"There are lots of people who want to kill us."

[rmaddy]

Some version of the thread title is evoked in several discussions here daily, usually in reference to the fears people have about coming out or being out.  I don't deny at all that transgender people may be targets for violence, but in today's society, who is not such a target?  A while ago, I did the math:

http://www.renaemadisongage.com/2017/01/check-the-math/

The gist of the blog post is that while it is true that transfolk are murdered, some even because they are transfolk, the statistics on violence in the US do not, on closer review, lend much credence to the worry that being trans is especially dangerous as opposed to being, well...non-trans.

I'll let you digest this and/or react to it before I say anything more in this thread.

[Gertrude]

I think it depends on where one lives, the subculture they live in and their activities. On top of that, it also depends on one's personality and how one carries oneself. Situational awareness helps too. Predators know their prey. Don't be prey and if you end up being prey do anything necessary to defend one's life. If someone was going to hurt me or worse, I have no problems punching their ticket.


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[plastic-mayhem]

Knowing what people, behaviors, activities and placrs to avoid is a big help in not becoming a victim

[Devlyn]

"I'm not dead yet"   

[DawnOday]

The one flaw I see in the logic is that there are many more of them than there are of us. If I did not live in a diversified city I don't know what I would do. Move I suppose. Beyond death Trans folk are  Let's look at some other figures. As a white man. I have never been harrassed. Am I just lucky or privileged. Yet 69% of all transgender folk have been harrassed. As a white man, I have never been kicked out of a bathroom. Yet 49% of the public believe transwomen should use the mens room and subject themselves to violence. Only 4.6% of the population commit suicide compared to 41% for trans folk. If you don't think this makes for a hostile environment, I don't know what does. There are more ways to die than being murdered. Being in the closet because of public perception is one.

[krobinson103]

I feel no more at risk than I did before. Where we live people are very polite and quite genuine. It would be easy to get paranoid about people MIGHT think or do, but that's counterproductive.

[Deborah]

I live in the Deep South and the last time I felt threatened in any way was in 1975.  That was only because me and my friends had the bright idea to go to a not so good part of Atlanta when diversity was not part of the vocabulary and racial tensions were high.  Even then we just moved out smartly and avoided trouble.

Since I have started this I have never felt any threat.


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[Megan.]

Last year a trans* person in the UK sought and received asylum in New Zealand claiming that this county was not safe.

I was utterly baffled, I've been full-time now  for nine months, and haven't experienced a single negative situation. I don't walk alone down a dark street, no woman would if they can avoid it,  but otherwise I live the life I lead as a man. Everyone I have come into contact with has been polite and courteous. My life is a happy one,  and safe as for any other woman.

"The only thing to fear is fear itself".

Those who conquer this problem can look forward and grow. Those who can't will always struggle.

I choose to look forward and grow.

X



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[PurplePelican]

The article makes an interesting point, the stats show that trans murders are at about the same percentage of the total number of murders as the trans community is in the wider community, which indicates that it's likely not a targeted thing.

I don't like the way it assumed that all trans people who are killed are killed because they are trans, it seems disingenuous. It seems dishonest, as without a sworn and signed statement from the killer, YOU don't know what they were thinking. Some of these people were probably killed for the most prosaic reasons - wrong place, wrong time, a woman, a <insert other minority group>..

This is likely to cause dissent in the trans community as it removes some of the "victimhood" some trans people seem to aspire to. Yes, I said it out loud, some trans people seem to want to be victims - it gives them something to scream about.

[rmaddy]

The one flaw I see in the logic is that there are many more of them than there are of us.

There is a flaw in my logic, or rather in my process, but this is not it.  I took data from non-similar sources in order to compare the 27 trans deaths with some sort of a national average.  It's the closest I could get to seeing if transgender murders were out of proportion.  If anything, they seem to be lower, but any time you are combining information from a variety of sources, you run into potential problems with statistical analysis.  I would be wide open to a cleaner method if you have any suggestions. 

If I did not live in a diversified city I don't know what I would do. Move I suppose.

I doubt it.  This is because most of us stay relatively close to home and tend to make our residency decisions based on other factors (schools, employment opportunity, etc).  I would be willing to bet that most transgender murders have actually taken place "in diverse cities", because  disproportionate number of murders occur in cities in general.

As a white man. I have never been harrassed. Am I just lucky or privileged. Yet 69% of all transgender folk have been harrassed.

Good point, but I am only taking on the issue of homicidal violence here.

Only 4.6% of the population commit suicide compared to 41% for trans folk. If you don't think this makes for a hostile environment, I don't know what does.

I think it's an outlying (never reproduced) statistic, and that even now, you are misusing it.  The Williams Institute survey (2014) asked the question, "Have you ever attempted suicide?"  41% answered in the affirmative.  Nevertheless, none of those who answered in the affirmative actually committed suicide, so the true rate of suicide in that cohort was 0%.  I have observed in my professional practice that only a tiny fraction of those who are evaluated in the ER for "suicide attempt" have actually made one at the time.  The Williams Institute report itself cautions that questioners potentially used this yes/no question as a proxy to indicate they had engaged in self-harm...pretty much the same thing I observe in my practice.  41% makes for a great headline, but it isn't remotely factual.  We ought not to be so hungry for validation that we turn to unconvincing data.

There are more ways to die than being murdered. Being in the closet because of public perception is one.

Nicely put.  I couldn't agree more.

[Cassi]

There is a flaw in my logic, or rather in my process, but this is not it.  I took data from non-similar sources in order to compare the 27 trans deaths with some sort of a national average.  It's the closest I could get to seeing if transgender murders were out of proportion.  If anything, they seem to be lower, but any time you are combining information from a variety of sources, you run into potential problems with statistical analysis.  I would be wide open to a cleaner method if you have any suggestions. 

I doubt it.  This is because most of us stay relatively close to home and tend to make our residency decisions based on other factors (schools, employment opportunity, etc).  I would be willing to bet that most transgender murders have actually taken place "in diverse cities", because  disproportionate number of murders occur in cities in general.

Good point, but I am only taking on the issue of homicidal violence here.

I think it's an outlying (never reproduced) statistic, and that even now, you are misusing it.  The Williams Institute survey (2014) asked the question, "Have you ever attempted suicide?"  41% answered in the affirmative.  Nevertheless, none of those who answered in the affirmative actually committed suicide, so the true rate of suicide in that cohort was 0%.  I have observed in my professional practice that only a tiny fraction of those who are evaluated in the ER for "suicide attempt" have actually made one at the time.  The Williams Institute report itself cautions that questioners potentially used this yes/no question as a proxy to indicate they had engaged in self-harm...pretty much the same thing I observe in my practice.  41% makes for a great headline, but it isn't remotely factual.  We ought not to be so hungry for validation that we turn to unconvincing data.

Nicely put.  I couldn't agree more.

You never cease to impress me! 

[tgirlamg]

Hmmm... I guess I have managed to give the murderous throngs the slip without even trying!!!

There will always be fears about our world to cling to if someone chooses to to approach their life in that way... I'm sure Trans people get hit by buses, drown and have heart attacks too but, should worrying about that be a point of focus?... To each their own but,...I choose not to!

I have never felt threatened with violence by others since transitioning or let fear dictate my path... I go where my life takes me and have always been treated in a polite or, at minimum, civil enough manner by those I encounter...

Onward we go...

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

[Cassi]

Hmmm... I guess I have managed to give the murderous throngs the slip without even trying!!!

There will always be fears about our world to cling to if someone chooses to to approach their life in that way... I'm sure Trans people get hit by buses, drown and have heart attacks too but, should worrying about that be a point of focus?... To each their own but,...I choose not to!

I have never felt threatened with violence by others since transitioning or let fear dictate my path... I go where my life takes me and have always been treated in a polite or, at minimum, civil enough manner by those I encounter...

Onward we go...

