Is it possible to live in one's target gender without "passing naked?"

[Rachael]

my appologies... i had this debate on an irc once and i swore i found an online conversion that gave it as 8 us = uk 12... several infact...
oh well, my bad.. your right *looks shifty*
R

Posted on: December 23, 2007, 08:58:02 AM

my appologies... i had this debate on an irc once and i swore i found an online conversion that gave it as 8 us = uk 12... several infact...
oh well, my bad.. your right *looks shifty*
although according to my teeshirt im wearing atm, and your size chart, im a uk 12! (its a german h&m tee)

R

[Maud]

UK size = US size +4

Back in the 50's it was +2 but american clothes manufacturers have increased sizing more than UK ones have due to americans being lardier.

[Rachael]

ah win... so i wasnt wrong!
cheers maud....
its funny, there  was a radio article (Radio 4 bbc) on the other day, about an american guy who wrote a book about how american women take more care of themselves, and are more attractive, and thinner than british women... lulz.... (he got eaten alive on womens hour)
R

[Keira]

God, folks just checks the 2000 sites who have the +2 sizing and stop talkling direct from memory.
Standard regulatory sizing is STILL +2.

Stores and manufacturers have their own sizing which is all over the map.
By this same token, I could say that vanity sizing which is more prominent in the US means
that US and UK sizing is about the same!!! So there. jeezz.

[Hypatia]

Since antropologues or forensic experts
cannot say 100% for sure when they dig out bones
that a squeleton is male or female.
There is some overlap in squeletal structure pre-puberty and even post puberty.

If there was no overlap, then their job would be very very easy.

I'll dig up the references and try to post it.

On a message board somewhere, I once noticed a transphobe needling a ->-bleeped-<- in a debate... that in the future when anthropologists dig up her skeleton, they'll see a male skeleton and decide they've found a man, therefore in the long run her transition is all for naught... or some absurd point like that...

Being a skeleton is the ultimate naked...

[Rachael]

im SO confused... ><

I remember one forensic show, silent witness in the uk, a train crash, and they found a mystery skeleton, a male one, and there was a guys wife missing too, an army captain. turned out his wife was m2f, and they identified her in the end from the underwire fused to the male skeletons chest...
so yah, fail & transition if you dont get a new skeleton! lazy ->-bleeped-<-s!
R

[Maud]

God, folks just checks the 2000 sites who have the +2 sizing and stop talkling direct from memory.
Standard regulatory sizing is STILL +2.

Stores and manufacturers have their own sizing which is all over the map.
By this same token, I could say that vanity sizing which is more prominent in the US means
that US and UK sizing is about the same!!! So there. jeezz.

Err, no. Think about this, vanity sizing is the inflation of the size of the garment while the nominal size stays a constant thus as vanity sizing is more popular in the US the disparity in numbering between US and UK sizing is larger.

Practically speaking all my clothing is marked size 12 UK size 8 US, no one uses the tables anymore.

[Keira]

Mawd, the standard says that. I don't know where you pull your info from
but please put some sources. I don't see why I should put mine size ALL online
sizing table says +2.

Vanity sizing is sizing smaller than, so if in the US they vanity size more, which is the case
because people are more overweight, the difference between UK and US size will be even
smaller. than +2.

[Rachael]

then go buy your chothes in shops then...
R >

[Kimberly]

Is it possible to live in one's target gender without "passing naked?"

I've thought about this a while and to be perfectly honest, I don't think it is.

[Rachael]

tbh, yeah, well, id probably agree tbh...
wrong bits? cant live the full life...
although this suggests you want to have sex/ walk around nude...
im not into that nudist crap tbh...
R

[IsabelleStPierre]

Greetings Everyone....

I think this a great topic and a most interesting thread;

Is it possible to live in one's target gender without "passing naked?"

Well, I personally believe that it is completely possible to pass in one's target gender without passing while naked. In all honesty how often do we actually ever see other's naked? Not too frequently and even in those situations when we are changing clothes, showering, etc. in a public setting...how many people go around completely naked? For example, at the local YMCA I use the woman's changing room and have never been outed or had any problems. I also can't remember ever really seeing anyone completely naked either; those on the way to the showers usually have towels wrapped around them, those primping by the mirror are usually dressed in some form...they don't stand there naked. There may be a brief period when changing panties, but most people aren't looking all that closely anyway...

Like I mentioned, I think it is completely possible to pass without passing while naked, but that's just my two cents.

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

[Rachael]

total agreement... all the people who belive the ladies changing room is a big naked frollick watch too many american teen movies...
stalls ladies and gentlemen, stalls...
R

[Veronica Secret]

total agreement... all the people who belive the ladies changing room is a big naked frollick watch too many american teen movies

LOL there are some who have never been in woman's locker room apparently (or even in America for that matter) or in a sauna with the girls or in bed with a guy for three days and him not questioning that you are anything but a cisgendered woman.

Having a vagina (and a matured WOMAN's body, breasts help too LOL) is a totally different ball game.

For example, at the local YMCA I use the woman's changing room and have never been outed or had any problems. I also can't remember ever really seeing anyone completely naked either; those on the way to the showers usually have towels wrapped around them, those primping by the mirror are usually dressed in some form...they don't stand there naked.

Quite surprising, where I go, woman almost always weigh themselves naked. Most woman over 25 don't bother covering up at all and many women do their makeup naked and almost no one covers up in the sauna.

The point is that one's insecurities pass when they know who they are. 

[Rachael]

no, i havent been in america...
but how can you say i havent used the ladies changing rooms? what are you basing that on?
i use my gym changing room weekly at uni, and have no problems, no, not a sauna, and not in bed with a guy, what has that to do with the price of fish?

R

[Veronica Secret]

It doesn't have any thing to do with the price of fish. It has everything to do with knowing who one is and being secure about it. Of course, this is something you will have to experience for yourself someday.

[Rachael]

why do you assume that i havent?
i pass perfectly, i live a normal life of a college female, i hold a part time job,, nobody knows my past bar a special few friends and my tutor. i dont pass naked, i know...  im pre op, and due to being abandoneded by my parents, and disowned, i wont be able to afford surgery for many years, obviously, this makes you better than me... i concede. you win.
Being comfortable in yourself, is knowing when to back off...
R

[Veronica Secret]

I pass perfectly, i live a normal life of a college female, i hold a part time job,, nobody knows my past bar a special few friends and my tutor.

Then why do you feel you have to convince me?

I wont be able to afford surgery for many years, obviously, this makes you better than me... i concede. you win.

I posted this thread more or less as a joke, not meaning to strike a nerve. Being post-op doesn't make me better than anyone. But what it does do is give me is the experience of being post-op and knowing what a different experience it is from being pre-op.

[Rachael]

yeah, that you pass so much better than preops, because you can get naked and still pass...
way to throw it in our faces love...
for some of us, this is a sore point.
I wont be able to get surgery on the NHS till im in my mid 40s, yeah, 20 years from now.
private? when i can save that much, probably the same time, so yeah, i wont ever pass as well as you for many many years.
some joke
R

[IsabelleStPierre]

I posted this thread more or less as a joke, not meaning to strike a nerve. Being post-op doesn't make me better than anyone. But what it does do is give me is the experience of being post-op and knowing what a different experience it is from being pre-op.

And hopefully sometime soon I'll experience those difference...that is all I have ever wanted...shooting for end of 08 if I can swing the money...

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre