HRT questions for those of you with SOs...

[Galyo]

Hope I'm ok to post in this section, as a SO, but I need advice.
I've posted before about my partner, who is keen to start HRT, something I have major concerns about. We've kind of reached a head, and I realise that I can't, and have no right to, 'prevent' him from doing so (he still uses male pronouns, before anyone jumps on me).

What I really want to know is, those of you in relationships, when your SO has stayed and supported, how did HRT affect your relationship?

He was very understanding about the upcoming changes.

What about sex? We have recently been enjoying a resurgence in our sex life, and it's been wonderful. Admittedly it's been different (much more 'girl-sex') but we are really enjoying it and don't want to lose it. It's very important to both of us. He doesn't want to lose the ability to get erections or ejaculate. I am not that bothered about penetration, but wouldn't want him to ever lose that ability either. I've been following a lot of the stories on here, and see quite a few wives are supportive but very little is ever mentioned about sex. I notice quite a few people say they are asexual or that their wives are not interested in sex, but for those who are active, how did you deal with this aspect on HRT?

The big difference is that on HRT your libido will be significantly lower. However, this doesn't mean that the sex-drive will be completely depleted; similar to biological girls, transgirls will need to get "into the mood" before the sex. Foreplay becomes more important in that regard, I'd say.

I read a lot that libido goes - I would hate that! What can we do to avoid that? I know the sex organs can also shrink a bit, but how much? Does the shrinkage affect performance? Is that permanent?

Bear in mind that he is in his early 60s and I am approaching 60 so we are not in the bloom of youth.

Speaking for myself, I've noticed mostly my testicles shrinking. The penis size will stay mostly the same if you ask me. The performance isn't affected much, but I imagine that this can differ for a lot of people.

Breasts - I know that they can grow. But how much is likely in a man of that age, who is extremely thin? He doesn't want to come out socially so wouldn't want anything noticeable, but he is completely obsessed with breasts, so some breast growth is one of his major desires. Same with hip and butt - I know that fat is redistributed a bit, but if there is no fat, would he still get curves? He had a brief foray into T-blockers which he got online and there was a noticeable change in his breasts and nipples and they became more sensitive (that is how I knew he was on something). He is no longer taking them.

From my understanding, the best HRT results are due to feminine fat displacement. If your partner is underweight, he might therefore not get the desired results. The only thing I can advice is to encourage him to go on a healthier diet, and perhaps eat more regularly. While I think most people are aware of the health-issues related to obesity, most people forget that being underweight is also unhealthy and bad for the body.

What about emotions? Can feelings and love change? Can sexual preference change? - he claims he's a lesbian in a man's body (!), but I've also seen that sexual preference can change with HRT.

I don't think sexual preference changes on a whim like that. Emotions change a lot though; it's probably one of the biggest changes when on HRT (in my opinion). On HRT, I've started to become more emotional in general. Some of my tastes have changes a bit in that regard, but nothing too big. I can't stand watching violence on the news anymore (or anything like that), and I cry a lot more often now.

Behaviour. Is he likely to show any personality changes? I'm not sure I could cope with teenage girl stroppiness (been there done that). Can moods change? Will he suddenly take up knitting and cooking? OK, that's a joke but can behaviour, preferences, likes and dislikes change?

Nah. He will still be who he is now, just feminized. That's the gist of it.

Hope this helped you a little bit!

[KayXo]

My libido took a hit for a few months (wasn't happy about that but it was a good trade off coming as it did with a huge increase in daily peace of mind). I added progesterone at that point (micronized, aka bio-identical) and my libido returned and morphed to something much happier. Might have happened anyway on just E. Some women I know use small doses of testosterone and that almost certainly will increase drive, same is true for many cis women I know.

Just going off studies, evidence seems to point testosterone as being the sex drive trigger for both women and men. I tend to agree after being on HRT for 14 yrs now.

The rule of thumb for breasts is to expect to be 1 cup size smaller than the women in one's family.

A myth with no scientific support. I am 2 cup sizes smaller than all the women in my family. Size may vary significantly within the same family, sister might be very small, mom big, aunt small too, etc. We just don't know but it seems transwomen don't develop to the same extent as ciswomen, for the most part. The reason for this...a mystery.

Most of us don't change orientation.

I am attracted to men NOW but probably, always was. So yea, you might be right.

I don't know that taking estrogen without also suppressing testosterone will result in anything more than a placebo effect ...

Disagree. It depends on the person and the dose of estrogen. Estrogen is also anti-androgenic, used in men with prostate cancer to suppress T and bring it down to castrate levels. Estrogen sends a negative feedback to the hypothalamus and pituitary, thus reducing LH and FSH and testes production. Up one goes, down goes the other.

she didn't think just E would suppress T for me, however it did and I've never needed spiro.

