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FTM: How do people treat you differently than before transition?

Started by KarlMars, March 29, 2018, 07:16:25 AM

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KarlMars

Have you noticed people treating you differently than before you passed as male? Especially people who didn't know you before. This question is for FTM only please.

WolfNightV4X1

Definitely more guys talk to me and I feel like I can actually make friends with them instead of the awkward attraction-based separation.  (The downside is I can no longer befriend girls because I don't want to seem like I'm hitting on them).  I'm not called "sweetie" or "honey" by old men,  and only by old ladies sometimes.
Basically,  I'm not seen as small and pretty and helpless. 

People actually see me as more capable,  surprisingly.  At work people ask me to reach the tall shelf even though I'm not that much taller,  they ask me to get the scary bugs that I love to handle,  I lift heavy objects and work hard so they see my strength as a male, and also I'm pretty needy for free food when I it's available leading my coworker to see me as a typical  hungry teenage boy.

One time I was trying to run home because I forgot my wallet,  I went to the wrong house and jostled the door which was locked, some guy I never met came out and shoved me on my chest,  turns out it wasn't my house,  I definitely deserved that,  and I bet I would've never been shoved if this guy saw I was a girl that made that mistake.


I'm still not treated as a typical guy more or less because I have a lot of anxiety,  I'm pretty low key and mellow,  and I'm not really super aggressive or anything.  People still seem to treat me as another guy and on a given day I get called "dude", "buddy", "bro", "boss" or any variation of masculine greetings.


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Kylo

Yeah, guys are more approachable, depending on how you act around women they're either more cagey or quite flirty. Just because she's being playful does not mean she's unattached though, lol. Like WolfNight said that means you could get lamped. I don't have trouble befriending women, I just avoid flirting with them myself (which sometimes means they do it more with you); I think it just comes down to some very subtle body language cues there when you're trying to show friendliness but no sexual interest. I'm not nervous around them at all so that doesn't give off any of those vibes, but at the same time I keep a certain distance and avoid complimenting appearance etc. and talk about other things. 

I don't get people "worrying" about my safety or thinking I can't lift something by myself. That's different from before. You shouldn't expect people to help you with stuff like that when you're a dude because they usually won't, which is fine by me because I've never expected any help. I'm not sure if people see me as a beacon of masculinity given I'm not 6'4", but they do tend to respect you if you have a no-crap attitude, are serious and capable about your work, and have a stable personality. I haven't got myself into any fights, but it goes without saying that's much more likely to happen than it was before, even if it's pure accident. People definitely assume I'm a lot younger than I am, so I have to deal with that but it has its advantages.

They used to ask me to do things like catch bugs and attempt to fix cars and generally do things nobody else wanted to get their hands dirty doing before so not much change there. People used to rely on me for a lot of stuff and it's about the same now.

I find the friendship between men actualized, the sort of thing I wanted before but couldn't quite get because a lot of them were attracted and behaved differently. But on the whole I think a lot of women treat men as if they're a completely different species, and they too will often act different around them. That becomes visible when you have female relatives and you can see the ones that treat you differently versus the ones who treat you the same as they used to, but with a different "slant" on it. In some ways, the ideas people have about what men want are very cartoonish. I suppose it's the same for women. But I've noticed it creeping in even among people who know me well. They think I'm afraid of the colour pink, for example. I'm not, I just don't much like it and would avoid wearing it. But now they sort assume I have a full blown "allergy" to it, etc. There's this idea men are insecure about a bunch of things that is like a running joke in society, and I'm not insecure about any of it, but I get the joke and I don't really mind. It's easy to laugh at yourself and everything else when you're actually not insecure.

What WolfNight said about food as well. If you are on the skinny side, prepare to have people thinking you're starving to death. Prepare to have store security eye you with a bit more suspicion, same with the police. Comes with the territory of being considered capable. Can't bat your eyelashes to get out of any of that if you find yourself being questioned by police. If you buzz your hair off, expect that to go up x 10. In fact.... yeah, the hairstyle you have as a man does tend to send more signals to people than women's does in that respect. Very long or very short hair can rub people the wrong way.

One thing I noticed socially is people are much more aware or sensitive if I'm being annoyed by someone or something and they seem more concerned. They will try to calm me down. That did not happen before. I assume it's because they think I'm going to act on my anger. And it does rattle people more. This isn't like a significant change - I mean I think I mentioned here on the boards elsewhere that I noticed I could intimidate people even unintentionally before, which was frustrating, but now it's even easier to do so I find myself trying to maintain a neutral sort of vibe. A lot is down to a person's looks, I guess. I just happen to have a face/eyes that look frosty to people. Learning about body language helped me out with that.

