Simple flirting vs Attraction/interest: Difference between men and women??

[CMD042414]

I thought I'd post this here to get both sides of the aisle involved. In my almost 4 years as a man, I have come to realize that heterosexual identified women do not view flirtatious behavior on their part as a sign of actual interest in a man. This is beyond frustrating and confusing as I reserve that for a woman I want to be more than friends with.

I have been close friends with a woman for 4 years now. Very close. Very flirtatious. Her body language, the look in her eyes, the way she smiles at me, all of it has always said to me I like you. From day one. It has never ceased. However she is unhappily married and I assumed we both had feelings for one another but knew we would never act on them. For the first time I tried to respectfully let her know how I feel by saying in a thank you card that I wish we could've met at a different time in her life. She responded in kind via text, gushing over it and saying it made her emotional (the card also included how awesome I think she is). "We are on the same page. Enough said." Her exact quote. I took this to mean I have been correct all these years now. That was August.

2 weeks ago I find out I was wrong. She does not have any sexual or romantic feelings towards me she says. She told me I am an attractive guy, she feels very close to me, and I make her feel good. She thought we had an "understanding" whatever that means. Needless to say I am devastated and shell shocked.

Please note that this isn't simple playful flirting. This is her saying very questionable things. This is her body language. This is the undeniable chemistry we have had for so long. When I asked her if she 100% never had feelings for me beyond platonic friend she said its not that simple and more than she can explain in a text. That it is complicated. JUST SAY NO THEN!!

So ladies, what do you think? A few weeks or even a couple months of flirty stuff well I could say I am reading too much into it. But 4 years?! Intimate conversations. Moments of palpable chemistry. Tbat unquantifiable stuff between two people that you feel to your core. So confusing.

[CMD042414]

Forgot to add that the catalyst for this is she called me drunk one nigh asking if I missed her all week. I found out she thinks a guy in her doc program is attractive. She mentioned she was scared for what that meant for her marriage. My heart broke into a thousand pieces. I finally had something to compare it to. She now says it was just her having too much to drink and approaching 40 in a bad marriage.

[TransAm]

I know you asked the ladies, but I'm chiming in.

A long time ago when I was in high school, I had a massive ****ing crush on this girl. She was everything I wanted at the time and the messages that she kept sending me were obvious. Every time I'd look up during class, she'd be dreamily staring at me (no exaggeration) and when we'd lock eyes, she'd blush and look away. She always wanted to sit next to me, work on projects with me, talk to me, catch me outside of class and talk, etc.
One day we were supposed to be giving a speech and, being an extreme introvert, I had absolutely no desire to do so. To say I was nervous would be a massive understatement. As I got up to do the speech and looked up at the class, she was holding up this little sign that said 'you've got this' and smiling at me. It was pretty much the only thing that got me through the presentation.
This trend continued. She invited me to her house under the guise she wanted to cut my hair and insisted I take my shirt off. She was brushing my back with her hands and telling me how attractive I was... yeah.

Unfortunately, at the time, I was still stuck as a female and sort of closeted/too full of self-loathing to have enough confidence to engage in any sort of relationship. But I eventually worked up the confidence to come right out and tell her I was interested in her and had been for some time.

Her response?
"Oh... I'm not actually into girls... uh..." etc.

TL;DR, can commiserate, women make no god**** sense.

[Kylo]

Yes, some women will flirt openly and enjoy the actual "game" or excitement of flirting (particularly if unhappily married) with no intention of actually escalating beyond that. It sounds like this is the sort of person you're friends with. There's that idea in some people's minds they're just engaging in a bit of "harmless" hitting on, and it means nothing because it means nothing to them. Or she might be the sort of person keeping you around as another option, as it were.

Now that you are aware that she's not all that interested, it might be an idea to tell her not to flirt so heavily any more. She'll probably keep doing it if you don't. The fact she's asking if you missed her and telling you about her attractions to other people indicates she's relying rather heavily on you for a confidant and possibly for attention and/or amusement (with the flirting).

[CMD042414]

TL;DR, can commiserate, women make no god**** sense.

What I really don't get is the incredulity that you would actually think she likes you!

[CMD042414]

Yes, some women will flirt openly and enjoy the actual "game" or excitement of flirting (particularly if unhappily married) with no intention of actually escalating beyond that. It sounds like this is the sort of person you're friends with. There's that idea in some people's minds they're just engaging in a bit of "harmless" hitting on, and it means nothing because it means nothing to them. Or she might be the sort of person keeping you around as another option, as it were.

