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When to Stop Hrt? How Old is Too Old?

Started by KatieP, April 17, 2018, 09:03:42 PM

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Jessica

I started at 61, 9 months ago, on patches.  Everything points to hrt being safer than it once was, and the patches are the safest.

"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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warlockmaker

There is no long term scientific study of the effects of E on TGs. We were just such a mminority that no one cared, I understand that records are being kept now, and the next generation will benefit. The most important thing is to have a very experienced doctor who has treated TGs for over 10 years. This in itself is difficult as there are not many out there, though each year this number increases. They are not taught at med school about us as a specific subjecf until recently, resulting in so many who are just quacks when it comes to hrt for us.

I was blessed with a truly wonderful therapist and guide. He was one of the pioneers in treating TGs, with over 30 years of experience. Thank you Dr Bushong, you made this journey safe and wonderful.  I am 70 years, feel, think and look in the fourties.  E has been a fountain of youth for me. I am at peace, happy and live each day enjoying the wonders of life. A balance of exercise, university,  diet and just great partying.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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KayXo

Quote from: warlockmaker on April 19, 2018, 09:06:37 PM
There is no long term scientific study of the effects of E on TGs.

We have data dating back to the 1960's and there have been studies disseminating everything so far gathered. IMHO, the data is sufficient to already draw certain somewhat solid conclusions like for instance, that breast cancer risk barely rises in this population (less than 20 reported since 1968) despite being prescribed for, at least 2-3 decades, very high doses of E (more often that not, non bio-identical) and sometimes progestogens like medroxyprogesterone acetate, 17-alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate and cyproterone acetate. We also know that non bio-identical E increases the risk of DVT far more than bio-identical E in this population, similar to cismen and ciswomen. Prolactinoma is extremely rare (8 reported), as is prostate cancer (7 cases). Meningioma (10 cases) only seen with cyproterone acetate use, except one case and that is quite rare too.

There may be underreporting, of course.
I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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warlockmaker

Quote "We have data dating back to the 1960's and there have been studies disseminating everything so far gathered. IMHO, the data is sufficient to already draw certain somewhat solid conclusions like for instance, that breast cancer risk barely rises in this population (less than 20 reported since 1968) despite being prescribed for, at least 2-3 decades, very high doses of E (more often that not, non bio-identical) and sometimes progestogens like medroxyprogesterone acetate, 17-alpha hydroxyprogesterone caproate and cyproterone acetate. We also know that non bio-identical E increases the risk of DVT far more than bio-identical E in this population, similar to cismen and ciswomen. Prolactinoma is extremely rare (8 reported), as is prostate cancer (7 cases). Meningioma (10 cases) only seen with cyproterone acetate use, except one case and that is quite rare too."


Interesting comment and such wonderful technical medical terms. However, we need to employ stastics and very specific description of the population. The stastical data, population size, the time frame and the data gatheting methodology etc. is totally inadequate, at this time, to provide any scientific conclusion. It will take another generation or more for a definitive scientific conclusion as to the long term effects of E on TGs. We cannot use the HRT studies on cis females and draw any reliable scientific conclusions as we are anatomically very different. It will be very interesting a read, for all of us, when this data is sufficient.

As a personal view from very limited data and some  understanding of the medical aspects of HRT, from Dr Bushong, who has 35 plus years of treating tgs, I would say that our lives are not shortened and hopefully lengthened. And maybe HRT on tgs is a mini fountain of youth.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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KayXo

Quote from: warlockmaker on April 20, 2018, 07:49:50 PMThe stastical data, population size, the time frame and the data gatheting methodology etc. is totally inadequate, at this time, to provide any scientific conclusion.

I personally disagree. 50 yrs and tens (perhaps hundreds) of thousands of transsexual women provide plenty of info from which we can draw already some pretty adequate conclusions.

QuoteWe cannot use the HRT studies on cis females and draw any reliable scientific conclusions as we are anatomically very different.

We are genetically different and have different hormonal histories but it can still give us clues because we belong to the same species...in addition to studies on other primates and animals...in addition to recent studies in men with advanced prostate cancer prescribed high doses of bio-identical estradiol.

Taken together, the findings so far gathered are promising and would suggest estradiol has an overall favorable impact on our bodies, even at higher doses and little to be worried about.

