Concerns about Progesterone

[lori25]

I've been on hrt now for about 14 months.  My estradiol is on the low scale compared to a lot of trans women.  I've had really great results, but would like to round out my breasts more.  I'm just now reading up on progesterone (bioidentical), but I'm getting a bit of jumbled info here and there.

My main concern is if there could be any potential "down grading" of my physical changes on bioidentical progesterone.  I think I read a few testimonials of trans women's hair getting "softer" and wondering if that translates to thinner, less coarse hair?  Some have reported about their face looking more masculine, along with darker body hair and growth.

From what I understand, as long as it's bioidentical progesterone and not synthetic there's no major risks or unwanted side effects involved?  Does this also apply to raised DHT or androgen effects if I were to suddenly start progesterone, or is that only reported with the synthetic type?

I'm 36, and my doc won't allow my estradiol levels to go any higher with what a lot of trans women seem to be getting away with.  I'd just like a confirmation on if progesterone could lower my feminine features and cause more body hair to grow again.  Are there any permanent physical effects (masculine) or setbacks that could come from progesterone or should I go for it?

[josie76]

Bioidenticle progesterone will not of itself cause any increased masculine effects. It will not increase T or DHT and in fact it will add to the feedback that estradiol is doing in surpressing T production by reducing the signaling from the pituitary to the testes.
It has some effect of the skin and nails. My nails are way more flexible than with E alone. Yes they will still break but more like a split or tear at the sides where on E alone the tips of my nails would just break out.

Body hair is triggered by androgen hormones. This includes other types of androgens made in the adrenal glands not just T and DHT. Having one of the androgen blocker medications is your best bet for body hair. My endo asked me if I wanted to continue low dose spiro after I had an orchi just because it does help with the body hair and skin breakouts some get from androgens. I declined. I had already weaned myself down off spiro after my first year on HRT. I quit spiro just a few weeks before my orchi.

In the past they used synthetic progestins. Several of these did activate androgen receptors much like a weak androgen hormone would. Progesterone will not do this. If it did then every baby born would have a masculinized brain.

I felt way more emotionally stable with progesterone. Some may get the opposite effect. Those who do a cycle on and off definately go through PMS but that has to do with the hormone levels dropping off not the taking it to begin with.

[lori25]

Bioidenticle progesterone will not of itself cause any increased masculine effects. It will not increase T or DHT and in fact it will add to the feedback that estradiol is doing in surpressing T production by reducing the signaling from the pituitary to the testes.
It has some effect of the skin and nails. My nails are way more flexible than with E alone. Yes they will still break but more like a split or tear at the sides where on E alone the tips of my nails would just break out.

Body hair is triggered by androgen hormones. This includes other types of androgens made in the adrenal glands not just T and DHT. Having one of the androgen blocker medications is your best bet for body hair. My endo asked me if I wanted to continue low dose spiro after I had an orchi just because it does help with the body hair and skin breakouts some get from androgens. I declined. I had already weaned myself down off spiro after my first year on HRT. I quit spiro just a few weeks before my orchi.

In the past they used synthetic progestins. Several of these did activate androgen receptors much like a weak androgen hormone would. Progesterone will not do this. If it did then every baby born would have a masculinized brain.

I felt way more emotionally stable with progesterone. Some may get the opposite effect. Those who do a cycle on and off definately go through PMS but that has to do with the hormone levels dropping off not the taking it to begin with.

Thanks so much!  I'm a bit concerned because everything is nearly perfect and especially regarding my mood.  Does the progesterone help with complexion at all, or are you still experiencing more breakouts than before the spiro?  I imagine that I could try a low dosage for a while and always quit with nothing to lose, right?

[Doreen]

I've been on hrt now for about 14 months.  My estradiol is on the low scale compared to a lot of trans women.  I've had really great results, but would like to round out my breasts more.  I'm just now reading up on progesterone (bioidentical), but I'm getting a bit of jumbled info here and there.

My main concern is if there could be any potential "down grading" of my physical changes on bioidentical progesterone.  I think I read a few testimonials of trans women's hair getting "softer" and wondering if that translates to thinner, less coarse hair?  Some have reported about their face looking more masculine, along with darker body hair and growth.

From what I understand, as long as it's bioidentical progesterone and not synthetic there's no major risks or unwanted side effects involved?  Does this also apply to raised DHT or androgen effects if I were to suddenly start progesterone, or is that only reported with the synthetic type?

I'm 36, and my doc won't allow my estradiol levels to go any higher with what a lot of trans women seem to be getting away with.  I'd just like a confirmation on if progesterone could lower my feminine features and cause more body hair to grow again.  Are there any permanent physical effects (masculine) or setbacks that could come from progesterone or should I go for it?

Er I'm on bioidentical progesterone and none of that happened to me.  It has smoothed my skin even more, and it feels very soft, my hair .. which was vellous has lightened to the point you really have to look at my arms & legs in a light to see the hair.  I'd venture to say if you have no testosterone you're most likely not going to see any androgenizing effects from progesterone.  Then again, perhaps others have different experiences, I can only speak from my own personal observations on it.  My head hair is incredibly thick now, but that's also because I'm taking biotin.

