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A common misconception about what being transgender is about

Started by hiddengirlsheila, November 25, 2017, 08:40:20 PM

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RobynD

I try to educate as I can and if there is real interest, refer them out to various sources of info. (including this sites great Wiki). It does get hard at times. Recently, there have been several incidents where friends have totally said the wrong thing and it made me sad.

I tend to write off religion. I do realize it still has influence on western culture, and consider myself spiritual myself, but science is science and sociology is a science. (among others that intersect with us). I don't believe it has a place in it at all.

In my opinion the "bundling" of other identities etc.,  under the same umbrella is a good thing. There is safety in numbers and we tend to gain more acceptance as a group.



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Kylo

I initially thought so myself about 4 years ago. But I've since noted the increase in confusion surrounding just what a "trans person" is, and some of that I'm fairly convinced is down to the large numbers of groups now being associated with the term.

I think if a term has to have an asterisk after it because people feel it requires several footnotes to explain everything that comes under it (as was being done a lot a couple of years back) or end up having to explain in detail every time anyway, it could probably use being split into a few different terms.

I find myself frequently having to explain the difference between someone who undergoes medical transition and life as the opposite gender and someone who does not have dysphoria, does not transition and does not live as the opposite gender because both are lumped together, only to have the common response "well why are they called the same thing, then?" So much so I've started using the word transsexual exclusively to describe myself and separating those who do not suffer dysphoria and do not undergo medical transition as a separate group with differing needs or concerns.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Miss Clara

Quote from: Viktor on November 29, 2017, 07:04:30 PM
I initially thought so myself about 4 years ago. But I've since noted the increase in confusion surrounding just what a "trans person" is, and some of that I'm fairly convinced is down to the large numbers of groups now being associated with the term.

I think if a term has to have an asterisk after it because people feel it requires several footnotes to explain everything that comes under it (as was being done a lot a couple of years back) or end up having to explain in detail every time anyway, it could probably use being split into a few different terms.

I find myself frequently having to explain the difference between someone who undergoes medical transition and life as the opposite gender and someone who does not have dysphoria, does not transition and does not live as the opposite gender because both are lumped together, only to have the common response "well why are they called the same thing, then?" So much so I've started using the word transsexual exclusively to describe myself and separating those who do not suffer dysphoria and do not undergo medical transition as a separate group with differing needs or concerns.

I've come to the same conclusion, Viktor.  It's not that the various subgroups under the transgender umbrella don't matter to me, it's just that it's so hard for cisgender people to understand what it means to be transgender.  It helps to change the hearts and minds of people if we can articulate a consistent, coherent explanation that they can relate to their own experience.  Like it or not, I don't believe there is a single explanation for the breadth of the transgender experience.

I don't automatically agree that we are better off sticking together as a single community in our common goal to achieve recognition and legitimacy.  People do see the differences among those calling themselves transgender, and their attitudes vary depending on those perceptions.  This shouldn't be surprising, we are a diverse group.

As I see it, the major point of contention is the difference between our views about sex and gender.  Cisgender people are used to thinking of sex and gender as synonymous.  The transgender community has worked hard to separate sex and gender on the one hand, while conflating them on the other depending on what we are trying to accomplish.  For example, we argue that existing laws barring discrimination based on sex also includes gender identity, while at the same time insisting that gender identity is independent of biological sex when seeking access to sex segregated facilities.  Which is it?  These kinds of inconsistencies confuse people, and allow those with anti-transgender agendas to exploit these inconsistencies to influence people's attitudes about all transgender people with their straw man and red herring arguments. 

I identify as a binary woman who happens to be transsexual.  It's hard enough to explain myself to other people without having to explain all the other types of transgender experience beyond defending our common humanity and right to exist.  Explaining my personal trans experience as arising from an innate biological cause backed by science is hard for all but the most hardcore bigots to dismiss. 

