Transgender Exclusion from the World of Dating

[Maybebaby56]

Some depressing news:

Transgender exclusion from the world of dating: Patterns of acceptance and rejection of hypothetical trans dating partners as a function of sexual and gender identity

Journal of Social and Personal Relationships
Karen L. Blair,  Rhea Ashley Hoskin
St. Francis Xavier University, Canada
Queen's University, Canada

Article first published online: May 31, 2018
doi:10.1177/0265407518779139

Abstract: The current study sought to describe the demographic characteristics of individuals who are willing to consider a transgender individual as a potential dating partner. Participants (N = 958) from a larger study on relationship decision-making processes were asked to select all potential genders that they would consider dating if ever seeking a future romantic partner. The options provided included cisgender men, cisgender women, trans men, trans women, and genderqueer individuals. Across a sample of heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, and trans individuals, 87.5% indicated that they would not consider dating a trans person, with cisgender heterosexual men and women being most likely to exclude trans persons from their potential dating pool. Individuals identifying as bisexual, queer, trans, or non-binary were most likely to indicate a willingness to date a trans person. However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman). The results are discussed within the context of the implications for trans persons seeking romantic relationships and the pervasiveness of cisgenderism and transmisogyny.

[Mendi]

Well I kind of have guessed this.

But then again, the study design is a difficult one, because if you only ask that would you date trans woman, would you date disabled people, would you date a person who suffers from mental illness, would you date a criminal and so on and so on...it creates certain image in peoples mind. Ask me, that would I date a criminal and I have a certain image in my head immediately...and the answer is no.

But, getting to know a convicted criminal, without knowing the criminal past, I might get attracted to the person itself and finding out the criminal past later, might not bother me anymore, because I know the person.

Same thing, as a man, would you date a trans woman, and there is certain kind of stereotype immediately in his head. But go to a date, get to know each others...the trans part might not bother him later on.

[Northern Star Girl]

Some depressing news:

Transgender exclusion from the world of dating: Patterns of acceptance and rejection of hypothetical trans dating partners as a function of sexual and gender identity

Journal of Social and Personal Relationships
Karen L. Blair,  Rhea Ashley Hoskin
St. Francis Xavier University, Canada
Queen's University, Canada

Article first published online: May 31, 2018
doi:10.1177/0265407518779139

Abstract: The current study sought to describe the demographic characteristics of individuals who are willing to consider a transgender individual as a potential dating partner. Participants (N = 958) from a larger study on relationship decision-making processes were asked to select all potential genders that they would consider dating if ever seeking a future romantic partner. The options provided included cisgender men, cisgender women, trans men, trans women, and genderqueer individuals. Across a sample of heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, and trans individuals, 87.5% indicated that they would not consider dating a trans person, with cisgender heterosexual men and women being most likely to exclude trans persons from their potential dating pool. Individuals identifying as bisexual, queer, trans, or non-binary were most likely to indicate a willingness to date a trans person. However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman). The results are discussed within the context of the implications for trans persons seeking romantic relationships and the pervasiveness of cisgenderism and transmisogyny.

@Maybebaby56
Dear Terri....  interesting reading for all transgenders and those that may want to date transgenders.... however, without even knowing about this study I boldly entered the dating world and have dated both straight men and straight females, some dates certainly involved romantic overtures.   The interesting thing that I pondered is that if a straight man dates me is he then considered gay?  ... or if a straight woman dates me is she then considered a lesbian?   Since I present sucessfullly as a full-time woman I have not witnessed that conclusion at all.
I wish that the writer of the Article you mentioned would have gotten my opinion before she concluded what she did.

My results are not at all depressing....  and I write here on the Forums as a testimony of what can really happen in real life and not some high priced study composed with big words and overly complicated wording by an "educated" professor that may not have gone through the hoops that we transgenders have...
I think it is inaccurate news that will cause unnecessary concern to the transgender community.