I also have no skin breakouts, pimples are almost nonexistent, and my pores are nice & small.. and getting better.

My skin is SO very soft now, my spouse keeps rubbing it  lol (my arm ) ... its kinda embarrassing but still nice.  My nails have always been brittle, and that hasn't changed sadly. 

[Nina_NYC]

I realize everyone is different but want to state I used to take Progesterone but my doctor stopped prescribing it as he thinks it contributed to pigmentation on my arms when combined with high estrogen dosage + sun in the summer.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[Donna]

This is a confusing subject. I have read that it can work against estrogen and boost testosterone. I'm not going on it until after I have an orchi later this year. My T is headed for zero due to eligard that I take and I don't want to mess with that. I'm interested in the breast enhancement aspects more than anything.

[Lady Sarah]

When I started HRT, I was prescribed Premarin and Provera. Provera is a progesterone, which acts as an antiandrogen. My doctor took me off of it after my orchiectomy, as I no longer needed an anti androgen. Results will vary from person to person, as no two people are bioidentical.  You may talk to your doctor about it, and you may try it to see how not works for you. If you do not like the results, you may discontinue using it, but then, be sure to let your doctor know, and why.

[josie76]

Provera is medroxy-progesterone-acetate (MPA) not bioidenticle hormone. MPA activates progesterone receptors but can also activate androgen receptors mildly. It is also associated with depression in a large enough percent of patients to be of some concern. MPA does not provide any secondary effects.

Bioidenticle progesterone provides a large number of beneficial metabolites to the body.

Screenshot Progesterone by Josie H, on Flickr

Screenshot MPA by Josie H, on Flickr

[josie76]

This is a confusing subject. I have read that it can work against estrogen and boost testosterone. I'm not going on it until after I have an orchi later this year. My T is headed for zero due to eligard that I take and I don't want to mess with that. I'm interested in the breast enhancement aspects more than anything.

Likely you have heard some of the possible effects of medroxy-progesterone-acetate. MPA is a non-human progestin. It is not human progesterone. Bioidenticle progesterone upregulates activity of estrogen in body tissues like the breast tissues.

[KayXo]

Bioidenticle progesterone upregulates activity of estrogen in body tissues like the breast tissues.

Progesterone actually downregulates estrogen receptors and increases conversion of estradiol to the weaker form, estrone. This is why it is prescribed to women with a uterus, to reduce estrogen effects on uterus and proliferation. Progesterone is anti-estrogenic.

[josie76]

Progesterone actually downregulates estrogen receptors and increases conversion of estradiol to the weaker form, estrone. This is why it is prescribed to women with a uterus, to reduce estrogen effects on uterus and proliferation. Progesterone is anti-estrogenic.

Hey Kay, I've seen studies showing the opposite is true dependent on the tissues involved. I'd have to dig to find the references.
I'm not discounting what you said about uterine tissues. Progesterone on endometrial tissues is needed to start the second phase of the endometrial cycle though. Without it, the endometrium does not function properly. I remember seeing some studies relating low progesterone levels in the mid luteal phase as a contributing factor for the formation of endometriosis.

Point would be that it is not a blanket anti-estrogenic hormone. It interacts within specific tissues with activated estrogen receptors differently. In the breast tissues it is an activity up regulator because of the activity that it triggers.

[KayXo]

Point would be that it is not a blanket anti-estrogenic hormone. It interacts within specific tissues with activated estrogen receptors differently. In the breast tissues it is an activity up regulator because of the activity that it triggers.

It is a blanket anti-estrogenic hormone. This is established knowledge in the scientific community. Its antiestrogenic activity has been shown in the breast too and this is why some scientists, wrongly (IMO), believe it can reduce the risk of breast cancer. There are studies that confirm this.

[Doreen]

Progesterone actually downregulates estrogen receptors and increases conversion of estradiol to the weaker form, estrone. This is why it is prescribed to women with a uterus, to reduce estrogen effects on uterus and proliferation. Progesterone is anti-estrogenic.

Yup that's exactly the reason my endo wanted me to continue taking progesterone.. unique biology notwithstanding.  Plus my testosterone has always been 0 unless my estrogen count was insanely high... even then it was still in normal female lmits.  My estrogen is still plenty high, even being on progesterone. (bioidentical)

[RobynD]

I haven't taken enough blood data to determine, but anecdotally - when i have been off prometrium my estrogen levels have been very high (for me anyways) and testosterone levels very low, almost none. With prometrium it is more moderate levels but still well within target ranges.

I've cycling prometrium currently.

[josie76]

I don't know. I have been looking for any recent info showing it is a blanket anti-estrogen. I find in many places that progesterone limits or down-regulates estrogen's effect on the endometrium cells. Specifically the endometrium cells.

I did have it backwards though. In other tissues such as the breasts, estrogen receptor activation up-regulates nuclear and membrane progesterone receptor functions.

