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Stevi's Saga

Started by Stevi, March 19, 2018, 04:20:15 PM

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Stevi

A little history.  I have been a member of Susan's Place for more than two years now.  A lurker for about six years before that.  I am not a frequent commenter and this is my first OP.

I am about to turn 68 years of age. After a lifetime of mostly chronic, low level gender dysphoria punctuated with an occasional acute episode which manifested itself with private crossdressing ( and the inevitable shame and purging ), about ten years ago I got the opportunity to explore more deeply while I found myself away from home, and my wife, for business related travel.

After realizing, about six years ago, that what was going on in my psyche was deeper than a crossdressing fetish (or hobby, if you prefer), I came out to my wife of then 44 years.  Over these six years she has progressed, sometimes reluctantly, along with me in coming to a "solution".  We have just recently come to a place that I am reasonably confident about how much I need and at the same time she has defined what she can accommodate.  She has come an incredibly long way. For me that is a non-surgical transition (started HRT for about six months ago) to full 24/7 living as a woman with her in my life as my wife in a physically intimate relationship. I am becoming more and more comfortable with being open about being a transgender woman. For her part, she wants very much for us to to continue in our relationship to "death do us part."  She still has a bit of a hangup about appearing to others as a lesbian since she is most decidedly heterosexual.  She says she will not refer to me as "my wife".   She has not come up with a suitable substitute other than sticking with "my husband".  If that is really what she wants, I'll take it.

Until we reached this point, we have avoided revealing to any of our somewhat large family and rather small circle of friends.  Depending on where we ended up there may have been no need for anyone else to ever know of this. Now that this point is here it is time to begin to tell the world.  At least our small part of the world.  The starting place is our older daughter.

You might note that I wrote "older daughter."  We have a younger daughter as well.  That daughter has been estranged from us for twenty years.  She never told us why.  She just callously turned away from us.  I say callously because, the last time we spoke with her was on her wedding day where she refused to have any pictures take with her mother and the one I was in was because I "pushed" my way into the shot and the photographer snapped before she could stop the moment.  I am sure the picture was not kept.  She allowed us to "participate" in that important event while not wishing us to be present at all.  That situation took me years to somewhat recover from and nearly took my life.  To this day, tears are only ever one thought away.

That is the background to my coming out to our older daughter.  This past Saturday, while visiting our daughter, I handed (I knew I could not have remained coherent for long enough to have said the words myself.) her a a carefully worded, repeatedly edited, two page letter that expressed my love, our love, for her and briefly recounted some of what has been part of my whole life and how her mother and I have determined to handle it going forward.  Now, understand that our daughter is liberal leaning and has numerous gay friends (She worked in cosmetology for many years.) so we had lots of reasons to feel that all would be well.  Still, we were very, very apprehensive.  I trembled as I waited for her to finish the letter.  When she did finish we were relieved when she gave me a  hug, told me she loved me, loved us and said everything was going to be OK.  We finished the weekend together and all seemed to be well when I hugged her, kissed her on the cheek and told her I loved her as she left for work early last Monday morning.  A little later, we drove to our home.

Her last communication with us was on Wednesday via email.  It was not terribly long.  It used the phrases "bad dream" and "death of my daddy"  She asked for more time to process.  She did not sign off with the usual "Love you both,".

I know she wants time to think.  I know she needs the time and the space to do that.  I am trying to be patient.  But it is hard. Very hard.  In her sister's case some twenty years ago I remember not knowing what to do.  I ended up not being pushy and allowing her time and space hoping she would come around.  Time did not fix it.  In the end, I don't think it could have turned out any worse than it has. I have not seen or heard from her since (other than some news photos on the internet and a brief encounter with her at her grandmother's, my wife's mother's, funeral where she pushed my wife away and ignored me entirely).  I know she has a daughter of her own that I am not likely to ever get to know.  I often wonder if I could have done something to have gotten a better outcome.  Now, with this present situation I am worried.  I do not want a replay of the past with my remaining child.

