Guy logic - lesbian trans okay, straight not

[CallMeKatie]

Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.

[Cassi]

Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.

Interesting.

[Dani]

Many men prefer cis-women for their sex partners. They still do not fully accept us as female even after we transition. This attitude, no matter how wrong and ignorant it may be, is just something we must deal with.

[Cassi]

Men are a complete turn-off to me.  As far as trans women and my lesbian ways I don't know yet.

[VickyS]

Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.

Men REALLY need to get over the 'gay' issue.  What the hell are they afraid of?  Speaking personally I have found it in the past to be bloody amazing!! lol

If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

lol.  Well, I know pretty well by now that I'm unnatural and weird.  And proud of it!!!  

[HappyMoni]

Katie, I think you are correct. I got so much support after people found out I was staying with my wife. I know a lot of support would have vanished if I was also proclaiming being straight and going with a guy. So many guys are insecure with any potential questioning of their 'manliness.'

[BT04]

WAY too many dudes are insecure in their masculinity. Talk about precious snowflakes and fragile, blossoming flowers... they're as sensitive as a certain president's skin is orange!

[KathyLauren]

Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.

Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation. 

There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us.  People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male.  So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt.  It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.

Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.

[FinallyMichelle]

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

Katie, I think you are correct. I got so much support after people found out I was staying with my wife. I know a lot of support would have vanished if I was also proclaiming being straight and going with a guy. So many guys are insecure with any potential questioning of their 'manliness.'

WAY too many dudes are insecure in their masculinity. Talk about precious snowflakes and fragile, blossoming flowers... they're as sensitive as a certain president's skin is orange!

There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us.  People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male.  So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt.  It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.

Lol, Seth!

You are all more than likely correct. God, I have been around those conversations more than I ever wanted to. I tried to insert a different opinion every time, sometimes they considered it others not so much. It has been drilled into them so much. We can hope that they would be able to make up their own mind and choose their own path but how likely is that to happen? What is the percentage of children raised in Islam or Christianity that ever leave their upbringing to take their own path?

It should not be on us to change people's views but I am afraid that it will be. Just being a steady counter to that indoctrination by being normal when they expect abnormal, I don't know. I do know that if things continue the way they are the point will be moot, this generation coming up is waaaaay more tolerant at least in my corner of the world.

Now to blow your mind, have that conversation with a bunch of women. If my friends are any indication of the average female perspective, they feel the exact opposite way.

[krobinson103]

Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation. 

There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us.  People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male.  So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt.  It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.

Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.

I agree. Not many people understand that transition isn't a choice. Its a necessity. Then when you say you like guys - unlike being gay its strange. Why would you alter your body and likes guys?

[Lady Sarah]

 To some people, it is a black or white issue. It reminds me of when a preacher said "God wants you to live your whole life either for Him, or for Satan. God does not like those that are Luke warm". I was like " so, that means no time to do anything for myself?"

[Kylo]

I have noticed that the prettier transwomen YouTubers are, the more acceptance from their male audience they tend to get. There's always those that won't deviate from the idea they're a man though. They are also usually the ones who are the most shocked to learn someone that feminine used to be a man in the first place, so the more oblivious, face-value ones, unsurprisingly. If nobody had told them it'd never had occurred to most of them anyway lol.

[Gertrude]

To some people, it is a black or white issue. It reminds me of when a preacher said "God wants you to live your whole life either for Him, or for Satan. God does not like those that are Luke warm". I was like " so, that means no time to do anything for myself?"

Some people need the security of facile thinking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Roll]

I have noticed that the prettier transwomen YouTubers are, the more acceptance from their male audience they tend to get. There's always those that won't deviate from the idea they're a man though. They are also usually the ones who are the most shocked to learn someone that feminine used to be a man in the first place, so the more oblivious, face-value ones, unsurprisingly. If nobody had told them it'd never had occurred to most of them anyway lol.