Ashley 😀❤️🌻

Good philosophy sister but now that you say trans people can get hit by cars I'm hiding in the closet

Just kidding.

[tgirlamg]

Good philosophy sister but now that you say trans people can get hit by cars I'm hiding in the closet

Just kidding.

Venture back out of there in a few years sister.. With more cars having auto braking features these days, your odds should get better with time... 😀

[Cassi]

Venture back out of there in a few years sister.. With more cars having auto braking features these days, your odds should get better with time... 😀

LOL, in a few years everyone will be driving Teslas.

[Cassi]

"I'm not dead yet"   

If the Devyln ain't dead we ain't gots nuthin to warry bout

[Devlyn]

"I'm not dead yet"   

If the Devyln ain't dead we ain't gots nuthin to warry bout

Precisely.   

[SadieBlake]

I'd say your larger error is in comparing a statistic that is for the overall population. An approximately equal number of black and white individuals are murdered each year, yet blacks make up only 13.3% of the US population. Further, females are less than 1/2 as likely as males to be murdered in the US. So equal overall numbers don't mean there isn't addition risk to being perceived as transgender, in fact I have very little doubt that there is.

Nyt November 9, 2017

Almost all the murder victims in the past several years have been nonwhite women. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, the annual murder rate for Americans ages 15 to 34 is about one in 12,000. But an investigation by the news organization Mic found that for black transgender women in the same age group, the rate was one in 2,600.

Beyond statistics, I'll take personal experience. Every trans female and most trans males and certainly many lesbians I know personally have been subjected to insults for no greater crime than walking down the street, many have been assaulted. None of which would apply to any of my straight white acquaintances. Of course also most (cis) females I've known have also been subjected to one or another sexual assault.

The point is, risk profiles are different for different populations.

I had never once in 60 years presenting as white male been subjected to harrassment on the street. Once I began dressing (non-passing) femme it took less than 2 weeks to the first one.

I have really good situational awareness which has served me well in staying away from trouble when it brews near me. It's kept me out of bar fights etc many times. I'm far more cautious now than when I was apparently cis male. Yes I'm 5'11 and muscular and more to the point know how to take care of myself, still I expect I'm far more likely a target than I was a couple of years ago and I've changed my behavior accordingly.

[Cassi]

I'd say your larger error is in comparing a statistic that is for the overall population. An approximately equal number of black and white individuals are murdered each year, yet blacks make up only 13.3% of the US population. Further, females are less than 1/2 as likely as males to be murdered in the US. So equal overall numbers don't mean there isn't addition risk to being perceived as transgender, in fact I have very little doubt that there is.

Nyt November 9, 2017
Beyond statistics, I'll take personal experience. Every trans female and most trans males and certainly many lesbians I know personally have been subjected to insults for no greater crime than walking down the street, many have been assaulted. None of which would apply to any of my straight white acquaintances. Of course also most (cis) females I've known have also been subjected to one or another sexual assault.

The point is, risk profiles are different for different populations.

I had never once in 60 years presenting as white male been subjected to harrassment on the street. Once I began dressing (non-passing) femme it took less than 2 weeks to the first one.

I have really good situational awareness which has served me well in staying away from trouble when it brews near me. It's kept me out of bar fights etc many times. I'm far more cautious now than when I was apparently cis male. Yes I'm 5'11 and muscular and more to the point know how to take care of myself, still I expect I'm far more likely a target than I was a couple of years ago and I've changed my behavior accordingly.

Being aware of one's surroundings has always been a key to street survival or survival period.  When Johnny Badguy is looking for a mark, he'll look for one who's not really paying attention for a number of reasons with two most important being the mark's unawareness and inability to fend off an attack, and the other when the person isn't really aware of what's going on, Johnny Badguy can get away with the vic not even having a decent description or info as to where from and where to Johnny went.

[Megan.]

I got more verbal insults as a fat overweight man than I ever have as a trans-woman.
Regardless, I'm still a heck of lot more likely to get run down by a bus than become a hate-murder statistic.

I choose to look forward, grow, and live my life [emoji5]. X

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