Told ya! haha.

[Sylvia]

Thanks again, for all your input. It really does seem like it's different for everyone.

Now facing the next few months with dread and uncertainty. Feel like I've signed my own death warrant 

Syl

[josie76]

Thanks again, for all your input. It really does seem like it's different for everyone.

Now facing the next few months with dread and uncertainty. Feel like I've signed my own death warrant 

Syl

Sylvia, I know this is not what you want but if I might add a few thoughts.

If he is in love with you nothing about that will change. Hormones are not going to make his feeling change.
Sex drive is certainly not guaranteed to die.

I think you and he need to discuss with barebones honesty what his life experiece is. That is, how has he experienced diphoria? How long has it been present in his life? What has he done in his life to try to hide his feminine self? Answering these questions will help both of you really understand what he needs and what you two as a couple are looking at. He may have just mild feelings of not being fully male or may feel fully female but has spent his life hiding and attempting to play a role he was told was his only option in life. Until you both understand how far in the spectrum he is, you will both be struggling as he tries to find what is the real him.

Therapy is definately advisable for him and for both of you together. He should spend some time with a therapist with transgender experience. A good therapist will help him explore his feelings and memories.

I can only give you my own experience. I knew since very young I was supposed to be a girl. I learned however by first grade that I had no choice but to become a boy because that is what society expected from me. Not behaving like the boys got me teased and beaten up a few times. I was smart enough to copy, to emulate, and to remain quietly hidden in the back of male society for both emotional and physical safety reasons. I never understood why boys seemed so at ease with how they act. It was always work for me. I learned to watch and remain constantly vigilant of what everyone around me was doing and how anyone reacted to everything I did and said. It became practiced and life went on, but it is impossible to describe what the mental toll is of living like that. Every action and decision is based on what "others will think" and nothing is easy or natural. I am very binary female. Every instinct in my mind is feminine. I struggled my entire life to seperate my emotions so as not to show them. For someone as far binary in the trans spectrum as I am, being female including a full hormone shift is the ONLY way life can continue. Its the only way for me to be right. I realized I needed to be free of the gender bonds imposed on me at birth or I would not make it another decade on this Earth.


This is why I say he needs to spend some time with a therapist. He needs to figure out who he is without society's expectations. Then the two of you can understand what you are both looking at. I wish you both the best. Hope is not gone. Just move forward with open and honest communication. He likely does not want to hurt you. He just needs to find who he is deep down or else he may never be happy.

HUGS

[Sylvia]

Hi Josie

Thanks for your input. We have both had therapy but have stopped as it didn't really give us any answers. We tried two therapists, one agreed that he was trans, based on just 2 sessions (in which his relationship with me was barely mentioned) and approved him for hormones, the other one insisted he isn't trans  - she insists he's gender fluid, which of course is on the trans spectrum - and that transitioning was the wrong thing to do. I have been trying to get him to go back, or find someone more suitable, but he is really reluctant. He insists that only he can work out his own answers. He thinks hormone therapy will give him those answers.
As for the dysphoria, well he hasn't ever been diagnosed. The gender questioning only started a few years ago. He didn't feel he was a girl when he was a child and his puberty was pretty normal, he had the usual 'male' lifestyle, girlfriends, a normal sex life, a wife before me etc. He says he felt there was always 'something missing' in his life, he just didn't know what it was. While he's had times of anxiety he's not had full-blown depression. Just never really been happy in himself and he didn't know why. Only when he started experimenting with female underwear did it finally hit him what it was. He is not distressed at being male, and he enjoys it some of the time too. He's never been a very masculine male anyway, and I like that about him. He's always been quite androgynous.
He shaves all his body hair, has long hair (and always has), wears 2 earrings, some make up - none of which I have a problem with. I absolutely hate the female underwear, if I'm honest, but I can't and don't tell him that. I'd have been happy if that was enough for him - which for a while, he said it was, but obviously now he feels he needs to go further.
Thanks again for your input.
Syl

[Sylvia]

OK, well now that we've discussed it and I've agreed to the  HRT, he's now too scared. I think always having this '' I can't do it as she will leave me, so I won't even consider it' made it a kind of a crutch to cling onto to prevent the fear of coming out, which is a HUGE fear for him. I think because he knew it was a non-starter, he didn't really think about the possible repercussions and the actual practicalities of it. He saw it as some sort of forbidden fruit, the holy grail. Now it's within reach, he's terrified.

He still refuses to have therapy, so where do we go from here?