I think traditional standards of beauty or femininity definitely play a role in it. If they see an attractive, entirely passing transwoman they are far more likely to be okay with her liking guys without much thought. It's the same thing with gay guys. If a gay guy is effeminate, it's easier for straight cis men to wrap their heads around it. Meanwhile, you have someone who doesn't fit stereotypes come out and it's just the whole "Nooo, you're not gay, you like sports and hate musicals, bro!" and it throws them off.

Though in general I think it also plays into the common (at least cis-)male lesbian porn obsession a bit in that they think "I really like to watch lesbian porn, so it makes sense to me that someone might want to be part of lesbian porn", even though that of course is not what is actually happening. (And no, I don't mean in the sense of a certain banned topic. Simply that people with a more simplistic view of motivations may relate more to an imaginary motive that they use to justify a faux understanding and thus acceptance.)

[Rachel]

I think Cis do not put too much thought into the trans sexuality issue.

When confronted with the prospect they may pick a comfortable opinion instead of expressing their view.

I think it is a victim of fast thinking instead of slow thinking. Fast thinking is on the exterior and akin to what we hear and see and instinctively do to get by safely. Slow thinking is analyzing the subject, weighing the evidence and coming to a conclusion based on fact. Most of our daily interactions is based on fast thinking. We have bias based on fast thinking.

[Julia1996]

It was the opposite for my brother. When I first came out to him as trans one of the things he said was " you like guys which is good". I also had a female friend who was very touchy and huggy (yuck) and Tyler had noticed it and he asked me if I was thinking of hooking up with her and I told him god no! He said good, he was glad. So of course I had to ask him if he would still accept me if I became lesbian. He said of course he would but that if I started liking females it would be really weird and hard for him to get used to.

[CallMeKatie]

It was the opposite for my brother. When I first came out to him as trans one of the things he said was " you like guys which is good". I also had a female friend who was very touchy and huggy (yuck) and Tyler had noticed it and he asked me if I was thinking of hooking up with her and I told him god no! He said good, he was glad. So of course I had to ask him if he would still accept me if I became lesbian. He said of course he would but that if I started liking females it would be really weird and hard for him to get used to.

I think thats because he is your brother and doesn't have to play the " I'm a man" game around you.
If it's just a bunch of guys, it may be like my story as none of them want to say anything else other than "I like lesbians" to keep their man points.

Course I'm really happy your brother was actually normal about it

[CallMeKatie]

I think traditional standards of beauty or femininity definitely play a role in it. If they see an attractive, entirely passing transwoman they are far more likely to be okay with her liking guys without much thought. It's the same thing with gay guys. If a gay guy is effeminate, it's easier for straight cis men to wrap their heads around it.

Yesyesyes! It's like they are saying "If you are gay then make it so obvious so I know you are so I can act differently around you"

That's why I am in two minds about how people will react to me as I act male but I don't think male.
For me, acting as a stereotype female just isn't me.

I'm going to continue to press this topic with the guys and see how they go on

[pamelatransuk]

Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.

After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"

I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.

Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation. 

There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us.  People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male.  So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt.  It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.

Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.

Yes Katie, that is usually my experience when discussing ->-bleeped-<- in general discussion.

Yes Kathy, many sadly do not see our transition as what is it but they still cling to birth sex in their minds. Plus the regular misunderstanding that sexuality and gender are the same - the customary error in thinking.

Pamela

[Elis]

I was with my brother the other day who's not accepting. Still uses my dead pronouns either know he seems to get being trans is biologic not psychological.  Strange contradiction I know.  But I was saying to him how I'm gay and it doesn't make the guys I go with any less gay to be with me. And he seemed rather skeptical. It's understandably hard for most cis people at first to get their head around the fact parts doesn't equal sexuality; as that's all we're taught at school or by society. It's refreshing to meet so many gay men who fully understand this; but must have difficult to accept being with an ftm at first.