I'm not advocating going our own separate ways, but we do need to do a better job articulating our case.
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Dat2ra

I consider myself a straight male. I have had four serious trans girlfriends, and nearly married one; trans girls are not a fetish for me. I have shared many of their experiences and need to caution the temptation to label ignorance as "bigotry", even though they may appear or sound the same. A bigot cannot tolerate a different perspective, but a person ignorant on the subject may be taught, but not necessarily easily. Keep in mind that the whole idea of being trans is so foreign to so many people and it threatens their identities and concept of gender roles. As a transwoman develops her own self, she has to decide who is hostile toward her and who is just baffled. It is a lot to ask that transwomen be patient with the uninformed, but it is in the best interest of all to do just that. Progress is being made. It may seem glacially slow, but I doubt that militancy will gain the acceptance and understanding you seek.
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Kylo

One could even ask why is the T in LGBT? I've talked with quite a few T people who feel the T does not belong tacked on to the end of an acronym that initially dealt exclusively with sexual orientation.

At this point it doesn't seem like T will be separated from LGB any time soon, but it has to be said, being categorized alongside matters of sexuality has not done much to make the public aware that being trans is not a sexuality or anything primarily to do with sex. Now another letter has been added that refers to the condition of intersex. I'm still not on board with the idea intersex and trans truly belong in a box with sexual orientation at all. I see the reasoning of putting it there under that particular umbrella at the time and as a matter of urgency, but it's only been in the last three or four years I've been a shift in general attitudes online, from trans being assumed to be transvestism, to a sexuality, to now been seen as a mental problem. In my view it's none of those things as they perceive it, and I've been trying to come up with a series of short, concise definitions to use when I need to for people... but it often seems like treading water when we're presented alongside quite different groups as if tied to or essentially linked to them. The connection to sex and sexuality is made for people immediately when presented alongside gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual categories... and in my view being transsexual has little to do with those things - if they are involved at all it is not any sort of motivator for a trans condition (except in Iran of course). I then have to explain how and why T is separate from LGB almost every single time someone is trying to grasp what trans conditions are. 
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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ainsley

I have argued the same point here, Viktor, about the t in lgbt, only to be told, once again, the numbers within the lgb help the t cause.  But, it drives the confusion of sex and gender and does a disservice for educating the masses about what being transgender means and that it has nothing to do with sexual preference.  The same goes for the umbrella, and, again I have made the same point here before, that is drives confusion, rather than clarity and specificity for the various terms under the umbrella.  The strength in numbers argument bothers me.
Some people say I'm apathetic, but I don't care.

Wonder Twin Powers Activate!
Shape of A GIRL!
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hiddengirlsheila

Well to be honest, being transgender has nothing to do with your sexuality. One is about gender and the other is about who you prefer to date or have sex with...i am bisexual myself but not because i am trans. They have no tie with each other or very little ties to each other, but they are often intertwined due to lack of understanding what a transgender is probably.

Once i transition, i would rather be with a guy more than i would pre transitioned though. I'd be much more comfortable. Being with a woman is different, and a tad complicated for me to discuss especially since it reminds me of what i still have in between my legs since i've not transitioned yet. I have thought about GRS and i might or might not do it. That's for future consideration for when i begin other transitioning things.

edit: But if i really want to look like the woman i am, i should probably really have GRS performed on me, get rid of what i call my "junk" in between my legs...eventually but HRT i should start doing first and laser hair removal. I have to take things a step at a time. I couldn't afford to do it all at once anyway money wise, that'd be like buying a house immediately rather than slowly paying off the mortgage.
I'm my girly self awaiting the day i look like the girl i am through transitioning physically male-to-female in order to becoming more of what is kept inside me so that i feel complete and experience life truly as who i am so that i don't have any regrets.
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HappyMoni