I am not a medical doctor, nor a scientist - opinions expressed by me on the subject of HRT are merely based on my own review of some of the scientific literature over the last decade or so, on anecdotal evidence from women in various discussion forums that I have come across, and my personal experience

On HRT since early 2004
Post-op since late 2005
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Denni

Interesting thoughts and responses to this thread, and most of all, they remain civil, even in disagreement. I am as most would call, a senior citizen just turning seventy. I did not start HRT until the age of 68 with my doctor increasing my dosages at intervals during this time. I have now reached levels that I am comfortable with as well as my doctor. During this time he has done blood work every four months to monitor where I am at and to ensure that everything else remains in a normal range. At no time has he indicated that because of my age there is any increased risk to overall health. I take it in pill form, sublingual under my tongue. Exercise five days a week for an hour is also part of my daily routine and feel physically and mentally twenty years younger than my age. With continued monitoring of ones blood work, and physical well being, I suspect, that should be what determines HRT use and not the age of the individual.
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warlockmaker

Hi Denni, great to meet another health concious 70 year old. I also run 5k every other day in the Bangkok heat in 30 minutes and daily 40 minutes of yoga. My father is 96 and maybe I get to test out the long life gene combined with hrt.

All of us with peace of mind and  a positive attitude will lead a fuller life.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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EndlessEden

Quote from: KatieP on April 17, 2018, 09:03:42 PM
I was DIY for 30 years. At 59, I decided to "come clean" to all the doctors, start taking their actual advice, and all that. (Yeah, yeah. I know. Really...) Both GP and Endo were very supportive in every way. And, they both said, "No More E. There is too little information out there about the effects, but the risk of DVT over 60 is very high. And that is likely independent of sex." So, I stopped the estradiol and remained on Spiro about 11 months ago.

And, I don't feel like myself. I haven't felt "normal" for the last 6 months. It's very difficult to put my finger on the precise symptoms, by the big ones are insomnia, tired, and feeling blah/depressed.

I am going back to the Endo later this week for the quarterly appointment. I don't think I will beg, but I thought I would share anecdotal evidence from y'all about whether you continued HRT past 60, and if so, were there any adaptations, concerns, or problems?

Thanks for your insights!

K

This information is Incorrect. - DVT risks are relative to Complications with Premarin and like medications. Bio-Identical Estrogens don't have the same Cardiovascular risks as conjugated estrogens such as Premarin.

Please ask your physician to read the updated Risks and Concerns released in 2016/2017 by the World Health Organization, and the Peer Reviews done by Endocrinologists treating Patients outside of Lab-Studies. Outlining the risks associated with Depo-Estrodiol(Estradiol Cypionate) and like Medication. As they carry a Significantly Reduced, Cardiovascular Risk.

---

In personal experience, low-dosage Estradiol is not a risk but rather a benefit. Estrogen reduces cardiovascular stress.(It has a blood thinning effect), When taken with a low-dosage of Bio-Identical Progesterone(Progestins), the risks of cardiovascular complications are reduced by a Average of 81%.

Ref:(http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa030808 - Note use of Equine Conjugated Estrogens, for all the tests. Which are not normally used in the treatment of patients, as it carries high Cardiovascular Risks. Skewing the tests.)

Ref:(https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3810/pgm.2009.01.1949 - and further proof, of intentional skewing as a result, as well as showing clinical data to support that BioIdentical Hormones have a Significantly reduced risk of complications)

Ref:(http://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2645553/cardiovascular-disease-among-transgender-adults-receiving-hormone-therapy-narrative-review - Amongst all information, the only risks [While lacking proper research] Come from the lack of understanding. Please note that Delivery Methods such as IM-Injections and Topical Patches have shown the least risks of Cardiovascular Complications. Vs the preferred method of an Oral Tablet(Estrace), Thus increasing statistical likelihood of complications.)

Please Keep informed, Remember, Not all doctors review all documentation available. As Medical Practitioners have there preferred methods of treatment. Your doctor is your choice, choose one that is most update with treatments relative to you and be cautious of people even though they are nice. Your health is a Service, not a requirement and Treatment of Transgender Patients Still comes with a lot of Risks. Most Doctors prefer to stop Hormonal Treatment, to reduce the risks of Complications and Patients Families Suing for the Associated Risk.
Stay Informed.

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Denni

Quote from: warlockmaker on April 21, 2018, 10:08:00 AM
Hi Denni, great to meet another health concious 70 year old. I also run 5k every other day in the Bangkok heat in 30 minutes and daily 40 minutes of yoga. My father is 96 and maybe I get to test out the long life gene combined with hrt.

All of us with peace of mind and  a positive attitude will lead a fuller life.
Agree with your last comment, keeping a positive attitude, along with a physical life style leads to the peace of mind and full life that we all wish for in our life. I don't know what is worse, your heat or our cold, I am up here in the frozen north land of Wisconsin. Thankfully we are now seeing some moderation, it has been a long cold winter here with way to much snow. Our spring and fall seasons make up for the cold and snow, though spring has been MIA up until this week. Take care, stay safe, hugs
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