Making matters worse is the fact that my wife is now rethinking our plan.  So, it seems I could end up loosing both if our daughter turns away from my wife because of my "choices".  My wife may not forgive me for causing this lose.  Logically, my wife kinda understands that this is not really a choice.  But this is a time when emotions rule and emotions might just win out.

Since I started writing this OP,  my wife and I have managed to cry together and hug each other and better understand what each of us is thinking at the moment, so things seem a little less dire that when I started writing.  But I am still not breathing easily.  I have returned to dark thoughts that I thought were relegated to my past.  I am not in crisis but I was certainly much happier before this all came crashing down around me.

I don't know that I asking for anything more than a sympathetic ear to hear my words.  If you made it through to here, thank you for listening.

Stephanie   (My wife uses Stevi, you can, too.)
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cliffyman1953

Quote from: sterusjon on March 19, 2018, 04:20:15 PM
A little history.  I have been a member of Susan's Place for more than two years now.  A lurker for about six years before that.  I am not a frequent commenter and this is my first OP.

I am about to turn 68 years of age. After a lifetime of mostly chronic, low level gender dysphoria punctuated with an occasional acute episode which manifested itself with private crossdressing ( and the inevitable shame and purging ), about ten years ago I got the opportunity to explore more deeply while I found myself away from home, and my wife, for business related travel.

After realizing, about six years ago, that what was going on in my psyche was deeper than a crossdressing fetish (or hobby, if you prefer), I came out to my wife of then 44 years.  Over these six years she has progressed, sometimes reluctantly, along with me in coming to a "solution".  We have just recently come to a place that I am reasonably confident about how much I need and at the same time she has defined what she can accommodate.  She has come an incredibly long way. For me that is a non-surgical transition (started HRT for about six months ago) to full 24/7 living as a woman with her in my life as my wife in a physically intimate relationship. I am becoming more and more comfortable with being open about being a transgender woman. For her part, she wants very much for us to to continue in our relationship to "death do us part."  She still has a bit of a hangup about appearing to others as a lesbian since she is most decidedly heterosexual.  She says she will not refer to me as "my wife".   She has not come up with a suitable substitute other than sticking with "my husband".  If that is really what she wants, I'll take it.

Until we reached this point, we have avoided revealing to any of our somewhat large family and rather small circle of friends.  Depending on where we ended up there may have been no need for anyone else to ever know of this. Now that this point is here it is time to begin to tell the world.  At least our small part of the world.  The starting place is our older daughter.

You might note that I wrote "older daughter."  We have a younger daughter as well.  That daughter has been estranged from us for twenty years.  She never told us why.  She just callously turned away from us.  I say callously because, the last time we spoke with her was on her wedding day where she refused to have any pictures take with her mother and the one I was in was because I "pushed" my way into the shot and the photographer snapped before she could stop the moment.  I am sure the picture was not kept.  She allowed us to "participate" in that important event while not wishing us to be present at all.  That situation took me years to somewhat recover from and nearly took my life.  To this day, tears are only ever one thought away.

That is the background to my coming out to our older daughter.  This past Saturday, while visiting our daughter, I handed (I knew I could not have remained coherent for long enough to have said the words myself.) her a a carefully worded, repeatedly edited, two page letter that expressed my love, our love, for her and briefly recounted some of what has been part of my whole life and how her mother and I have determined to handle it going forward.  Now, understand that our daughter is liberal leaning and has numerous gay friends (She worked in cosmetology for many years.) so we had lots of reasons to feel that all would be well.  Still, we were very, very apprehensive.  I trembled as I waited for her to finish the letter.  When she did finish we were relieved when she gave me a  hug, told me she loved me, loved us and said everything was going to be OK.  We finished the weekend together and all seemed to be well when I hugged her, kissed her on the cheek and told her I loved her as she left for work early last Monday morning.  A little later, we drove to our home.

Her last communication with us was on Wednesday via email.  It was not terribly long.  It used the phrases "bad dream" and "death of my daddy"  She asked for more time to process.  She did not sign off with the usual "Love you both,".