To all that are reading my reply post... don't read the report... live your life and let it happen.
Just my opinion, that is all.

Thanks Terri for sharing this and making it open to commentary.
Hugs,
Danielle

[Maybebaby56]

Hi Danielle,

Thank you for your response. I think if there is anyone on the forum who represents a positive, can-do attitude, you are certainly near the top of the list (although it's hard to top @tgirlamc).

I did not post the article to discourage anyone from Being All They Can Be, but to provide some ground truth to those who may have experienced rejection and discrimination in dating and may have wondered, "Is it me? Am I not worth loving?"  The answer is no, it's not you, that entrenched transphobia is real, and this study illustrates that fairly well.

If reports like this make you want to curl up in a dark room and never come out, then maybe transition is not for you. Transition will test your courage and resolve like nothing else. People can be so cruel. 

I have dated a bit, and found most cis-lesbians reject me as a romantic partner, but accept me socially quite easily.  I have had more cis-men interested in me, but mostly as a sex object, not a love interest (in my estimation). But not all. As for trans lovers, I have only met one trans lady who was even slightly interested, but to be fair she is much more interested in men. We remain friends.

Everyone is an individual, and this study is not intended to be the final answer to every situation.  But it is a snapshot of current societal attitudes.

With kindness,

Terri 

[Kendra]

By definition, transgender individuals are not average and boring.  It takes more effort to find and date exceptional people and the rewards are definitely there.

Terri I agree with your point this information can be helpful so we don't take rejection too personally.  "It's not you, it's me."  And we should never hold ourselves back.  Statistics are statistics.

To help illustrate what is possible - some but not all here are aware of this - I've been happily dating a married male/female couple for the past two years. 

Find your dreams and go for it.

[Devlyn]

Some depressing news:

Transgender exclusion from the world of dating: Patterns of acceptance and rejection of hypothetical trans dating partners as a function of sexual and gender identity

Journal of Social and Personal Relationships
Karen L. Blair,  Rhea Ashley Hoskin
St. Francis Xavier University, Canada
Queen's University, Canada

Article first published online: May 31, 2018
doi:10.1177/0265407518779139

Abstract: The current study sought to describe the demographic characteristics of individuals who are willing to consider a transgender individual as a potential dating partner. Participants (N = 958) from a larger study on relationship decision-making processes were asked to select all potential genders that they would consider dating if ever seeking a future romantic partner. The options provided included cisgender men, cisgender women, trans men, trans women, and genderqueer individuals. Across a sample of heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, and trans individuals, 87.5% indicated that they would not consider dating a trans person, with cisgender heterosexual men and women being most likely to exclude trans persons from their potential dating pool. Individuals identifying as bisexual, queer, trans, or non-binary were most likely to indicate a willingness to date a trans person. However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman). The results are discussed within the context of the implications for trans persons seeking romantic relationships and the pervasiveness of cisgenderism and transmisogyny.

This highlights the wisdom of disclosing your status, and only seeking a partner who is already open to the idea of dating a gender variant person.

[MissyMay2.0]

I don't think we should let a study determine who is or isn't attracted to us; perhaps the study participants have limited interactions with trans people, so they are answering the survey based on personal false beliefs, hearsay, and fear (what would other people think about me if I date a trans person, and what does it say about my sexuality if I date a trans person?).

[Devlyn]

I don't think we should let a study determine who is or isn't attracted to us; perhaps the study participants have limited interactions with trans people, so they are answering the survey based on personal false beliefs, hearsay, and fear (what would other people think about me if I date a trans person, and what does it say about my sexuality if I date a trans person?).

I used a different study about the same subject in another thread about a month ago, that one said 86% would never consider dating a transgender person. It's pretty consistent.

[ErinAscending]

I've dabbled in statistical analysis in the past with regard to assessing cultural norms in the field of anthropology.  There is a doctrine among anthropologists regarding the use of surveys to find definitive conclusions regarding hypothetical situations.