[josie76]

I'm sorry it's been so rough for you. His only way to deal with fear and to deal with whatever gender issues he feels is likely therapy. He probably needs one on one time over many weeks to just open up with a therapist let alone get himself figured out.

IDK what else to say.

[KathyLauren]

Without a therapist, the only way forward for him is the hard way.  While you can be supportive and encouraging, you can't be his therapist.  He will need to get HRT prescribed, fill the prescription and start taking it.  Then maybe he will loosen up.

I was able to get through the fear without addressing it directly with the therapist.  But only because I had already done some preliminary work with the therapist and knew what I wanted.  I knew I wanted a full social transition, probably followed by surgery.  Knowing that, I broke down the fear barrier by dressing as my true self and spending a day in the city shopping and talking to baristas and waitresses. 

Without having done that preliminary work, it would have been much harder.  The most important work with the therapist is to figure out what you want.  I would have been too confused without having done that work.

[SadieBlake]

OK, well now that we've discussed it and I've agreed to the  HRT, he's now too scared.
....
Now it's within reach, he's terrified.

He still refuses to have therapy, so where do we go from here?

Well first, get to therapy, true he can refuse. You can remind him that health is the point and that he's being irrational, honestly he's sounding like a complete drama queen ... Which I get, it's not a small step.

Also, connecting hrt with being out or outed is fallacious. As you and I assume he already know, he has a couple of months before anything becomes permanent.

I'm the last to insist that people should be out, however consider the cost of being closeted about something so central to one's life.

[Sylvia]

Thanks Kathy, I keep telling him he really must go to therapy, but he is so reluctant. It's also expensive and we are struggling financially, so that is another factor. We are in the UK, so any NHS involvement takes forever so private is the only way to go.

He is utterly confused about everything, and somehow feels that the hormones will magically give him the answers he is looking for. Maybe they will, but I worry that a) they may not, and may lead him to be even more confused and b) they may give him the wrong answers. I am encouraging him to try and work out what and who he is BEFORE starting hormones, rather then taking them to find the answers.

I have suggested that me and him go out somewhere for the day with him in female mode, which I know he would like, but again, he is so reluctant to actually take the plunge. He dresses female VERY occasionally at home, and even then it's not 'very' female. He says he doesn't always feel like it, although he wears female underwear all the time (he says he has to have 'something' female at all times but not to be totally femme).

[Karen]

Thanks again to all of your replies, especially Sadie, for your detailed and insightful viewpoint.

I sent all the replies to OH in an email (he doesn't do forums) and, while I found most of the replies terrifying and depressing, he thought they were mostly optimistic. Poles apart

We are now looking at the possibility of either herbal treatments to start with (and yes I know most of them are useless) or him going back to Gender GP (not ideal) to get started on low dose for a three month trial period. He MUST do it with medical supervision and therapy though, I refuse to allow him to get anything online again.

I feel tired, beaten and terrified. But I will not give up on him.

Syl

Hang in.   Thanks for being open and not giving up.   We need love, understanding and support.  And so do our life partners. 

Karen

[Sylvia]

I'm the last to insist that people should be out, however consider the cost of being closeted about something so central to one's life.

Sadie, as I've said before, we have teenage sons and we know this would be extremely hard for them, especially as we live in a rural backwater, very macho area of Europe (partner works in the UK hence any treatment would be there). We both agree that we have to put them first, before everything. They hero worship their dad.

[Sylvia]

Hmm, well back on track, he will get in touch with Gender GP next week and arrange another set of blood tests at the GP - last one was over 6 months ago so will be out of date. He has promised to cc me in all the emails and also will ask for a joint and a one to one therapy session. I believe if you are under Gender GP. email counselling is also part of the deal. Maybe some of the UK based peeps can confirm. Looking to maybe start the treatment over the summer.

We are both still terrified and don't know if brave enough to actually go ahead (both of us!), but getting things started is a way of going forward. I'm still having moments when I just want to yell 'PLEASE just stop it!' but that won't make any difference, will it?

I just so very much wish this wasn't happening and would do anything to make it all go away, but have to accept that it's the way it is. I love him with all my heart and that won't change.

[Dena]

It appears that therapy is a difficult step for your husband. I suggest that your husband consider joining this site and discuss his fears and desires. Many of us have been through the same process of discovery with the same fears. There is something about discussing our feelings with another transgender that's difficult to describe to somebody else. It's like looking in a mirror for the first time and suddenly seeing ourself as we have never seen ourself before. This site could help define the questions to ask in therapy and help remove the fear that we are unlike anybody else and will never receive help because of it. Knowing that others have faced exactly the same thing and succeeded gives you hope that the same thing is possible for you.