People close do treat me differently, and so does my family. There's been a shift toward lots of playful ribbing and less people confiding in me. Although my dad has got closer, my mother has drifted further away. Whether that's due to our personal differences or due to her not getting along with men I don't know. My male friends I talk to much more often than I used to, or rather they talk to me more often than they used to. My female friends tend to check in less. I don't know if that's due to the same or if they just have more going on in their lives right now or what. But some of them are still close friends and we talk about everything, any subject.



     
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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KarlMars

All sounds good. Hopefully I'll actually have the strength to lift the stuff if someone wants me to. Now I'm weaker than most women.

Allison S

Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on March 29, 2018, 11:41:47 PM
Definitely more guys talk to me and I feel like I can actually make friends with them instead of the awkward attraction-based separation.  (The downside is I can no longer befriend girls because I don't want to seem like I'm hitting on them).  I'm not called "sweetie" or "honey" by old men,  and only by old ladies sometimes.
Basically,  I'm not seen as small and pretty and helpless. 

People actually see me as more capable,  surprisingly.  At work people ask me to reach the tall shelf even though I'm not that much taller,  they ask me to get the scary bugs that I love to handle,  I lift heavy objects and work hard so they see my strength as a male, and also I'm pretty needy for free food when I it's available leading my coworker to see me as a typical  hungry teenage boy.

One time I was trying to run home because I forgot my wallet,  I went to the wrong house and jostled the door which was locked, some guy I never met came out and shoved me on my chest,  turns out it wasn't my house,  I definitely deserved that,  and I bet I would've never been shoved if this guy saw I was a girl that made that mistake.


I'm still not treated as a typical guy more or less because I have a lot of anxiety,  I'm pretty low key and mellow,  and I'm not really super aggressive or anything.  People still seem to treat me as another guy and on a given day I get called "dude", "buddy", "bro", "boss" or any variation of masculine greetings.
What's attraction-based seperation? And I'm mtf 6 months hrt and I still get called "buddy, boss, sir" by strangers [emoji17] I hate it so much but I never correct them..

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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WolfNightV4X1

Quote from: Allison S on March 30, 2018, 09:14:21 PM
What's attraction-based seperation? And I'm mtf 6 months hrt and I still get called "buddy, boss, sir" by strangers [emoji17] I hate it so much but I never correct them..

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Woops, yeah sorry it was late and I figured that wording was a little off but went with it anyways. What I mean is when you usually socialize with someone of the opposite sex, it's a little hard to have a legitimate relationship instead of them falling automatically seeing you as a potential mate, I'm just going by how polarized society tends to be on heterosexuality. Most guys wouldnt make friends with or talk to a girl the same they would other guys. That's not to say this is the same for every guy or girl...I don't know how to explain but that's the best way I can come across that.


---

While on the topic, another way people treat me differently I forgot to mention is they don't automatically assume I like girl stuff...because I'm a "girl", this wasn't accurate beforehand and I didnt really present super femininely, but regardless people would always assume I know things about makeup and whatever. I was put on a small team to help boost our cosmetics sales, and this team basically consisted of all girls, because apparently as a girl I should know about this stuff. When I transitioned, all the old ladies who needed help with cosmetics would take one look at me and ask for a woman who works there instead, it's nice because I wouldnt have been able to help them anyways.

I know this is all stereotypes and gender role based here, but I've always been more on the masculine side and people actually expect that of me which makes me feel good. I don't mind being femme either, and if people are a bit shocked by that I'll gladly be a gender deviant to that degree.


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Ryuichi13

I love being treated as "just one of the guys!" 

I belong to a local anime club, and we had to have a Staff meeting a few weeks ago, we ended up talking about cars (somewhat interesting to me), WWII, (not really interesting to me), and video games and the debates on why one particular company seems to be losing fans (somewhat interesting to me).  In other words, there was no "awkward female moments" during it at all, it was simply a group of guys hanging out and talking about the club and girlfriends and whatnot.  It was fun!  Mind you, these men only know me as male.  I'm not stealth, but my AFAB status is meaningless for people other than my transmale partner or doctors to know about.

When I go out, I am called "sir/Mr/dude/guy and I even got my very first "buddy" the other day when I took my car in for an emissions test!  I grinned all the way home!

Before I transitioned, I was more androgynous in my attitude, and I was more often than not referred to by "miss/ma'am/etc," probably because I'm not exactly a teenager anymore. ;) 

I much prefer being referred to with male pronouns than being referred to as an older/mature woman!