Now that you are aware that she's not all that interested, it might be an idea to tell her not to flirt so heavily any more. She'll probably keep doing it if you don't. The fact she's asking if you missed her and telling you about her attractions to other people indicates she's relying rather heavily on you for a confidant and possibly for attention and/or amusement (with the flirting).

There are so many more variables than I can even get into. This wasn't the reason for her call. I brought it up actually. This is the first time she has ever mentioned another guy. Other than saying a celeb is good looking or some random dude. Which we both do. Honestly I mention women I like to her at will. Even though I have feelings for her we are afterall just frienda ao i suppose I tried to act as such.

[CMD042414]

Some things she has said:
At this point we've done everything but have sex (jokingly)

I had a dream with you in it last night and we were in the same bed

Thank you for being there for me and knowing when I need you without asking; this is all going to change when you have surgery! (She means phallo)

My husband is uncomfortable with our friendship. (Why I ask, my other female friends' boyfriends could care less). This is...different

When we go out everyone probably thinks we're married, no one understands our friendship

We have a synergy

I don't know what made you smile more just now, the fact that I had a dream about another woman or the fact that its me

Aww you're so cute! You miss me!

[Kylo]

Well, you know her best. At the end of the day though, she is married - unless there was divorce, eloping or something of that nature on the horizon, I'm not sure what her flirtatious behavior could be expected to lead to?

That's some heavy duty flirting though. And yet she says she's not attracted. Either she's not being truthful and maybe trying to convince herself out of the idea, or she is and she's rather taking advantage of that closeness and ease she has with you.

If I were you I'd just ask her (while she's sober) what the hell's going on/where you stand. If you need to know. Most guys I know generally prefer to know where they stand with a woman and what's supposed to happen next. I'd say the same. Limbo isn't much fun, unless you're content with the situation as is...

[Julia1996]

Personally I don't flirt with a guy unless I am actually interested in him. Now that I have a boyfriend when guys flirt with me I am polite and nice but I don't flirt back. But some women like flirting with guys even if they aren't interested in them. It's an ego boost for some woman to know they can attract a man even though she has no intention of ever doing anything with him. I had a friend who liked to do that to guys. She thought it was fun. I think it's really mean and messed up. She even liked playing with a guy and getting him hot and hard and then stop and say NO. That's just wrong.

[CMD042414]

I think the difference also is if a man finds a woman attractive he cannot see her as just a friend. Because of the attraction.  But in the wake of all of this I have had other female friends tell me they can easily find a guy attractive and be platonic.

I simply cannot muster up enough fake interest to flirt with a woman I don't want! I can't just turn it on for fun. My flirting only comes out of the cage when unlocked by attraction lol.

I waffle every other day from I know she has feelings for me and she just can't/won't admit it to how could I have been so wrong. When i said to her face I think you won't adnit it because you are married and it is uncomfortable she didn't push back. Thats the thing she doesn't ever emphatically deny it! I'm sorry but if a friend likes me and i don't feel the same I am without a doubt clearing that up right away!

[Toni]

Being ex-guy I can say that I and every guy I knew understood that married/ in relationship women (and I expect the same for guys) are off limits and that it's far more trouble than it's worth.  People on the rebound fresh out of relationships are suspect as well.  You're fairly new at this game and a game is what it is to many people.  Be careful not to let the way you feel now that you're looking at this from another angle and anxious to have a relationship (perfectly understandable) get in the way of seeing this as it really is.  I think you're just an ego booster for her, can't tell you how many women AND men use that "my marriage is terrible" line as a hook for sympathy and getting the other side to think they MAY be available.  Fat chance. 
     Look for single people actually available that are self sufficient and not ego needy.  A relationship based upon need is always in danger as people's needs change.  Find one based upon want, someone that is with you because they WANT to be, not need to be, it's a lot more honest.  Unfortunately, I think this one is trouble.  Get out before you really get hurt.  And pay attention to the news, you're now the usual suspect.  Toni

[Roll]

While there is a common complaint that guys read too much into signals, or mistake friendly gestures for romantic/sexual ones, I feel like that is not the case here at all. This girl seemed pretty blatant all things considered. Some people, men and women alike, are just that way. It can happen for a variety of reasons, some being her fault and some not. For instance, maybe she just likes the feeling of power she has over men. Or maybe she had bad role models and just genuinely doesn't know how else to interact with men, and to her it is just normal.

