just an average but pretty great life in spite of it all getting off to a bit of a rocky start.

So, I did conform as a child but not to the expectations of society or my peers but only to myself and what I knew myself to be. I even learned to like (most) vegetables! :)
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Dee Marshall

Like many others in this thread I grew up in the 60' and 70's. I was born and raised in Michigan, a bastion of liberal thought, not!

I can't actually say whether I was forced to conform or not because I remember very little of my childhood. Because I don't remember, I suspect that I was.

I was the same type of quiet, withdrawn child that many of the rest of you report being.

I truly wish I knew.

:

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!

Think outside the voice box!

April 22, 2015, the day of my first face to face pass in gender neutral clothes and no makeup. It may be months to the next one, but I'm good with that!

Being transgender is just a phase. It hardly ever starts before conception and always ends promptly at death.

They say the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. I say, climb aboard!
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Lady Lisandra

I'm not sure. As a kid I played mostly with gender neutral toys, like legos. And swords. That was definitely not gender neutral, but I still like them. I was a fan of star wars and loved my lightsabers. My parents didn't care that I was't fond of cars and played mostly with the girls at school.

At secondary school for some reason I'm not sure of I tried to comform. I got a group of male friends and would go out with them. Still, my closest friends were all female. They sometimes forgot I was a guy and talked about things like  menstruation when I was around. I rememer them saying "you're already another girl in the group".
- Lis -
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Tessa James

#34
Purple Wolf you are the catalyst to a pretty heavy thread.  Thank you!

Since the Transgender Day of Remembrance is tomorrow we can also put our personal stories in context.  We are the living and, for the most part, successful people who made it for another day and another life.  Another perspective is from our ability to see progressive change over time in action.

Your commentary about better times now is spot on.  Things are changing for the better.  I meet newly out people who identify as transgender every week at our Q Center.  I hear from friends, family, coworkers and allies during presentations about people who identify as transgender.  We have had 8-16 yo people come in with their parents and once with their entire family as their supporters.  It often blows me away to hear stories here and in real life from very young people who have had that support and who have the ability and determination to claim their identity so clearly.  I hope you are proud of yourselves too. 

And those of us who waited or coped as best we could so very long?  Well I don't know about you but, I love every little change and the feeling my dreams and shadow girl are now real.  We set ourselves free!

It feels we have entered a time when use of social platforms and knowledge of us, this tiny minority, are now household information.  Hardly any brave souls came out in the 50's.  Now we are gaining that critical mass of awareness that can lead to learning and self acceptance.

We can hope fewer of us will experience the hatred and harm that can too often result in internalized phobias, fear and self loathing.  History has lessons for us and I greatly appreciate the sharing that can help us all be more empathetic and compassionate about different times and lives. 
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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PurpleWolf


Listening music here and this just started:
Mikey Dread - Break Down The Walls

lyrics here:
https://www.jah-lyrics.com/song/mikey-dread-break-down-the-walls

Dunno if you like reggae but this is pretty appropriate here xDDD! Check if you like!

And here is a great insprirational video:
What's your excuse? by Nick Vujicic (The guy who was born without arms or legs!)

Highly recommend!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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PurpleWolf

Quote from: Lady Lisandra on November 19, 2017, 08:34:04 PM
I rememer them saying "you're already another girl in the group".

That must have felt great  ;D!
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
  •  

PurpleWolf

Quote from: Tessa James on November 19, 2017, 08:35:25 PM
We can hope fewer of us will experience the hatred and harm that can too often result in internalized phobias, fear and self loathing.  History has lessons for us and I greatly appreciate the sharing that helps us all be more empathetic and compassionate about different times and lives.

I feel it's really great children are allowed to transition! To all those haters who say the parents are "pushing" them (btw they should really read this thread about "pushing"...!), what can I say...! Obviously outsiders have a problem if some family just decides to accept their child as is and lets that kid dress and play the way she/he likes. How bad must that be for the said child's psyche...! What we've experienced is so much better - right?

I don't accept any kind of violence towards a child. Really no age or era is an excuse for abusing your child. All violence towards adults is criminilized - so why do people think it's ok to abuse the imbalance of power and beat a helpless child?! Some people promote it as healthy or normal - usually they say it's appropriate at least towards smaller children! WTF?! The smaller the child - the greater the power imbalance - shame on you battering parents!

Wtf is wrong with the world when people deny a child some stupid toy but think physical violence is ok?! Don't get it, just don't....
!!!REBIRTH=legal name change on Feb 16th 2018!!!
This is where life begins for me. It's a miracle I finally got it done.


My body is the home of my soul; not the other way around.

I'm more than anything an individual; I'm too complex to be put in any box.

- A social butterfly not living in social isolation anymore  ;D -
(Highly approachable but difficult to grasp)


The past is overrated - why stick with it when you are able to recreate yourself every day
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CarlyMcx

Quote from: Deborah on November 19, 2017, 11:23:33 AM
Plus there were only three TV channels and they all went off air at 10:00 pm every night.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only three TV channels?  We had seven when I was a kid.  But I remember the test patterns if you switched the TV on too early in the morning.
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bobbisue

  I grew up in the sixties and seventies while I wasn't abused the expectation was boys do boys things no girl things at school we had the boys door and the girls door the playground was split as well the first time I even heard of transgender was on Jerry Springer In the back of my mind I  was a little envious but kept it buried for another 20+ years

  Deborah you must have grown up in the city we had 2 choices until I was 10 on or off

    bobbisue :)
[ gotta be me everyone else is taken ]
started HRT june 16 2017              
Out to all my family Oct 21 2017 no rejections
Fulltime Dec 9 2017 ahead of schedule
First pass Dec 11 2017
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