I also notice that when I go to the grocery store, women tend to look at me either with curiosity (I've been called a pretty boy before) or with "Oh he's a guy, I should watch out."  I'm not sure if its because I wear a Australian hat with political buttons on it all the time, because I'm a African-American man or because I'm more serious than I was pre-T.  I'm well aware that people tend to view you as "crazy" if you smile to yourself, something that I used to do before transitioning, so I'm less prone to doing so.  It also doens't help that I'm usually listening to music in my headset when I shop alone, so I often don't notice when someone asks me something.

Ryuichi   

 


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Laurel D

Quote from: KarlMars on March 29, 2018, 07:16:25 AM
Have you noticed people treating you differently than before you passed as male? Especially people who didn't know you before. This question is for FTM only please.
Sometimes people are more gentle with me when they speak me.


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randomdude5

People avoid walking right next to me on the sidewalk when we are going opposite directions! Mainly women will step like 2 meters out to the side and let me walk by, but I have had both men and women actually cross the street to the other sidewalk to not walk by me. (And it was not because they had to turn, I kept looking back to check lol.) I don't really get it because I am not even that big, but maybe its the way I walk... WHO KNOWS!

But I don't bite! :(
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KarlMars

Quote from: randomdude5 on March 31, 2018, 08:25:00 PM
People avoid walking right next to me on the sidewalk when we are going opposite directions! Mainly women will step like 2 meters out to the side and let me walk by, but I have had both men and women actually cross the street to the other sidewalk to not walk by me. (And it was not because they had to turn, I kept looking back to check lol.) I don't really get it because I am not even that big, but maybe its the way I walk... WHO KNOWS!

But I don't bite! :(

I think that has it's pros and cons.

Peep

I think people treat me the same... I don't pass badly until i start to talk or if i'm somewhere you wouldn't expect to see a 17 y/o boy... but i haven't really noticed a difference, no one overtly misgenders me but it's clear they don't see me as masculine

for example i have a cis female friend who makes jewellery and she offered to make me earrings (not inherently ~feminine~ but the ones she makes kind of are and she's only made them for girls so far)... then everyone was surprised that I've never had my ears pierced.

I'm also a trained jeweller... but my (cis) boyfriend is a jeweller too and no one is ever surprised that he doesn't wear jewellery and has no piercings.
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KarlMars

Quote from: Peep on April 01, 2018, 05:21:28 AM
I think people treat me the same... I don't pass badly until i start to talk or if i'm somewhere you wouldn't expect to see a 17 y/o boy... but i haven't really noticed a difference, no one overtly misgenders me but it's clear they don't see me as masculine

for example i have a cis female friend who makes jewellery and she offered to make me earrings (not inherently ~feminine~ but the ones she makes kind of are and she's only made them for girls so far)... then everyone was surprised that I've never had my ears pierced.

I'm also a trained jeweller... but my (cis) boyfriend is a jeweller too and no one is ever surprised that he doesn't wear jewellery and has no piercings.

Have you medically transitioned?

SeptagonScars

I only noticed some rather vague differences, comparing how I got treated while appearing female vs. appearing male. However it's difficult to know how to judge the 4 years in my transition when I pretty much passed 50-50 and appeared very androgynous no matter what I did. So I'll only judge the times I was clearly perceived as either male or female, before and after that long grey-zone.

Before, people were slightly more likely to be over-protective of me, like to an embarrassing degree, when I was upset or hurting.
- Now people are slightly more likely to think I can handle myself, but most of the time both before and after, people have been/are protective to a reasonable degree.

Before, people were more likely to show care or support when I talked about having been through sexual assault.
- After I started passing as male, people have been more likely to be rude about it or think of it as funny.

Before, I got free drinks at bars/clubs, from both men and women.
- Since after passing, that happens extremely rarely, and it's only been gay/bi men who've flirted with me. Much more likely I'm the one to offer free drinks, to both friends and guys I've flirted with.

Before, I was not expected to move for others or open doors, etc.
- Nowadays, if I don't move/open doors I'm given the death stare and sometimes am called rude things.

Before, when going to a heavy metal concert I was often very wild, rude and even brutal in the crowd close to the stage and no one cared.
- When I was somewhat passing as male I went to one more such concert and was my usual wild, rude and brutal self but it nearly resulted in being given a black eye... so that wasn't appreciated.

Before, cis guys were more likely uncomfortable/withdrawn around me, with the exception of other aspies and drunk friends, pretty much. Women were much more likely to approach me. (I don't mean sexually though, I've never been approacked by a woman flirting, before or after).
- Now, men and women seem equally likely to approach me, although for some reason middle aged women seem to flock around me nowadays... I don't mind though, they're usually kind and interesting people.