[Sylvia]

It appears that therapy is a difficult step for your husband. I suggest that your husband consider joining this site and discuss his fears and desires. Many of us have been through the same process of discovery with the same fears. There is something about discussing our feelings with another transgender that's difficult to describe to somebody else. It's like looking in a mirror for the first time and suddenly seeing ourself as we have never seen ourself before. This site could help define the questions to ask in therapy and help remove the fear that we are unlike anybody else and will never receive help because of it. Knowing that others have faced exactly the same thing and succeeded gives you hope that the same thing is possible for you.

Hi Dena

He's not against therapy as such, but he's had 3 lots and wasn't impressed with any of them. He seems  to think that any insights gained, he could have worked out on his own. They did tend to state the obvious, most of the time. I think we just need to find a good one, but that costs, and we can't afford it.

I'm afraid he won't join a forum, and has no interest in being part of any 'community', wouldn't ever go to any transgender support group or social event - he's very much a lone wolf, is extremely private and hates to discuss things with anyone. He really thinks that he can work things out himself. It's taken him years to open up to me! He did join a UK trans forum for a day, and then deleted his account as soon as people welcomed him! He does read a lot of online stuff though - including forums, but he's never heard of this one (!), so he's not totally immune from the outside world! And I send him things I've gleaned from here, and other places, quite often! All the therapy he's had has been on the phone. He doesn't even like doing that by Skype, and absolutely won't do face to face.

He also wouldn't join here as he knows I would be lurking and reading everything! 

He also doesn't want to be 'swayed' or influenced by anyone, which he thinks may happen if he spoke to other transgender people. Neither of us know any. I agree that that it could help him to get some support from people who have been through it.

Thanks for the advice, as always.

Syl

[SadieBlake]

Sadie, as I've said before, we have teenage sons and we know this would be extremely hard for them, especially as we live in a rural backwater, very macho area of Europe (partner works in the UK hence any treatment would be there). We both agree that we have to put them first, before everything. They hero worship their dad.

Syl, yeah I get that. And I'm glad to see in your most recent posts that he's coming around.

Coming out and choosing to whom you are and aren't out is one of the most personal and important decisions. Here are some of my thoughts on my own process. https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,236408.0.html

Best wishes

[pamelatransuk]

Hello Sylvia

As you know I came in here at comment 16 on a related point and I am transgender and asexual.

However I am also under GenderGP and am very grateful for their all round service including therapy and HRT. It is up to you both but I suggest GenderGP is best course of action. The therapy would aid his decision to start HRT (or not) and if started, everyone starts on low dose anyway and he should be able to explore and determine whether he wishes to continue (or not).

Also I live in backwater in NW England where there are so many bigots unfortunately but I have decided to move house  - not a long way away - when I go public and I wonder whether you would consider that.

Finally if he sadly does not wish to join this forum, which I have found most beneficial and comforting, as a member then perhaps he could at least read it and continue his research here aswell as at other places.

I wish you both much success whatever routes you choose to take.

Pamela

[Sylvia]

Hello Sylvia

As you know I came in here at comment 16 on a related point and I am transgender and asexual.

However I am also under GenderGP and am very grateful for their all round service including therapy and HRT. It is up to you both but I suggest GenderGP is best course of action. The therapy would aid his decision to start HRT (or not) and if started, everyone starts on low dose anyway and he should be able to explore and determine whether he wishes to continue (or not).

Also I live in backwater in NW England where there are so many bigots unfortunately but I have decided to move house  - not a long way away - when I go public and I wonder whether you would consider that.

Finally if he sadly does not wish to join this forum, which I have found most beneficial and comforting, as a member then perhaps he could at least read it and continue his research here aswell as at other places.

I wish you both much success whatever routes you choose to take.

Pamela

Hi Pamela

He has been in touch with Gender GP again. The only thing I had against them last time was how quickly and readily they approved him for treatment, without even asking him about what his life partner and kids would think. There was a vague question in the Q and A at the beginning (which he shared with me) but in the therapy, he says he was barely asked about relationships.  I understand they are there to facilitate and help people avoid the NHS hoops, but I think they are very one-sided. Almost make it too easy.

We couldn't move. We own our home and our kids are settled. If we did go anywhere, it would be back to the UK but of course, my family and my other kids (from a previous relationship) would then feature heavily in our lives.

As I said earlier, he does read a lot about things, and has done a lot of research. He just isn't a forum type of person and I actually think he's scared of other transgender people. Admires from a distance, but when it comes to any interaction....

Thanks again.
Syl