I have looked in on this thread once in a while and am grateful that things have calmed. I don't care if we disagree. It is okay, but there is a good and bad way to do it. People on the outside are going to disparage us because we are different than the common, more numerous "normal" people. There's a stupid word that needs changing, "normal."  It makes people feel better about themselves to have us to look down on. Well us and the other "non-normals." It hurts my heart right now to know they are about to elect this guy in Alabama. They would elect a guy accused of molesting a 14 year old based on the fact that he's carrying the mantle of hatred against people like us. That is how powerful the hate is  for us 'different' folks. So, what does one do with this? Well, you get sad and disgusted. You can become depressed. All reasonable reactions. But then you have to stop it. You have to look at it and realize what is really a logical, legitimate way  of looking at how we fit into the world. At that point, Hiddengirlsheilla, you stop looking for others to validate what you know is real in your life.  The only explanation is inside you. You know you are not bad, you are not mentally ill, you are not a freak in any way. You are a wonderful, sensitive person who is just reaching to be who you really are. So, wherever you go from that point, be proud of who you are. I have taken this road myself. It took some time to reach a place where I could be proud. There are times where I don't want to be consider to be an 'other' by society. If it gets down to it though, I am proud to be who and what I am, and to hell with those who doubt me. I could easily be angry at the haters, but being angry is not a way for me to proceed. I lived being an a angry person in a male body most of my life. My path might be stereotypical feminine, being on the softer side of looking at things, but it is my path, and I am at peace with that. I hope you are finding your path.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
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echo7

Quote from: Clara Kay on November 29, 2017, 09:16:15 PM
The transgender community has worked hard to separate sex and gender on the one hand, while conflating them on the other depending on what we are trying to accomplish.  For example, we argue that existing laws barring discrimination based on sex also includes gender identity, while at the same time insisting that gender identity is independent of biological sex when seeking access to sex segregated facilities.  Which is it?  These kinds of inconsistencies confuse people, and allow those with anti-transgender agendas to exploit these inconsistencies to influence people's attitudes about all transgender people with their straw man and red herring arguments. 

Well said.  I wish the trans community would be more consistent in its usage of terms and definitions.
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jessica95

Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 25, 2017, 08:40:20 PM
Many people fail to understand that being transgender is not a personal choice. Or am i wrong on that? I didn't choose to be trans, i had natural inclinations of womanhood that was ingrained into me since i was born. I was always more girly than other boys when i was a kid and i liked girly things. I felt female and still feel like a female despite being a biological male body. Like gay, bisexual, and lesbian people you do not "choose" to be that. It is a natural occurrence and same with addiction to drugs even though in that case you have the choice to not be addicted but once you're addicted you didn't choose to stay addicted. The claim everyone is born or created straight and identified as what their biological body dictates is flawed and scientific research has backed up plenty of evidence to suggest that we are born transgender. Or am i wrong or right?
Same thing here, i  didnt make a Choice, i was born With this. I like Your post.
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RobynD

I hear you on the T in LGTBQ+ it can add to confusion, but i continue to maintain that it is worth it.

I was thinking about this the other day and one thing we all have in common is that we are born with characteristics that later often lead us to take an identity. We do that for a variety of reasons but community is a big one. Some of those characteristics are about sex and some are about gender. Since we are born (maybe not exclusively in the case of preference but maybe too) with those we are in good company

From an activists standpoint we see oppression leveled at us and it could be the other people in these groups understand that better because they have experienced as well. Oppression is intersectional and it is often the case that we fit into two categories. For instance, I am both a transgender woman and bisexual.


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xAmyX

I didn't "choose" to be transgender. I've always wanted to be a girl as far back as I can remember, but I did choose to transition. It's not like I had a gun to my head saying take these pills YO. No... I chose to do that! There was; however, a burning desire to get started! That's for sure. Maybe that desire could be perceived as the gun? Interesting.

One of the main issues I see is that many people think we are transgender for the specific reason to sleep with the same sex at which we were assigned at birth. That couldn't be any further from the truth. Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate from each other. I wasn't attracted to men at all when I first started taking hormones. It was around 6 months into my transition I began to experiment, and then I realized that I could have an enjoyable relationship with men.

Now, I'm just as attracted to men as I am women. The desire is equal.

I cannot say how good it feels being in the arms of a man I love as we're watching a movie, or having a picnic at the park. My heart just melts away in bliss! I would never have guessed I could love a man as much as I have. I just wish a man would love me as much as I love him.

I'm starting to cry now.

He'd say: "You're like a baby."
Of course I'm like a baby! This feeling feels so good it has me paralyzed and on my knees..