This is a weird one. Nowadays I'm expected to walk on the outer side of a sidewalk when crossing paths with a woman on the same sidewalk, but no such expectation when it's another man. This seems to be some weird, unspoken, hidden "rule" that I've just uncovered. I don't like it much, cause it gives me bad vibes, as if it's something to do with the idea that men are supposedly disposable while women supposedly should be protected at all times. Like nope, I don't want to risk my life by almost walking out in the street on a very narrow sidewalk for some random woman I don't even know. But whatever. It's a pet peeve.

On a more general note, these days I do feel like I'm treated with more respect and am being taken more seriously, but really, I think that has a lot more to do with that I'm 10 years older now and people tend to in general treat 29 yo's with more respect than 19 yo's. My sister who's 2 years younger than me but is cis has noticed the same kind of effect with her social life. So it's likely not trans-related for me either.
Mar. 2009 - came out as ftm
Nov. 2009 - changed my name to John
Mar. 2010 - diagnosed with GID
Aug. 2010 - started T, then stopped after 1 year
Aug. 2013 - started T again, kept taking it since
Mar. 2014 - top surgery
Dec. 2014 - legal gender marker changed to male
*
Jul. 2018 - came out as cis woman and began detransition
Sep. 2018 - stopped taking T and changed my name to Laura
Oct. 2018 - got new ID-card

Medical Detransition plans: breast reconstruction surgery, change legal gender back to female.
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Peep

Quote from: KarlMars on April 01, 2018, 08:28:44 AM
Have you medically transitioned?

I'm 4 months on T & if I bind properly I get pretty much totally flat

I had a mustache pre T & could usually pass as a teenager but not so much as a 26 y/o
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Peep

Quote from: SeptagonScars on April 01, 2018, 06:13:11 PM
Before, I got free drinks at bars/clubs, from both men and women.
- Since after passing, that happens extremely rarely, and it's only been gay/bi men who've flirted with me. Much more likely I'm the one to offer free drinks, to both friends and guys I've flirted with.

in regards to drinks, do you ever notice that if a bartender thinks you're female, you're more likely to get given a straw with a spirit & mixer? I used to joke about this a lot & i've always wondered if anyone else has noticed
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SeptagonScars

Quote from: Peep on April 01, 2018, 06:17:37 PM
in regards to drinks, do you ever notice that if a bartender thinks you're female, you're more likely to get given a straw with a spirit & mixer? I used to joke about this a lot & i've always wondered if anyone else has noticed

No, that seems to just depend on the bar/club and how stressed the bartender is, like if it's very crowded and busy they're less likely to bother with giving me a straw. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to depend on which gender I've appeared to be.
Mar. 2009 - came out as ftm
Nov. 2009 - changed my name to John
Mar. 2010 - diagnosed with GID
Aug. 2010 - started T, then stopped after 1 year
Aug. 2013 - started T again, kept taking it since
Mar. 2014 - top surgery
Dec. 2014 - legal gender marker changed to male
*
Jul. 2018 - came out as cis woman and began detransition
Sep. 2018 - stopped taking T and changed my name to Laura
Oct. 2018 - got new ID-card

Medical Detransition plans: breast reconstruction surgery, change legal gender back to female.
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Peep

idk i've been in some pretty busy bars and clubs and still got a straw a piece of lime & called 'love' or 'hen' by the barman...
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KarlMars

Quote from: Peep on April 02, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
idk i've been in some pretty busy bars and clubs and still got a straw a piece of lime & called 'love' or 'hen' by the barman...

Maybe he just thinks you're hot.

Kylo

Don't think I've ever been given a straw in my drinks except abroad or in fancy restaurants

Most bars probably don't bother unless you ask since it costs them money. Was the excuse when I worked in them anyway
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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SeptagonScars

Quote from: Peep on April 02, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
idk i've been in some pretty busy bars and clubs and still got a straw a piece of lime & called 'love' or 'hen' by the barman...

Well, maybe it's just that particular bartender and/or those specific places? Or it could be that female-appearing people are more likely to get a straw where you've been, but not where I've been.
Mar. 2009 - came out as ftm
Nov. 2009 - changed my name to John
Mar. 2010 - diagnosed with GID
Aug. 2010 - started T, then stopped after 1 year
Aug. 2013 - started T again, kept taking it since
Mar. 2014 - top surgery
Dec. 2014 - legal gender marker changed to male
*
Jul. 2018 - came out as cis woman and began detransition
Sep. 2018 - stopped taking T and changed my name to Laura
Oct. 2018 - got new ID-card

Medical Detransition plans: breast reconstruction surgery, change legal gender back to female.
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