What really makes me wonder is her mentioning the other guy to you. There is zero chance she didn't know your feelings at least to a degree, and would know exactly what that would do.

And I definitely know of men doing similar, so it's not a female only thing, just it's more likely for the guys to get called on it by spouses (or, you know, sued for sexual harassment).

[CMD042414]

quote author=Roll link=topic=231204.msg2055855#msg2055855 date=1512088866]


What really makes me wonder is her mentioning the other guy to you. There is zero chance she didn't know your feelings at least to a degree, and would know exactly what that would do.

She didn't try to bring him up. She mentioned she'd been drinking with her classmates. I asked if he was there. And I asked if she likes him. That's when she said she finds him attractive,  he'd been in her face all week, and asked how I know her so well. She said she didn't want to say anything about it to mw because she did not want to hurt me. 

[Roll]

She didn't try to bring him up. She mentioned she'd been drinking with her classmates. I asked if he was there. And I asked if she likes him. That's when she said she finds him attractive,  he'd been in her face all week, and asked how I know her so well. She said she didn't want to say anything about it to mw because she did not want to hurt me.

Ahhh, that's a lot better then. Still, something is definitely off with the way she views interacting with men (maybe women too).

[Floof]

I have little good personal advice to offer, cause I'm terrible at flirting.. If I'm not interested in you I'll still be friendly and kind, but if I am I'll let you know in no uncertain terms. I told my current girlfriend the 3rd time i saw her how I felt, and that I would like if if she too was interested in something more.. That may sound awkward, but personally I prefer being direct about it and have no issues just remaining friends if the feeling isn't mutual. I have no patience for 'the game'

Some people love flirting though, and sort of 'feed' off feeling attractive and desirable. I have known such people, but I don't know if your friend is one. She seems very blatant  in her flirting, but to me it seems the reasonable thing to do is shut the door on any possibility of being romantically involved with her. Certainly maintain the friendship -you seem to mostly enjoy each others company-, but pursue other women for dates and romance. If she hasn't acted on what she appears to feel for you in 4 years I don't expect she ever will, or that she even feels the way you do at all.

[echo7]

Generally speaking, women tend to have lower self-esteem than men. If a woman is in a bad marriage, it will hurt her self esteem even more.  Your friend is flirting in an attempt to make her feel better about herself, whether she realizes it or not.  She's craving attention to boost her self esteem because she's not getting it from her husband.  Her flirting  is all about her, not about you, and certainly not about your potential relationship with her.

A mature, stable, confident woman will not flirt recklessly. Quite the opposite, she will deliberately avoid even speaking to most men, lest they take it as a sign she's interested in them.

[CMD042414]

4 years is a long time to be doing that for an ego boost though. You'd think she would have gotten bored and sought out a different outlet then.

She was actually flirty with me from day one before I ever transitioned. Oir relationship has never known anything other than this connection we have.

It's so confusing and has me feeling disoriented and disjointed. I never had any delusions that we'd be together. I mean I daydreamed lol. But she is married. It's the behavior not matching what she is saying. I am sad and hurt because I my heart is broken and I am losing one of my closest friends. I don't think either of us know how to interact with one another without that extra level of whatever the hell it is.

[Charlie Nicki]

Well, both women and men do this. Living as a gay man, I can tell you I know guys who will be super nice to you, even go all the way to tell you they want to be in a relationship with you, etc just for the attention. It's an ego stroke, that's all they're looking for, it's not real and the moment they realize you actually have feelings or that it could actually evolve into something, they get distant or flat out disappear. Now doing the same for 4 years is a whole other level.

[elkie-t]

Many women I knew would flirt just to make you run after them, then you'd be willing to do lots of stupid thing for her for free, like driving her around or do other helping. Your friend might just use you, ask yourself would you spend as much time with her or help her in any way if she's a guy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KathyLauren]

I am with you, OP, I don't get flirting, in either direction.  Never have.  I can understand it, conceptually, if it leads to something, though I am terrrible at recognizing it, but I have never understood flirting just for personal entertainment.  There is something about that that strikes me as disrespectful.