I know she wants time to think.  I know she needs the time and the space to do that.  I am trying to be patient.  But it is hard. Very hard.  In her sister's case some twenty years ago I remember not knowing what to do.  I ended up not being pushy and allowing her time and space hoping she would come around.  Time did not fix it.  In the end, I don't think it could have turned out any worse than it has. I have not seen or heard from her since (other than some news photos on the internet and a brief encounter with her at her grandmother's, my wife's mother's, funeral where she pushed my wife away and ignored me entirely).  I know she has a daughter of her own that I am not likely to ever get to know.  I often wonder if I could have done something to have gotten a better outcome.  Now, with this present situation I am worried.  I do not want a replay of the past with my remaining child.

Making matters worse is the fact that my wife is now rethinking our plan.  So, it seems I could end up loosing both if our daughter turns away from my wife because of my "choices".  My wife may not forgive me for causing this lose.  Logically, my wife kinda understands that this is not really a choice.  But this is a time when emotions rule and emotions might just win out.

Since I started writing this OP,  my wife and I have managed to cry together and hug each other and better understand what each of us is thinking at the moment, so things seem a little less dire that when I started writing.  But I am still not breathing easily.  I have returned to dark thoughts that I thought were relegated to my past.  I am not in crisis but I was certainly much happier before this all came crashing down around me.

I don't know that I asking for anything more than a sympathetic ear to hear my words.  If you made it through to here, thank you for listening.

Stephanie   (My wife uses Stevi, you can, too.)
Hi Cliffy here what a wonderful  letter i am just a normal man well i must admit i do like t x dress if i can but your letter has warmed my heart i think you and your wife are very brave but honest with each other my relationship with my wife is hust a cuddle tme and no further but i love her so i contnue so continue on with your life enjoy your marriage sadly without your young daughter but be happy i hope my respnse brightens your heart and i will be here if yo want to communicte
Precious  thoughtsCliffy

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Donna

Sorry to hear your wife is rethinking it after all these years. It has to be tough thinkingnyou were progressing then find out maybe not 
My wife gets the same fear of being outed as lesbian which she is not.
We don't use husband and wife any more, it is Donna and Marilyn only and this is helping her. For me it's not an issue as she finds comfort in it.
Best of luck and happiness
December 2015 noticed strange feelings moving in
December 2016 started to understand what my body has been telling me all my life, started wearing a bra for comfort full time
Spiro and dutastricide 2017
Mid year 2017 Started dressing and going out shopping etc by myself
October T 14.8 / 456
Came out to my wife in December 2017
January 2018 dressing androgenes and still have face hair
Feb 2018 Dressing full time in female clothing out at work and to friends and family, clean shaven and make up
Living full time March 1 2018
March T 7.4 / 236
April 19th eligard injection, no more Testosterone
June 19th a brand new freshly trained HRT and transgender care doctor for me. Only a one day waiting list to become her patient 😍

[/
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Stevi

Cliffy,

Thank you for you kind thoughts and wishes.  There was a time i thought, maybe a better word is hoped, I was a crossdresser.  Alas, it was not to be.  I thought I finally had it sorted out then I get this curve ball Enjoy life where ever it is that you find yourself in it.

Stevi
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Jamina

Stephanie- I am so sorry that it is hard. It sounds like there are some complex dynamics at play and that makes it pretty hard to read between the lines so to speak. But one thing does pop up straight away which is that you guys all need to keep talking and loving each other, and as far as you can you need to be the dependable one while your loved ones deal with the impact of your coming out. Don't give up on your eldest. Give her space, but not the kind of space where she's out of your life- the kind of space where you spend time together and let everyone's problems be for a bit. Show her that she still has two parents, and that she doesn't have to deal with the 'death of her daddy.'

Everyone here understands why some of us take a long time to share our trans selves. But it is really hard for people close to you to discover that you've been holding on to secrets for a long time. It rocks foundations and can make our loved ones withdraw their trust. It takes time to rebuild, but once you do that hard work of rebuilding trust, they have a relationship with the real you, and it can have a much stronger foundation.