Paige

Quote from: HappyMoni on November 30, 2017, 03:14:06 PM
I have looked in on this thread once in a while and am grateful that things have calmed. I don't care if we disagree. It is okay, but there is a good and bad way to do it. People on the outside are going to disparage us because we are different than the common, more numerous "normal" people. There's a stupid word that needs changing, "normal."  It makes people feel better about themselves to have us to look down on. Well us and the other "non-normals." It hurts my heart right now to know they are about to elect this guy in Alabama. They would elect a guy accused of molesting a 14 year old based on the fact that he's carrying the mantle of hatred against people like us. That is how powerful the hate is  for us 'different' folks. So, what does one do with this? Well, you get sad and disgusted. You can become depressed. All reasonable reactions. But then you have to stop it. You have to look at it and realize what is really a logical, legitimate way  of looking at how we fit into the world. At that point, Hiddengirlsheilla, you stop looking for others to validate what you know is real in your life.  The only explanation is inside you. You know you are not bad, you are not mentally ill, you are not a freak in any way. You are a wonderful, sensitive person who is just reaching to be who you really are. So, wherever you go from that point, be proud of who you are. I have taken this road myself. It took some time to reach a place where I could be proud. There are times where I don't want to be consider to be an 'other' by society. If it gets down to it though, I am proud to be who and what I am, and to hell with those who doubt me. I could easily be angry at the haters, but being angry is not a way for me to proceed. I lived being an a angry person in a male body most of my life. My path might be stereotypical feminine, being on the softer side of looking at things, but it is my path, and I am at peace with that. I hope you are finding your path.
Moni

I think Moni makes a good point.  It's not necessarily just us that these people have a problem with.  People  choose not to understand us, because they fear change and feel this is just another challenge to their way of life. Many feel you are challenging their place in society.  We are challenging the bigots by being us.  We should not expect them to give up easily.

When we talk about science proving our case we forget all the science people choose to ignore that has nothing to do with our plight.  Consider the people who dismiss the science behind vaccines, Climate Change, evolution, etc.  It's taken more than 50 years to convince people that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

Unfortunately our challenge for acceptance is very similar to that of the gay population.  They have a 30 year head start on us and still the bigots consider them mentally ill or perverted.  The good news is that most of society now ignores these people.  I hope our road to acceptance is quicker.

Take care,
Paige :)

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RobynD

Quote from: xAmyX on December 03, 2017, 09:35:01 PM


Now, I'm just as attracted to men as I am women. The desire is equal.

I cannot say how good it feels being in the arms of a man I love as we're watching a movie, or having a picnic at the park. My heart just melts away in bliss! I would never have guessed I could love a man as much as I have. I just wish a man would love me as much as I love him.

I'm starting to cry now.

He'd say: "You're like a baby."
Of course I'm like a baby! This feeling feels so good it has me paralyzed and on my knees..

I so very much agree with this.



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Julia1996

I have found that some people have misconceptions about transition and surgery. A lot of people actually believe a " sex change" as most ignorant people call it, is an instant procedure. Like a guy checks into the hospital and has SRS and poof, he's a woman. They have no clue about the long process of transitioning. SRS is usually the end not the beginning of transition. I know people who actually believed that. They now better now after I had to explain it to them. With MtF people cis people seem to think it's all about " the dick ". They are really interested in what happens to it but give no thought to to the hardest part which is transition.
Julia


Born 1998
Started hrt 2015
SRS done 5/21/2018
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RobynD

Quote from: Julia1996 on December 04, 2017, 12:31:34 PM
I have found that some people have misconceptions about transition and surgery. A lot of people actually believe a " sex change" as most ignorant people call it, is an instant procedure. Like a guy checks into the hospital and has SRS and poof, he's a woman. They have no clue about the long process of transitioning. SRS is usually the end not the beginning of transition. I know people who actually believed that. They now better now after I had to explain it to them. With MtF people cis people seem to think it's all about " the dick ". They are really interested in what happens to it but give no thought to to the hardest part which is transition.

