FTM/NB: Heavy discomfort when with masculine women

[Nbj]

Uhm so, before I start to explain what's bothering me, I'd like to make absolutely clear, that this is in no way meant offensive or bashing.

I lately noticed that I more and more get in some weird mood when I'm with that friend of mine, who's a stereotypical butch-lesbian (regarding appereance). I paid closer attention to that and it happens whenever I meet a woman who simply has a very masculine appeareance.
I don't want to say I get aggressive, that's absoluetly not it and I would never hurt somebody else! But it's not quite jealousy either...pissed of maybe?  I just feel less worthy and like "everybody see's me like her". (I'am pre-t, only actively passed as male like 5 times past year)

And I KNOW that this way of thinking is extremely sexist and what not. And I really am super angry at myself and ashamed for feeling that way, but I can't help it.

I think, I'm just asking if some of you know these feelings and maybe have a tip how to deal with it?

[widdershins]

Part of me is also annoyed that people who fail to read me as male tend to mistake me for a butch lesbian. Trans women at least have the luxury of being able to put on a dress and makeup to signal they want to be read as female. Trans men and transmasculine NBs don't get anything similar.

But that isn't the fault of butches. The roots of that identity go back to before any of us were born, and it's not really reasonable or fair to expect them to stop. (I do think some older butch lesbians may have identified as trans or nb if they had been born a few decades later, but it's their prerogative to identify as they like.)

If your discomfort comes from a similar place, transitioning will take care of it in the long run. Most people aren't going to read a beard + a low voice as a woman. Meanwhile, the bright side is that getting mistaken for a butch lesbian means straight guys generally don't hit on you, which is nice. Women don't get all predatory when you reject them.

[Sno]

Ah the alpha female. My nemesis. They try to read me as male, fail, and my communication style is more feminine, so great confusion, and misinterpretation ensues.

(Hugs) the struggle is real.


Rowan

[Kylo]

Yeah, something about being taken for a lesbian really got my goat. I couldn't stand the idea, which was why I never presented like one (and was never mistaken for one).

I knew plenty of them in uni back in the day, I lived with some. The really butch ones confused me, though. Never was quite sure what to make of that. Just a taste in dress and presentation I suppose but the idea of trying to look like a man seriously, wearing men's clothes and haircuts while at the same time being aggressive toward men like some of the ones I knew irritated me. Seemed like they hated men (except gay ones) but wanted to appropriate men's stuff. But that's just the ones I knew. No reflection on the rest I'm sure.

Anyway, I didn't think much of that attitude and I didn't consider it especially attractive or fun to act in a way that seemed aggressively compensatory. 

I just ignored it to be honest. I went out with people like that all the time. My best friend was a lesbian, somewhere between butch and femme I guess, and I used to hang out with the gay crowd a lot though I didn't consider myself one of them. There were all sorts of people in that crowd, a lot of variety. The only issue came when I was constantly asked to define myself to them. I refused to talk about my sexuality or my identity in those circles, as it was too pushy. Wasn't transitioning back then but if I had been I would have been asked to define that too I am sure. I never looked at them or to them as examples of masculinity. They were women; they were adamant they were women, so they were women to me... albeit ones who seemed to want to wear a man exterior. Nothing personally threatening about it to me, just weird to my mind. No jealousy, since none of them really looked all that much like men. They weren't like transitioning trans people. You couldn't have actually mistaken them for men the moment you were up close and heard them talking.

But yeah, I never wanted to be taken for one of them. Maybe it's the association with the lifestyle and the attitude or something, I don't know. They are very much in a different box from me.

[kylen kantari]

I'll start this by saying, I have absolutely nothing against lesbians or butch lesbians. They're great people and I've been friends with many.

But... I totally understand what you're saying. I wouldn't say I feel pissed or angry at them, but I definitely feel annoyed sometimes. I feel like I can never pass because of them. Which is totally not their fault. But I go out with a binder, a packer, a male haircut, wearing only men's clothing, and still get ma'amed. It's really frustrating, because like Widdershins said, trans women just need to put on a dress and makeup, and passing or not, people will correctly gender them (at least some people will, not always), while us trans men go all out and just get called lesbians.

I actually put off transitioning for several years because I didn't want to be labeled a butch lesbian. For me, it was because it was a double mislabeling. As a gay man, being called a lesbian is not only calling me a woman (which I'm not), but also saying that I'm attracted to women (which I'm not), and that just triggers my social dysphoria really bad.

I also live in southern California where there are a lot of butch lesbians, so the few times people correctly gender me at first, hastily correct themselves and apologize immediately afterwards for calling me sir. Fortunately I am getting my letter from my therapist this week and should be able to start T in the next few weeks. Then it should get better once the T starts to make changes.

So just remember that this phase does not last forever and you're not the only one to feel this way.

[Nbj]

thank you all a lot for the honest answers!
Hearing that others have similar/same feelings and experiences with this eased my conscience a lot.