You're in the process. It's not easy and it's not quick, and it might be the rest of your life, but you are pointed into a future where nobody in your family has to hide out and everyone can be their true selves without fear. That's a gift to your great-great-grandchildren. Don't give up on any of it.
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Stevi

Donna,

Thanks.  We thought about just using first names.  There is something missing though.  My wife and I we celebrate out 50th on this coming August 8th.  We have never been sexually intimate with anyone except each other.  I am OK with what ever floats your particular boat but we are from a time and background where that was instilled into us as meaningful.  We are both proud of a solid, monogamous fifty year relationship that we hope continues to the day one of us dies.  That make the spousal relationship important to us and important for others to know if they are to truly know us.  So, you can see where my wife is coming from with this problem for her.  I do not really know what the solution is, yet.  I am beginning to think, though, that it lies in being willing to live openly as a transgender woman married to loving heterosexual woman and being open and proud about this now woman was for most of fifty years her husband and simply go by the nominal of husband.  If that bothers some friends, we'll simply find better friends.  If that bothers acquaintances, we'll simply get acquainted elsewhere.

Stevi
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Stevi

Jamina,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am trying to be the strong one.  I know that my daughter has been blind-sided so-to-speak.  I started this OP here to get some of the help I need while both my daughter and wife deal with things.  My wife has a therapist appointment on Wednesday and I am trying to help her as best I can.  I need for her to reassure me that we are still OK.  That has been missing and I find that I am addicted to being OK with her.  I went into serious withdrawal when I felt things were NOT OK with us.   A recent dose of hugs helped a lot.  Still need a few more doses, though.  One of the things she told me was that she was trying to avoid saying anything to me that she really did not mean.  She was, and still is to some degree, angry with me.  But she is trying to communicate constructively and, for a while, that means not communicating at all until she can get a handle on what is churning in her mind and emotions.  I am going to try and get by until after she gets face time with her therapist. 

As for our daughter, I have tried to strike a balance between contact and avoiding the appearance of pushing.  While we were with her, we talked about "Daddy" helping her with some overdue maintenance and updating of her condo.  Since her last communication with us, I sent an email, suggesting that we come up to her place and get started on some of that this coming weekend.  I made no mention of the tough issue before us.  Just "Daddy" doing what this daddy has always done for his little girl. There has not been any acknowledgement of that suggestion.  Don't know if she got it, read it or anything.  Now I am stuck with trying to figure out if and when I should just call and talk with her  about going up to see her.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.  What shall I do? What shall I do?

Thanks for the therapy,
Stevi
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Tommi

I do not envy you your road. I feel like I won the lottery sometimes when I see the hardship so many here face. This type of situation happening is part of why I was so afraid to come out. "Spouse" is a nice gender neutral term with the gravitas of "marriage" behind it. My wife does not consider herself a lesbian. She says she's a "Tommisexual" :) Love and kindness to you and yours. I hope this all works out for you in a way that sits ok for you all; Bit, For you, most of all.

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cliffyman1953

Quote from: Donna on March 19, 2018, 05:31:11 PM
Sorry to hear your wife is rethinking it after all these years. It has to be tough thinkingnyou were progressing then find out maybe not 
My wife gets the same fear of being outed as lesbian which she is not.
We don't use husband and wife any more, it is Donna and Marilyn only and this is helping her. For me it's not an issue as she finds comfort in it.
Best of luck and happiness
Donna
Stick in there things will get better you and your wife will enjoy life together
Cliffy

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cliffyman1953

Quote from: sterusjon on March 19, 2018, 06:52:05 PM
Jamina,

Thanks for your thoughts. I am trying to be the strong one.  I know that my daughter has been blind-sided so-to-speak.  I started this OP here to get some of the help I need while both my daughter and wife deal with things.  My wife has a therapist appointment on Wednesday and I am trying to help her as best I can.  I need for her to reassure me that we are still OK.  That has been missing and I find that I am addicted to being OK with her.  I went into serious withdrawal when I felt things were NOT OK with us.   A recent dose of hugs helped a lot.  Still need a few more doses, though.  One of the things she told me was that she was trying to avoid saying anything to me that she really did not mean.  She was, and still is to some degree, angry with me.  But she is trying to communicate constructively and, for a while, that means not communicating at all until she can get a handle on what is churning in her mind and emotions.  I am going to try and get by until after she gets face time with her therapist. 