[judithlynn]

Hi Lori;

I have been on a combined Oestrogen and Progesterone regime now for nearly a year (4.5 years on Oestrogen only). I am on a 14 days Oestrogen only regime (taken twice a day) and 14 days on the combined regime. I take Promethium at night time after my evening Oestrogen tablet. Promethium tends to make me very sleepy and it apparently promotes a relaxed sleep. Since commencing it, for the last 14 days I find that I am emotionally very stable and  just feel very feminine and a lot more relaxed. In fact on those weeks I find myself enjoying life immensely as a woman, buying new clothes, meeting girlfriends, going out looking very feminine in a dress or skirt etc, whereas in the first two weeks, I find I just want to lounge about in jeans, and the grungy look, not bothering with make-up. Its almost as though I feel that I am a complete woman on the second 14 day period. But by the end of the month I find the combined regime very cloying (unpleasantly excessive) and know by then I need to be off it back to my Oestrogen only regime.

However during the first 14 days of the month, my Oestrogen levels are generally quite high (I should point out my T levels now are below 0.9). Around about the 12th day of the month I get a sort of PMS. I get very moody, cry a lot at the slightest thing. I even get tummy cramps. My BFF tells me it is probably just physiological (especially when I am staying with her) as there are anecdotal evidence of women synching. The theory behind the syncing of menstrual cycles is that women's pheromones interact when they are in close proximity, causing them to have their period at the same time.

Overall during the second half of the month . my breasts appear to get fuller and more rounded and definitely feel heavier and really fill out my C Cup bras, whereas on my first cycle are less so. My skin is also super-soft on the 2nd part of the month. Also my libido rises on the second cycle and I generally seem to notice men's scent  then. My nails are a lot less brittle and overall stronger. Also  my body hair has become very vellus type and lighter and in some parts especially my décolleté and tummy and pubic region almost completely disappeared (mind you  I have had laser treatment there), but re-growth has been almost non existent.

Since starting on  Progesterone, my buttocks have become quite rounded. I have added about 4" to my buttocks and hips and I have also put on fatty tissue on my thighs and lower abdomen  below the belly button band down to the Pubis.
Overall I really like the results, but I am not sure I could take a full month on the combined regime.
Judith

[Ellement_of_Freedom]

I have been on a combined Oestrogen and Progesterone regime now for nearly a year (4.5 years on Oestrogen only). I am on a 14 days Oestrogen only regime (taken twice a day) and 14 days on the combined regime. I take Promethium at night time after my evening Oestrogen tablet. Promethium tends to make me very sleepy and it apparently promotes a relaxed sleep. Since commencing it, for the last 14 days I find that I am emotionally very stable and  just feel very feminine and a lot more relaxed. In fact on those weeks I find myself enjoying life immensely as a woman, buying new clothes, meeting girlfriends, going out looking very feminine in a dress or skirt etc, whereas in the first two weeks, I find I just want to lounge about in jeans, and the grungy look, not bothering with make-up. Its almost as though I feel that I am a complete woman on the second 14 day period. But by the end of the month I find the combined regime very cloying (unpleasantly excessive) and know by then I need to be off it back to my Oestrogen only regime.

However during the first 14 days of the month, my Oestrogen levels are generally quite high (I should point out my T levels now are below 0.9). Around about the 12th day of the month I get a sort of PMS. I get very moody, cry a lot at the slightest thing. I even get tummy cramps. My BFF tells me it is probably just physiological (especially when I am staying with her) as there are anecdotal evidence of women synching. The theory behind the syncing of menstrual cycles is that women's pheromones interact when they are in close proximity, causing them to have their period at the same time.

Overall during the second half of the month . my breasts appear to get fuller and more rounded and definitely feel heavier and really fill out my C Cup bras, whereas on my first cycle are less so. My skin is also super-soft on the 2nd part of the month. Also my libido rises on the second cycle and I generally seem to notice men's scent  then. My nails are a lot less brittle and overall stronger. Also  my body hair has become very vellus type and lighter and in some parts especially my décolleté and tummy and pubic region almost completely disappeared (mind you  I have had laser treatment there), but re-growth has been almost non existent.

Since starting on  Progesterone, my buttocks have become quite rounded. I have added about 4" to my buttocks and hips and I have also put on fatty tissue on my thighs and lower abdomen  below the belly button band down to the Pubis.
Overall I really like the results, but I am not sure I could take a full month on the combined regime.
Judith

Thank you so much for the comprehensive report of your experience. It has convinced me to try progesterone, if only for the emotional stability and relaxed sleeping!

[pamelatransuk]

Hello Judith

I am new to HRT at only 25 weeks Oestradiol and T blocker although I was very pleased with my 3 month Blood Test readings of E & T respectively 922 (Intl) 251 (US) and 1.6 (Intl) 46 (US). Within a couple of weeks I shall have my 6 month BT readings.

I just wish to say I find your descriptions of your HRT regimen most interesting and uplifting and certainly something for me to seriously consider further down the line!

I wish you every happiness.

Hugs

Pamela