Transphobes

[KarlMars]

Do you think transphobic people feel that their own gender identity is being challenged in some way and are insecure about it?

[Deborah]

Do you think transphobic people feel that their own gender identity is being challenged in some way and are insecure about it?

No.  For the most part the ones I've known fall into two categories.  Some are indoctrinated by religion and told what to think.  The rest are indoctrinated by Fox News and told what to think.


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[Devlyn]

Negrophobia, Chinaphobia, Mexiphobia....see how stupid all those sound?

Transphobia belongs in the same basket.

It's not about fear, it's about bigotry.

[KarlMars]

Some of the people I know that claim gender is biological and the same as sex have been people who didn't fit their own gender norms they believed in. For example a woman who likes football and science fiction claiming to follow traditional gender roles. She apparently wore the pants in her straight marriage as well.

[AnamethatstartswithE]

I think a lot of people find the concept of transitioning "icky" and they look around for some justification for their disgust.

Others feel a sense of security from feeling that they understand everything there is to understand about life. Someone who is trans is upsetting that presumed knowledge which is threatening to the persons sense of security.

[Julia1996]

My uncle and grandpa think being a man is absolutely the best thing in the world. They consider being born male totally lucky. To them someone who would give up the " great privilege " of being a man is unthinkable and anyone who would do that must surely be mentally disturbed and quite sick.

[Michelle_P]

For many people we represent an "outside context problem", something that lies outside of their experience and therefore has no basis that they can relate to.

For persons without gender incongruity the thought that gender might be different from biological sex and genitalia at birth is unfathomable. Some persons can intellectually accept this new concept, but for others such acceptance would violate deeply held beliefs.

The thought that gender identity could be different from assigned sex at birth is difficult enough to accept. The thought that gender presentation and role are performative and independent of both gender identity and assigned sex at birth, and can be changed is just too much for some, with its tacit violation of cultural taboos.



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[Kylo]

Seems to be a few different reasons behind the phobia in people.

One is that they might face a sexual situation with a trans person they didn't intend. They view trans people as "masquerading" as what they thought that person was. Why this elicits such a massive fear and disgust response in some people I'm not sure, aside from the trust issue, but I suppose when it comes to sexual selection people's sense of attraction or disgust about anyone is heightened. 

Another is that people fear an "epidemic" of trans people and the dissolution of sociey's safe and familiar gender and sexual boundaries. It's akin to the "gay panic" at points in history or in some societies. But lately these people have a certain amount of "evidence" that we are increasing in number; there is the fear that children will be encouraged to be like us in schools or the slightly more silly one of people just "catching the trans" somehow. That there will be a fashion trend of transsexuality etc. It's not that these people fear you are challenging their personal boundaries, it's that they fear society "going down the toilet" because "common sense norms" are disappearing.

Some religious types just see it as more work of the devil. Because Armageddon is always conveniently just on the edge of happening, and everything's a sign, innit.

[Devlyn]

Devyl. Spell it right. 

[KarlMars]

Seems to be a few different reasons behind the phobia in people.

One is that they might face a sexual situation with a trans person they didn't intend. They view trans people as "masquerading" as what they thought that person was. Why this elicits such a massive fear and disgust response in some people I'm not sure, aside from the trust issue, but I suppose when it comes to sexual selection people's sense of attraction or disgust about anyone is heightened. 

Another is that people fear an "epidemic" of trans people and the dissolution of sociey's safe and familiar gender and sexual boundaries. It's akin to the "gay panic" at points in history or in some societies. But lately these people have a certain amount of "evidence" that we are increasing in number; there is the fear that children will be encouraged to be like us in schools or the slightly more silly one of people just "catching the trans" somehow. That there will be a fashion trend of transsexuality etc. It's not that these people fear you are challenging their personal boundaries, it's that they fear society "going down the toilet" because "common sense norms" are disappearing.

Some religious types just see it as more work of the devil. Because Armageddon is always conveniently just on the edge of happening, and everything's a sign, innit.

You always hit the nail on the head.

[Gertrude]

Do you think transphobic people feel that their own gender identity is being challenged in some way and are insecure about it?

It's their core beliefs from their childhood indoctrination that are challenged. The vast majority of people never question those beliefs nor understand them or why they believe what they believe.


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[Deborah]

It's their core beliefs from their childhood indoctrination that are challenged. The vast majority of people never question those beliefs nor understand them or why they believe what they believe.