As for our daughter, I have tried to strike a balance between contact and avoiding the appearance of pushing.  While we were with her, we talked about "Daddy" helping her with some overdue maintenance and updating of her condo.  Since her last communication with us, I sent an email, suggesting that we come up to her place and get started on some of that this coming weekend.  I made no mention of the tough issue before us.  Just "Daddy" doing what this daddy has always done for his little girl. There has not been any acknowledgement of that suggestion.  Don't know if she got it, read it or anything.  Now I am stuck with trying to figure out if and when I should just call and talk with her  about going up to see her.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.  What shall I do? What shall I do?

Thanks for the therapy,
Stevi
Hey always a pleasure to be a friend and some help you will be ok and if your wife truly loves you she will come around and if you ae able to help your daughter do i she will appreciate  it and realise she has not lost her Dad

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cliffyman1953

Quote from: sterusjon on March 19, 2018, 06:18:19 PM
Donna,

Thanks.  We thought about just using first names.  There is something missing though.  My wife and I we celebrate out 50th on this coming August 8th.  We have never been sexually intimate with anyone except each other.  I am OK with what ever floats your particular boat but we are from a time and background where that was instilled into us as meaningful.  We are both proud of a solid, monogamous fifty year relationship that we hope continues to the day one of us dies.  That make the spousal relationship important to us and important for others to know if they are to truly know us.  So, you can see where my wife is coming from with this problem for her.  I do not really know what the solution is, yet.  I am beginning to think, though, that it lies in being willing to live openly as a transgender woman married to loving heterosexual woman and being open and proud about this now woman was for most of fifty years her husband and simply go by the nominal of husband.  If that bothers some friends, we'll simply find better friends.  If that bothers acquaintances, we'll simply get acquainted elsewhere.

Stevi
Stefi
If you can pleasure  your wife as she wants and show her lots of love then she will except you as her lover her friend her husband her partner surely being more feminine  will show her the tenderness you have for her but still be able to please her  to me she should realise she has the beest of both worlds stick with it
Cliffy

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Stevi

Tommi,


We kicked the "Spouse" idea around but it didn't tickle her fancy at the time.   We'll have to revisit the topic after this present crisis passes.  More than anything, maybe, it is trying to change her habits.  That makes most any other designation problematic if she is resisting change.

Cliffy,

We are sexually interactive.  But six months of the little blue pills (estrogen) and two months of the little pink pills (progesterone) has had its effect on functionality.  We have found ways to improvise and we are making progress on that front.

Might be a good idea to prepare for bedtime and see if she is up a little something more than sleep.  Thanks for thoughts.

Good night all,

Stevi
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Stevi

Thanks Team for changing my username.

:icon_joy:
Stevi
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Stevi

Good morning,

Today is a better day.  Had a good night and even got a little sleep.  My wife and I appear to be OK. OK is really good if you get my drift.

We are still worried about our daughter but not worried so much about ourselves, us.

I did wake up before the sun and lie in bed pondering something.  You see, last month I, as Stephanie, ask my wife to marry me again as Stephanie on our fiftieth wedding anniversary, August 8th.   I told her she had the say on how big a deal we made of it.  You see, fifty years ago, we eloped as 18 year olds to Florence, SC.  We could get married at 18 without parental consent, no blood test and only a 24 hr waiting period.  This time around, I gave her the option to decide how big a deal to make of it for a couple of reasons.  I am good with a bigger deal than the first time where we appeared before a justice of the peace and had strangers for witnesses.  But, if she is uncomfortable with a public ceremony with me in my female form it is OK with me that we do a very small, very private reaffirmation of our vows with each of us in simple attire.  If she wants the fancy dress she didn't get the first time that is fine with me.  If she wants a bigger to-do, I would love to stand before a gathering of family and friends, each of us in formal, gender appropriate attire and say "I do!" all over again.  (By the way, she has excitedly told a couple of her girl friends of my proposal, but she hasn't said "Yes." to me.  Her girl friends are giving her a hard time about that and she deserves it, I think.  ;D)  Anyway, what I was pondering was the things I would like to say to her and anyone that is there to witness the event.  We have, on the whole, had a good life together and I cannot imagine not finishing it together,  I want to tell her loudly and proudly for the world to hear.