A survey for such use will only tell you what people think they would do.  It says nothing about what they will do.

I've been studying "Humans" all my life in one way or another.  We are too complicated to know for sure how any of us would react in a hypothetical until it happens and you find out for sure.

<3,
Erin

[Maybebaby56]

perhaps the study participants have limited interactions with trans people, so they are answering the survey based on personal false beliefs, hearsay, and fear...

That was pretty much what they were addressing: the perceptions people have.

A survey for such use will only tell you what people think they would do.  It says nothing about what they will do.

I very much agree.  The survey deals with what people think of dating transgenders as a concept. It does not further dissect those respondents who have actually met or know transgenders (which would be interesting to know).  It also doesn't deal with pre-op/post-op/non-op issues, or whether the hypothetical transgender in question is passable or non-passable.  All those fears and prejudices are influencing their responses, as Karen pointed out.

~Terri

[MissyMay2.0]

...And it works both ways, for whatever reason(s), we may have no interest in dating some of the people who said they would not date a trans person. And the other 12.5% are probably the cream of the crop anyway😊

(33.5% of) Them:  "we aren't interested in dating you."

(87.5% of) Us:  "As if...!" 😀

[Devlyn]

...And it works both ways, for whatever reason(s), we may have no interest in dating some of the people who said they would not date a trans person. And the other 12.5% are probably the cream of the crop anyway😊

(33.5% of)Them:  "we aren't interested in dating you."

(87.5% of)Us:  "As if...!" 😀

Amen! 

[kaitylynn]

Interesting, but it is really not saying much.  85% feel they would rather not date a trans person and believe that they would not do so.  How many of those respondents have experienced anything other than maybe some water cooler discussion of bathrooms and porn?

I thought about this before beginning my journey.  I had concluded I would be content with remaining single as long as I could be wholly me moving forward.  I found quickly that I was not alone and I have found an incredible friend that has become my partner.  We developed our friendship having participating in Yoga, GNO's and spending time together.  It led to what we have now, though she has always shown herself to be that 15%.

I have several people who have expressed interest in dating.  I have known them all for over three years and we are actively platonic friends.  One is male, one trans and one female.  They have all told me they would love to explore where we could go, but they are a little late.  Again, not random respondents from a dating site/app.  I maintain that a majority of that 85% has no idea what "transgender" is at all.

Also consider, .3% of the population could expect 15% of the dating population to show interest.  It is not as bleak as it might initially seem.

Just my 1/5th of a dime.

[Northern Star Girl]

That was pretty much what they were addressing: the perceptions people have.

I very much agree.  The survey deals with what people think of dating transgenders as a concept. It does not further dissect those respondents who have actually met or know transgenders (which would be interesting to know).  It also doesn't deal with pre-op/post-op/non-op issues, or whether the hypothetical transgender in question is passable or non-passable.  All those fears and prejudices are influencing their responses, as Karen pointed out.

~Terri

@Maybebaby56
Terry.... Exactly correct.   In my own situation I just had a dinner date last weekend with a cis-male that until he met me he had never ever personally met or ever seen a trans-woman.   He was interested in me well before I announced my secret and came-out to my small town.... he admitted to me that he was quite surprised about my past and after he found out and recovered from his shock ... and after he thought about it he still wanted to get to know me and perhaps go on a date.

His told me that like many small town conservative people that he had the idea that trans-women were outlandish looking on the order of appearing and acting like the "way out there" Drag Queens that can occasionally be seen in magazines and television. 
He went on to tell me that if I was like that he would have certainly been repulsed as a man and had most likely not perused getting to know me, let alone asking me on a dinner date. 
I also have recently dated cis-women here with similar stories.