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Right.  The majority of people, probably everywhere, don't spend much time in independent critical and logical research or thought.  They are content to believe what their authority figure tells them whether that authority figure is religious, political, or something else.

For evidence of this simply look at the high success of the propaganda machine in Germany in the 1930s or more recently in the USA over the past 25 years.

[Gertrude]

Right.  The majority of people, probably everywhere, don't spend much time in independent critical and logical research or thought.  They are content to believe what their authority figure tells them whether that authority figure is religious, political, or something else.

For evidence of this simply look at the high success of the propaganda machine in Germany in the 1930s or more recently in the USA over the past 25 years.

A good study of that was Edward Bernays. He was the father of modern advertising and propaganda. It's all in the narrative that aligns with internal beliefs of those that you want to persuade. I am a horrible persuader. Often right about things, but bad at selling it. Some people can sell anything.

[Lady Sarah]

Where I live, it is wise to just let people believe I was born female, for the very reasons stated on this thread. Small minds tend to follow what the figureheads tell them, especially in a community that is so highly conservative.
There are many that follow the fear mongering issues, such as "men going into little girl's restrooms". When it was an issue here in Texas, I've been a lot of posts of Facebook denouncing it as rubbish. Yet, in public, the same people act like the bathroom bills are the best thing since sliced bread.
So much of it is all about peer pressure, and trying to have validation from those peers, even when it stands against their core beliefs.

[Gertrude]

Where I live, it is wise to just let people believe I was born female, for the very reasons stated on this thread. Small minds tend to follow what the figureheads tell them, especially in a community that is so highly conservative.
There are many that follow the fear mongering issues, such as "men going into little girl's restrooms". When it was an issue here in Texas, I've been a lot of posts of Facebook denouncing it as rubbish. Yet, in public, the same people act like the bathroom bills are the best thing since sliced bread.
So much of it is all about peer pressure, and trying to have validation from those peers, even when it stands against their core beliefs.

And that's why I'd never live in a southern state. Maybe Austin is different or Marfa, but I don't know. I wouldn't want to live somewhere I wasn't accepted.


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[big kim]

Bet plenty transphobes would love to wear stockings & high heels!

[Miharu Barbie]

I believe that there is an often over looked and extremely deep-seated cultural fear of what others think about us in Western cultures. And with good cause.  For centuries people who thought, behaved and believed outside the Judeo-Christian norm were tortured and burned at the stake for it.  For centuries!  That kind of deep cultural memory persists long after the practice of literally burning heretics at the stake has ended.

Culturally speaking, it is much safer to be on the side that is judging, pointing the finger, and lighting the torches.  I believe that we of the transgendered ilk are doing the work of the angels. We are expanding human experience beyond its former boundaries.  We are at the razor's edge of evolutionary expansion.

I love and admire everyone here at Susan's Place for your courage and determination to claim your birth-right to live authentically in the face of cultural judgement and danger.  I am so proud of us!

Love,
Miharu

[Michelle_P]

Bet plenty transphobes would love to wear stockings & high heels!

A fair number already do. It's not just men that are transphobic.

I have another shot at convincing some on Thursday with s Women's Group presentation.


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[Lady Sarah]

And that's why I'd never live in a southern state. Maybe Austin is different or Marfa, but I don't know. I wouldn't want to live somewhere I wasn't accepted.


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Since I don't go around bursting bubbles by announcing I am trans, I am free to live in my tiny town where I have family, as opposed to moving someplace where I know nobody. I have done plenty of that.
I was not raised here, so nobody knows my past. In that, I am grateful.

[Gertrude]

Since I don't go around bursting bubbles by announcing I am trans, I am free to live in my tiny town where I have family, as opposed to moving someplace where I know nobody. I have done plenty of that.
I was not raised here, so nobody knows my past. In that, I am grateful.

I don't think I'd pass well enough and I don't have family even where I am outside of my wife and kids. My family for the most part is in NY and FL. I think most trans folks just want to get on with their lives and be who they are. It's the bump and grind with idiots that makes in interesting at best. The funny thing though is that I've moved twice, Iowa and then AZ and now I don't feel rooted in a particular place anymore. I am not an Arizonan nor was I an Iowan, even if two of my kids are. In many ways I am still a NYer, even more so than being an American. Anyway, it's good you do well.