Stevi
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Tommi

Quote from: Stevi on March 20, 2018, 11:07:18 AM
Good morning,

Today is a better day.  Had a good night and even got a little sleep.  My wife and I appear to be OK. OK is really good if you get my drift.

We are still worried about our daughter but not worried so much about ourselves, us.

I did wake up before the sun and lie in bed pondering something.  You see, last month I, as Stephanie, ask my wife to marry me again as Stephanie on our fiftieth wedding anniversary, August 8th.   I told her she had the say on how big a deal we made of it.  You see, fifty years ago, we eloped as 18 year olds to Florence, SC.  We could get married at 18 without parental consent, no blood test and only a 24 hr waiting period.  This time around, I gave her the option to decide how big a deal to make of it for a couple of reasons.  I am good with a bigger deal than the first time where we appeared before a justice of the peace and had strangers for witnesses.  But, if she is uncomfortable with a public ceremony with me in my female form it is OK with me that we do a very small, very private reaffirmation of our vows with each of us in simple attire.  If she wants the fancy dress she didn't get the first time that is fine with me.  If she wants a bigger to-do, I would love to stand before a gathering of family and friends, each of us in formal, gender appropriate attire and say "I do!" all over again.  (By the way, she has excitedly told a couple of her girl friends of my proposal, but she hasn't said "Yes." to me.  Her girl friends are giving her a hard time about that and she deserves it, I think.  ;D)  Anyway, what I was pondering was the things I would like to say to her and anyone that is there to witness the event.  We have, on the whole, had a good life together and I cannot imagine not finishing it together,  I want to tell her loudly and proudly for the world to hear.

Stevi
That is lovely!

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Stevi

Well, my greatest fear has been realized.  This is the central point of our daughter's last brief communication to us.  "Please stop contacting me."

I fear I will not survive this time.

Stevi :icon_cry2:
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Tommi

What the, actual, hell? I'm so sorry to hear this :(

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Stevi

While I do not believe I deserve this treatment from our daughter, at least I am the legitimate target of her anger, disgust hate or whatever it is that has possessed her.  But my dear wife does not deserve any of this.  She has been rejected for something that was none of her doing.  Her only "crime" was to stand by me when I needed her most.  How can our daughter be so unkind to her mother?  I cannot even begin to fathom it.

There is no fix for this.  The genie has been let out and cannot be stuffed back into the bottle. 

Devastated,
Stevi

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Donna

I feel for you. This is a terrible place to be put in by a child. My wife and I are second marriages and are happy together. However her youngest son(43) will have nothing to do with her because of me. She can't see them or the grand kids and daily calls have dropped to once every couple weeks.
Kids can be so >-bleeped-<ty after spending your life raising them.
December 2015 noticed strange feelings moving in
December 2016 started to understand what my body has been telling me all my life, started wearing a bra for comfort full time
Spiro and dutastricide 2017
Mid year 2017 Started dressing and going out shopping etc by myself
October T 14.8 / 456
Came out to my wife in December 2017
January 2018 dressing androgenes and still have face hair
Feb 2018 Dressing full time in female clothing out at work and to friends and family, clean shaven and make up
Living full time March 1 2018
March T 7.4 / 236
April 19th eligard injection, no more Testosterone
June 19th a brand new freshly trained HRT and transgender care doctor for me. Only a one day waiting list to become her patient 😍

[/
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HappyMoni

That is awful to hear Stevi, I am so sorry. I only hope that time might change her feelings. You don't deserve that treatment either. If you only had a third party who could talk to her and find out her thinking. Hugs! Hang in there!
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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