Well said. Most know very little, and don't even realize how relatively low the percentage of people that have SRS is. It is a constant educational process to those around us willing to listen. And yes, i think many people project their own affinity for their body parts on to our situations and can't figure it out.


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AutumnGlory

As I went into transition, it had become popular for the media to be politically correct and describe gender change as a valid lifestyle choice.  They were focussed on the word 'valid' but didn't realise what damage the word 'choice' was doing.  My family thoroughly believed that I was driven by choice, and they believed that choice was a stupid one.

I felt very unjustly treated.  It felt as little like a choice as cancer would have been, at which point all would have dashed to support me, rather than a) try to undermine me and b) abandon me.  But how on earth to describe the forces driving me, they were beyond description, beyond language; beyond my own understanding.

Portraying gender alignment as a lifestyle choice is no better nor any different from describing being gay as a lifestyle choice.  The latter describes the sexual relationships one is driven to make by one's identity; the former the social relationships one is driven to make by one's identity.  Simple, really!
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xAmyX

I don't see SRS as the end of anything. No matter what, you'll always live on this Earth as a transgender female. There's no getting out of that. It is a nice compliment to your appreciation of yourself though if that's what you're into.

Miss Clara

When I think back to my understanding of transgender people before I acknowledged my own transsexuality, the misconceptions I had are too numerous to list.  I suspect a lot of people today share many of the same misconceptions.  Where these notions originate from is interesting.  Movies play a huge role in shaping peoples attitudes about transgender women. It's hard to find a movie that projects transgender women in a positive way.  Then, there's the internet porn sites that depict trans women as primarily sex objects.  They always seem to be pre-op transsexuals.  I guess that's what fascinates many men.  TV sensationalists like Jerry Springer have done their share of damage in shaping the public's perceptions of trans women, too.  I say trans women because, with only a few exceptions, trans men are of no real interest to the public.

When I came out, the first reaction of people was to assume I was gay.  I joined a transgender support group the membership of which turned out to be 90% male cross-dressers.  I came to understand that most transgender people do not identify as the opposite sex.  In a world where self-identified male cross-dressers outnumber transsexual women 10 to 1, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the public is confused about what it means to be transgender. 

Most people cannot separate gender from sex.  You can be 100% woman, but if it's learned that you were born male-bodied, you are immediately reclassified as either a male by religious types, or a third gender by everyone else.  I do it myself.  I have my female friends, my male friends, and my trans friends.  I relate to each group differently.  My trans friends will ask me questions that my natal women friends wouldn't think to ask.  If I want to be treated like a cis woman, I'd better not disclose my past.  Once it's found out, the relationship changes overnight.  Why should that be?  I'm the same person after the revelation as before, but people can't completely separate gender from sex, even if sex and gender have been aligned.

If a friend or relative knew me before my transition, they cannot expunge the image of my former self.  It doesn't matter how accepting they are.  I'm hoping that in time they will form a new more relevant mental image of me.  It takes a long time, but I see signs of it happening.  For distant friends and relatives it's that much harder.  That's why I make sure they see lots of pictures of me on social media as I am now along with evidence of my unfettered female personality. I never show pictures of me in old photo albums, or talk about my past life.  That person is dead to me, and I prefer others to think the same.

Those who have had the opportunity to get to know me as a woman have said how much they've learned about transgender people.  I have to remind them that I'm just one person with one unique story.  But it's a start.
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staciM

Quote from: xAmyX on December 05, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
I don't see SRS as the end of anything. No matter what, you'll always live on this Earth as a transgender female. There's no getting out of that. It is a nice compliment to your appreciation of yourself though if that's what you're into.

That's your opinion ( if that's what YOU are into), but I don't agree.  In my opinion that attitude and thought process (especially from someone in the community) is the crux of the problem as to why we may not be completely accepted as our actual gender....and chromosomes don't play into that.

There are those of us who simply want to live a binary lifestyle.   I have no intention of being labeled transgender for the rest of my life.  To me, this is a process, with a beginning and end....and death isn't the end ;).   If your belief is that we are never truly woman, but instead always a "transgender woman" how are people living outside the process ever going to properly accept us as woman?
- Staci -
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