The question that then comes up in recent open discussions with some of my cis-women and cis male friends here is the concept that if a man dates a trans-woman is he then looked at as gay, or if a woman dates a trans-woman is she then thought of as a lesbian?   Then of course the discussion turns directly to me... am I gay? a lesbian?  straight? 
Certainly an interesting discussion point and a conundrum to be sure.  I endeavor for people to like me and to perhaps possibly become a romantic interest on the basis of how I now look, act, dress and interact with others.

So, anyway, that is my personal experience and has nothing to do with the results of that survey.   
Surveys are much like asking a classroom full of young junior high or high school students if they have had sex.  Not many will honestly answer one way or the other especially if asked verbally in a group setting....  and furthermore, they may not answer honestly even in a private setting.

Just my opinion and my experience... others of course may have a different reality.
Danielle

[Devlyn]

Interesting, but it is really not saying much.  85% feel they would rather not date a trans person and believe that they would not do so.  How many of those respondents have experienced anything other than maybe some water cooler discussion of bathrooms and porn?

I thought about this before beginning my journey.  I had concluded I would be content with remaining single as long as I could be wholly me moving forward.  I found quickly that I was not alone and I have found an incredible friend that has become my partner.  We developed our friendship having participating in Yoga, GNO's and spending time together.  It led to what we have now, though she has always shown herself to be that 15%.

I have several people who have expressed interest in dating.  I have known them all for over three years and we are actively platonic friends.  One is male, one trans and one female.  They have all told me they would love to explore where we could go, but they are a little late.  Again, not random respondents from a dating site/app.  I maintain that a majority of that 85% has no idea what "transgender" is at all.

Also consider, .3% of the population could expect 15% of the dating population to show interest.  It is not as bleak as it might initially seem.

Just my 1/5th of a dime.

That .3% number is an outdated reference, the actual number of transgender people is much, much higher.

[Lady Sarah]

Having known the majority felt that way towards trans women, I fully disclosed my status on dating sites. This way, I could weed out those with closed minds. I can understand many men wanted children, and I would never be able to give them any. I am sure that is a consideration in their choices. Still, I have dated several men. And this is in rural Texas!

Never let a study dissuade you from dating. Not everyone out there has negative feelings regarding trans individuals.

[ainsley]

"To assess differences across sexual identity, participants were grouped into three categories: gay/lesbian, heterosexual/straight, bisexual/queer/two-spirit. Those identifying as queer, bisexual or two-spirit were most likely to indicate a willingness to date trans individuals (55.2%), followed by gay men and lesbian women (23.9%), and finally, heterosexual men and women (3.1%)."

Interesting.

[kaitylynn]

Hey Devlyn!  You are right about that.  I was asking my therapist about that the other day and she said that she felt is it accurate only when 1/3 of 1% is applied to actively transitioning beyond experimental HRT.  Is she correct?  Doubt it, though we will only ever be able to guess at our true numbers.  That would still be 1,000,000 persons in the US alone. 

[Maybebaby56]

I thought about this before beginning my journey.  I had concluded I would be content with remaining single as long as I could be wholly me moving forward. 

Amen, sister. As I have stated elsewhere, I would much rather be a 60 year-old transsexual woman than a 60 year-old cis-male.   

I found quickly that I was not alone and I have found an incredible friend that has become my partner.  We developed our friendship having participating in Yoga, GNO's and spending time together.  It led to what we have now, though she has always shown herself to be that 15%.

That is wonderful!  I have not been quite as fortunate, but I can say I have more friends now than I did as a cis-male. In particular I have a lot more female friends.

I maintain that a majority of that 85% has no idea what "transgender" is at all.

Hear hear! Truer words were never spoken!

Thank you all for your wonderful responses!

With kindness,

Terri

[Allison S]

I'm not the most passing trans woman (I really don't make an effort to be) and I get attention. I'd say men show it more and can be direct but women are just as good flirts. I honestly think "trans" is a caricture in most people's eyes.
Be outisde the box and be yourself, that's going to make life a lot better to live. Because these numbers don't mean much...

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